64 replies to this topic

[Chaos7]

I think you need an introduction in-game Tutorial with tips where you shoot at moving and get objectives like "Shoot target at A with your AC5 while following the Blue line" etc. for new Pilots. Otherwise you will confuse and frustrate the new K2 Cat pilot who is trying to shoot at the peaks above him with his hands-mounted PPCs that for some reason don't move up.

Makes sense ?

[Waverider]

About joysticks:

We need PROPORTIONAL control of the torso. Proportional control means: Full joystick movement = full torso movement, 50% joystick movement = 50% torso movement. Release the stick and the torso is back to center. This alows fine adjustment to the aim, like it was on MW3.

Right now the torso movement emulates a mouse with is not good for joystick control as the center have the worst precision on any joystick. This kills any advantage with the joystick.

Thanks for the analog turning by the way

Edited by Waverider, 13 March 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[Murku]

Bah.

I pleaded the cause for a Feedback thread re: these proposed new controls, with some valid queries, and we get a bunch of prats open with pointless whining. Way to go.

Throttle Decay? Does slapping it in reverse (press S maxes neg 100%) break us harder, does zeroing throttle first still do anything?

SHIFT toggling Arm Lock, does this mean our screen then centres on Arm recticle ala current SHIFT function?

But hey, who's gonna bother reading that after the first page of whinging?

If your contribution to this thread about totally OPTIONAL features is to say you're going to leave them disabled there's really no great need to let us know.

Edited by Murku, 13 March 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[Butane9000]

At first I thought I wouldn't like it because it sounded like it was being forced. But then I read about the toggling and I love it. Great job devs!

[GaussDragon]

I think the arm/torso locking is a good idea. My one complaint is that it should be a toggle, not a hold button. If it's a hold-down to keep active, a lot of players with more sophisticated setups are simply going to bind macros that hold the button down while the have-nots are going to be stuck with holding the actual button.

[TheForce]

Regarding arm lock.

Wasn't the original purpose of having different arm and torso cross-hairs to decrease the group fire, pin point accuracy, and concentrated damage of direct fire weapons?

I think a better option for us to disable one of the two crosshairs. For example, my CN9-A doesn't mount arm weapons, so I can disable the arm cross hair.

[GaussDragon]

Thontor, on 13 March 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

There is a toggle in the controls setup screen, which will be available during a match.

The hold down toggle is just for when you temporarily want to use he opposite of what is toggled in the setup screen.

Ah, I see. Thank you.

[Squigles]

Yay for extra options! I won't be using them, but...meh.

In regards to the arm/torso lock function though, I think when using the lock while firing arm and torso mount weapons at the same time, it should add in some very small degree of shot randomization. This would help to simulate the difficulty in lining up both reticules at the exact same spot in a brawl that we have with the current set up.

If arm and torso weapons aren't fired at the same time though, or the lock function isn't used, then everything should keep on firing as is.

[Ian Torlan]

I like the options that they are adding, but they are still lacking one vital feature to enable true control customization for joystick, and keyboard, players: the ability to clear out a binding. This is a basic function of an editable control scheme and it's very strange it still isn't available.

[Jetfire]

Waverider, on 13 March 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

About joysticks:

We need PROPORTIONAL control of the torso. Proportional control means: Full joystick movement = full torso movement, 50% joystick movement = 50% torso movement. Release the stick and the torso is back to center. This alows fine adjustment to the aim, like it was on MW3.

Right now the torso movement emulates a mouse with is not good for joystick control as the center have the worst precision on any joystick. This kills any advantage with the joystick.

Thanks for the analog turning by the way

Yeah, I am glad this step is done, but really I need this as well. It makes no sense to use the JS like a mouse and it blows the advantage of muscle memory a joystick brings. It may not be as precise as a mouse, but I can remember where to put the stick to aim at a specific direction off my mech rather than everything being relative to where I looked last.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Jetfire, on 13 March 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Yeah, I am glad this step is done, but really I need this as well. It makes no sense to use the JS like a mouse and it blows the advantage of muscle memory a joystick brings. It may not be as precise as a mouse, but I can remember where to put the stick to aim at a specific direction off my mech rather than everything being relative to where I looked last.

