448 replies to this topic

[Sheraf]

Why follow you when you can't peak like us Stalker . I follow the medium

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Onmyoudo, on 13 March 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

An Atlas is a damage soak. It has the most armour, it has the most durability and in a lot of cases it has ECM. If you are not soaking damage, you are not doing your job. Did you get 600 damage? Great. Did you get 2 kills? Well done. Did the rest of your team die because they got alpha struck to death while you were playing coy buggers in the buildings? Then you're next, bucko, and the game has been lost. If you're winning, then it's likely because someone else has been soaking up the damage that you should have been sharing.

Due to the nature of how MWO works, an Atlas is always needed on the front lines. Massive burst damage and concentrated fire can and will annihilate members of your team that, if able to actually fire their weapons (perhaps due to the enemy team instead firing at the large 100 ton behemoth striding towards them) will allow your team to do more damage overall than you alone can manage. 400 + 400 is better than the 600 you will do by yourself.

Your Atlas is not an LRM boat. Get a Catapult. Your Atlas is not a sniper. Get a Stalker. If you want to use those weapons, by all means do so - on your way towards the battle lines. Your mech is one of the most important in any game you play and you must use its strengths to help your team succeed. Because it is your team that is important - if you yourself get blown up with only 200 damage done, but succeed in drawing enough fire to let your team win the match, then your role has been fulfilled and you can congratulate yourself on a job well done. That is your purpose. Start doing it.



Disclaimer: a Stalker could also arguably fill this role, but for several obvious reasons is not as effective.

Wrong... the atlas is not a damage soak. No mech is a "Damage soak" mech.

Things that apply in DOTA and LOL and MMO's don't apply with battletech. Yes the mech has the most armor of any of the other mechs, but that does not immedately relegate the mech to "Damage soak" mode.

also the "in most cases has ECM" also wrong, only the D-DC variant has ECM, none of the other's have ECM capability.

Mechs have a variety of ways to be configured, saying that a mech "is not" something is somewhat wrong. All mechs have an "Intended Role." that of the Atlas is usually heavy brawler, heavy damage dealer, and possibly Long Range DFS[direct fire support] or simply a long range support mech due to it's slow speed.

An Atlas D with 2 large lasers, 2 medium lasers, and LRM10 and SRM6 pack, isn't exactly going to be made for being up close and in the fight right off the bat, you're going to utilize those LRM's to do some armor damage to choice targets while advancing, your scouts should be providing you ample targeting information to allow you to rain your LRM's on said choice targets. As you move into line of sight, you'll begin utilizing the Large Lasers, carving armor away as you continue to advance. By this point the lights and mediums have probably already initiated the major fighting... AS they should have been doing! Once the heavy's and Assaults make it up to the line, the Lights and Mediums should disengage and pull back behind these heavier units, being skirmishers and capitalizing apon the additional firepower being brought to bear by these heavier units.

Also now that the Atlas is up on the front lines, THEN it is probably a target of priority by the enemy team.

However this doesn't always follow... for instance, a 6ppc stalker or a 6srm6 A1 cat is a much bigger threat than ANY atlas on the field.

Combat is a liquid situation, always changing, and no, the Atlas should not, 100% of the time, be on the front lines. You're bad, and you should feel bad.

[Royalewithcheese]

You mean that "guy who gets shot" isn't a viable combat role?

[Garbagecan]

I think the Atlas has potential to soak damage for a limited time if used tactically. I don't think its a good idea to stroll out into the open thinking that that Atlas can tank for you because it can't, but if your team needs a position but has to run in the open for like 10 seconds, the atlas could step out and give some cover fire with less risk then anybody else and then duck back into cover.
On the other hand, a Atlas can do a lot of damage, so when i'm playing I try to keep my assaults alive. More of a question of can i take down a opposing atlas with my tbt, or does the atlas have a better chance at that? I guess that depends on how the Atlas is loaded out too.

[Malora Sidewinder]

that atlas' survivability is what makes it so versatile. every atlas build has the potential to do something different... other than fast strike/flanker.

an atlas doesn't have to soak up damage and act as a meatshield. that can be one use, yes... but an atlas entering the battlefield fresh while everyone else has already been engaged is probably the most frightening mech on the field... much more so than the stalker or awesome.

the stalker can put out higher damage, true. but after just a few shots the stalker's weaponry is cut in HALF at minimum, and half of a stalker is hardly scary to anything bigger than a light.

an atlas is under no such compunction. it's weaponry remains online until the engine fails.

[Sierra19]

Well, the normal Atlas is a straight up brawler, and I run my AS-7D with the "stock" weapons, plus Artemis, endo, AMD, and DHS. I fire my LRM20, as I plod along to the fight, you know, the one where the fast mediums and heavies tie down the enemy team with H&I fire, then when I get there, I wade in with the SRM 6, ML, and AC20, and generally start to wreck things. I never get a lot of kills to begin with, and when I do, it's usually one or two in an assault class, but usually I get a bunch of assists.

[Grisnir]

play the Atlas as brawler they said, you will be usefull for your team they said .. bäm Alpine while the enemy team has a lot of long range mechs

a good LRM Atlas is like a Mother ship swarmed by medium and heavys. you will greet the enemy with LRM hail while your buddies swarm out and kill the tenderized enemys and a Gauss/ERPPC/ERLL a great for fire suppression for enemy longe range mechs (a stalker will seek cover when it got hit multiple times by 2 ERPPCs)

[Stoicblitzer]

Atlases are like "You go fight then I'll come in."
Everyone else is like "Atlas, you go fight then I'll come in."

sigh

[Vahnn]

While agree with you, OP, and I think you're 100% correct, I think this perfect scenario in which I (in my Atlas) waltz into the front line and start blasting fools while drawing enemy fire so my team can charge in/flank and destroy the enemy happens...oh, let's say 20% of the time.

The other 80% of the time is me wading into combat while my team a) sits on their arse, or decide to go squirrel chasing (aka light chasing).  There is also scenario c) I am the only assault on my team and everyone else runs as fast as their engines can carry them directly into the frontlines to start blasting the first red blip that appears on their screen.

All 3 situations result in me being alone and my team losing the match.  And it's infuriating.
EDIT:  I actually only agree with you 90%...  I think it is sensible to equip an LRM and/or an ER PPC or LL or ER LL to be able to do at least some damage while you make your way into battle.  You can't just engage at close range in every situation, especially on maps like Alpine, or even Forest Colony, or..  Or on ANY map.  Say you and your team take out the 3 impatient enemies who decided to rush Kappa, and now...  the next enemy is 2 Trebs and an Awesome at 800m away lobbing LRMs and PPCs at you.  Good luck being useful with 4x ML and an AC/20 and SRMs.
But yes, in a team fight, you need to "tank," Atlases!

Edited by Vahnn, 13 March 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[Zordicron]

Onmyoudo, on 13 March 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

An Atlas is a damage soak. It has the most armour, it has the most durability and in a lot of cases it has ECM. If you are not soaking damage, you are not doing your job. Did you get 600 damage? Great. Did you get 2 kills? Well done. Did the rest of your team die because they got alpha struck to death while you were playing coy buggers in the buildings? Then you're next, bucko, and the game has been lost. If you're winning, then it's likely because someone else has been soaking up the damage that you should have been sharing.

Due to the nature of how MWO works, an Atlas is always needed on the front lines. Massive burst damage and concentrated fire can and will annihilate members of your team that, if able to actually fire their weapons (perhaps due to the enemy team instead firing at the large 100 ton behemoth striding towards them) will allow your team to do more damage overall than you alone can manage. 400 + 400 is better than the 600 you will do by yourself.

Your Atlas is not an LRM boat. Get a Catapult. Your Atlas is not a sniper. Get a Stalker. If you want to use those weapons, by all means do so - on your way towards the battle lines. Your mech is one of the most important in any game you play and you must use its strengths to help your team succeed. Because it is your team that is important - if you yourself get blown up with only 200 damage done, but succeed in drawing enough fire to let your team win the match, then your role has been fulfilled and you can congratulate yourself on a job well done. That is your purpose. Start doing it.



Disclaimer: a Stalker could also arguably fill this role, but for several obvious reasons is not as effective.

I have been saying this for quite some time! LRM boat Atlas, you stink!

RockWolf, on 13 March 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Atlas pilots... I hate you. You stay in cover and wait. I shoot, I move and I keep the enemy busy.

Next time you run LRM's, I will team kill you. Your job is not stay at base and Lrm people. Its to smack the enemy and push their lines.

Please be useful for the team.

Sincerely yours,

A cataphract pilot.

Here here!

Dornhal, on 13 March 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

As an Atlas pilot that does charge in and take fire, I would like to say.

Dear team, when I say we are charging this position, and you are all following me, as soon as someone shoots a small laser at you, don't KITTENING RUN AWAY,

I got your back. I dont run, I make them pay! You take the hit and I will AC20/dual PPC their face from alongside!