Your control scheme will result in less fine control and is counter intuitive. The current scheme mimics normal control function of vehicles & aircraft in that lack of input does not result in an automatic counter input to "center".

Remember that you are piloting a mech and are not actually being the mech.

Murku, on 13 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Bah.

I pleaded the cause for a Feedback thread re: these proposed new controls, with some valid queries, and we get a bunch of prats open with pointless whining. Way to go.

Throttle Decay? Does slapping it in reverse (press S maxes neg 100%) break us harder, does zeroing throttle first still do anything?

SHIFT toggling Arm Lock, does this mean our screen then centres on Arm recticle ala current SHIFT function?

But hey, who's gonna bother reading that after the first page of whinging?

If your contribution to this thread about totally OPTIONAL features is to say you're going to leave them disabled there's really no great need to let us know.

There will be no performance enhancement with the new throttle controls. Your mech will take exactly the same amount of time to accelerate or stop. The only difference is how long you have to hold the button down to do so.

Arm lock will lock the arm reticle and torso reticle together, so no more independent arm aiming for the wider range of movement that arms have.

TheForce, on 13 March 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Regarding arm lock.

Wasn't the original purpose of having different arm and torso cross-hairs to decrease the group fire, pin point accuracy, and concentrated damage of direct fire weapons?

I think a better option for us to disable one of the two crosshairs. For example, my CN9-A doesn't mount arm weapons, so I can disable the arm cross hair.

The purpose is to allow you to utilize the wider range of movement arms have over torso weapons along with much faster tracking speed. Has nothing to do with group firing or accuracy.

Edited by Bubba Wilkins, 13 March 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Waverider]

Bubba Wilkins, on 13 March 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Your control scheme will result in less fine control and is counter intuitive. The current scheme mimics normal control function of vehicles & aircraft in that lack of input does not result in an automatic counter input to "center".

Remember that you are piloting a mech and are not actually being the mech.

....

At an aircraft when the stick is back to center the command surface is back to center as it should be on my Mech too. When I pilot my RC airplane the center of the stick is the center of the control surface, etc. The center of my car's steering wheel is when my car is going strait, etc. etc. etc. Counter intuitive is the way it is now and is also very bad for precision - as I said, the center is really bad for that and is not possible to do fine and quick adjustments.

If I hold the joystick on a certain position is pretty quick and precise to do the adjustments - TRY MW3 for example see what I mean. I hold my joystick on 50% torso and naturally do small adjustments due to terrain, enemy speed, ballistics, etc. The way it is now this is IMPOSSIBLE because of the dead center of any joystick. I need to counter the higher force of the centering springs, I need to surpass the dead center and then is to late or the movement is too big, the enemy is already gone and I lost the timing for the shot.

[Huoshini]

Simulator mode would be a great option to be able to toggle.

The mech boot up sequence.could be.tied to keyboard functions and a timing mechanisim to activate for those of us who want the added simulation aspect of the game.

Arm lock should be a toggle to give new players the ability to turn it on early and old players who want to utilize arm lock on and off. Both are usefull in certain circumstances.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Waverider, on 13 March 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

At an aircraft when the stick is back to center the command surface is back to center as it should be on my Mech too. When I pilot my RC airplane the center of the stick is the center of the control surface, etc. The center of my car's steering wheel is when my car is going strait, etc. etc. etc. Counter intuitive is the way it is now and is also very bad for precision - as I said, the center is really bad for that and is not possible to do fine and quick adjustments.

If I hold the joystick on a certain position is pretty quick and precise to do the adjustments - TRY MW3 for example see what I mean. I hold my joystick on 50% torso and naturally do small adjustments due to terrain, enemy speed, ballistics, etc. The way it is now this is IMPOSSIBLE because of the dead center of any joystick. I need to counter the higher force of the centering springs, I need to surpass the dead center and then is to late or the movement is too big, the enemy is already gone and I lost the timing for the shot.

When you roll your RC plane on it's edge, it does not roll back unless you provide the counter input. Your mech is no different. Your torso is not a control surface, the waist line is. The issue you have is that proportional/graduated input is not implemented for joysticks. You either have 0 movement or 100% speed.

[Victor Morson]

Basically I think it's a bad idea to teach newbies to not use their arms or to treat arm movement as "advanced." Arm movement is a KEY thing to MW:O, even if it is confusing to people who first join. It should be explained in a tutorial NOT just turned off by default.

That said, for advanced users, the toggle button is awesome and well welcomed.

[zverofaust]

I just came to ask for my credit.

http://mwomercs.com/...control-toggle/

zverofaust, on 13 December 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Please give us the ability to toggle arm control on/off, so I can slave my arms to my torso's movement rather than having them whizz around uselessly making any combination of torso/arm weapons a complete detriment.

Edited by zverofaust, 13 March 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Waverider]

Bubba Wilkins, on 13 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

When you roll your RC plane on it's edge, it does not roll back unless you provide the counter input. Your mech is no different. Your torso is not a control surface, the waist line is. The issue you have is that proportional/graduated input is not implemented for joysticks. You either have 0 movement or 100% speed.

Yes, I know. But the system they are currently using is very bad in terms of accuracy because most of the time the joystick is in the center point where accuracy is horrible. In practice makes using joysticks impossible or at least very bad. I think you do not have the habit of playing with joystics or never tried to use them in MWO.

And if you preffer joystick with the current crappy "proportional speed" control you can choose this option. I will stick with the proportional position witch is much more precise. I can control the speed with the speed of my movement. As we do with the mouse. The mouse is position proportional and the speed is proportional to the speed we move the mouse AS IT SHOULD BE WITH THE JOYSTICK.

Imagine this: if the mouse control only the speed of the movement (as the joystick is today) and not the position... what crappy control we would have,

Edited by Waverider, 13 March 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[F lan Ker]

S!

I am glad the analog turn is coming in. At last the pedals are a viable control method and getting better precision + smoother movements. I hope they could implement proper axis configuration so you could make profiles for the stick you use, not all respond the same or not all players want same sensitivity or response curve.

If some day the arms could be controlled with TrackIR aka free look. Then it would be great. I could aim and fire my arm weapons where I look and if something is crossing torso cross hairs then blast that too. Pretty much got used to TrackIR in my flight simming, a must there really.

Anyways, good news on better controller support. Arm locking should be defaulted as OFF though.

[Mr 144]

F lan Ker, on 13 March 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

S!

I am glad the analog turn is coming in. At last the pedals are a viable control method and getting better precision + smoother movements. I hope they could implement proper axis configuration so you could make profiles for the stick you use, not all respond the same or not all players want same sensitivity or response curve.

If some day the arms could be controlled with TrackIR aka free look. Then it would be great. I could aim and fire my arm weapons where I look and if something is crossing torso cross hairs then blast that too. Pretty much got used to TrackIR in my flight simming, a must there really.

Anyways, good news on better controller support. Arm locking should be defaulted as OFF though.

Exactly what I was eluding to earlier. It has more implications than just firing however. Really using 'shield' arms as shields for example. Protecting a damaged side torso while still staying on target with the arms. There's many examples of how this would be useful. TrackIR for dedicated arm control is probablly the best example of control schemes. Ideally, a full SIM pit would look like this...

Foot Pedals: Turning/toe JJs
Throttle: Self-explanatory
Joystick: Torso
TrackIR: Arms

I believe this is the only way a non-mouse setup can be competetive. Mice are more precise to be sure, but the control capabilities of simultaneous axis control could make up for this in the hands of a skilled SIM pilot. It's a hella-cool submersion factor regardless

Mr 144

[F lan Ker]

S!

Exactly my thoughts Mr 144 It would be perfect as I have already configured most used options to my throttle and joystick buttons, do not need to touch keyboard unless putting something in chat. Just the immersion if you had support for TrackIR and stuff, to be able to really "drive" the Mech as it should be. Can always dream...