Scryed, on 13 March 2013 - 01:50 AM, said:

Yup main reason why I sling missiles, I am too dang slow to do an effective rush , and people always leave me behind, so I will do like everyone else, PLAY LIKE I WANT TO.

Then you should buy a catapult! or a Stalker! Or even an Awesome! they all do it better, and can move to high ground easier to do it!

Tombe0, on 13 March 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

You might want to thank me sitting back (few) hundred meters next time I alpha the leg off of that annoying commando circling you and nibbling you to death.

An Atlas sitting back from the main scuffle doesn't mean the pilot doesn't know what he's doing... Most likely he knows far better what he's doing than you ever think.

It's true that an Atlas is a terrifying sight, but it comes with a dire cost too: You're a target the size of a mountain, and EVERYBODY, I mean absolutely everybody wants to kill an Atlas.

So next time you start foaming at mouth for that Atlas pilot staying a bit back, remember that he migth be the only thing keeping YOU alive because he stays back and uses his superior range to advantage.

Note: ALL my Atlas builds have now gone from closerange brawlers to sniper builds with ERPPCs / ERLLs / LRMs since the lag spike fixes

Then you should be piloting PPC Stalker! They dont have wasted ballistic hardpoints!

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

I'm going to say this cause as an Atlas pilot nothing, absolutely NOTHING makes me angrier than when I spearhead an assault on on an enemy position with team consensus and support then my team-mates scatter and leave me in an untenable, unrecoverable situation. I'm fully aware that you should never over-commit to an assault when you move so slowly and have no recourse to retreat but being left out to dry. Take heed all you lesser mech pilots. Support your assaut mechs or accept skirmish battles once they're dead!

[Zordicron]

Sierra19, on 13 March 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Well, the normal Atlas is a straight up brawler, and I run my AS-7D with the "stock" weapons, plus Artemis, endo, AMD, and DHS. I fire my LRM20, as I plod along to the fight, you know, the one where the fast mediums and heavies tie down the enemy team with H&I fire, then when I get there, I wade in with the SRM 6, ML, and AC20, and generally start to wreck things. I never get a lot of kills to begin with, and when I do, it's usually one or two in an assault class, but usually I get a bunch of assists.

You are doing it right! I applaud you! I am that guy shooting the stuff shooting you.

[Zordicron]

Jade Kitsune, on 13 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Wrong... the atlas is not a damage soak. No mech is a "Damage soak" mech.

Things that apply in DOTA and LOL and MMO's don't apply with battletech. Yes the mech has the most armor of any of the other mechs, but that does not immedately relegate the mech to "Damage soak" mode.

also the "in most cases has ECM" also wrong, only the D-DC variant has ECM, none of the other's have ECM capability.

Mechs have a variety of ways to be configured, saying that a mech "is not" something is somewhat wrong. All mechs have an "Intended Role." that of the Atlas is usually heavy brawler, heavy damage dealer, and possibly Long Range DFS[direct fire support] or simply a long range support mech due to it's slow speed.

An Atlas D with 2 large lasers, 2 medium lasers, and LRM10 and SRM6 pack, isn't exactly going to be made for being up close and in the fight right off the bat, you're going to utilize those LRM's to do some armor damage to choice targets while advancing, your scouts should be providing you ample targeting information to allow you to rain your LRM's on said choice targets. As you move into line of sight, you'll begin utilizing the Large Lasers, carving armor away as you continue to advance. By this point the lights and mediums have probably already initiated the major fighting... AS they should have been doing! Once the heavy's and Assaults make it up to the line, the Lights and Mediums should disengage and pull back behind these heavier units, being skirmishers and capitalizing apon the additional firepower being brought to bear by these heavier units.

Also now that the Atlas is up on the front lines, THEN it is probably a target of priority by the enemy team.

However this doesn't always follow... for instance, a 6ppc stalker or a 6srm6 A1 cat is a much bigger threat than ANY atlas on the field.

Combat is a liquid situation, always changing, and no, the Atlas should not, 100% of the time, be on the front lines. You're bad, and you should feel bad.

You are wrong. When an Atlas is taking the heat, the rest of the team should be dispatching the heavy or med mechs trying to get their shots in at the big boy. If the atlas dies, and the team has done its job, the atlas team should be up by 2 or 3 mechs, and the rest is clean up.
When fatlas stands in back shooting twin LRM 20's with 1800 rounds into hills at enemy 400m betyond max range, then Atlas driver lost the match for his team. Atlas does not need to be a brawling tank, but it needs to be with the team in the chaos. Want to snipe or boat? buy a stalker or a catapult.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Eldagore, on 13 March 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

When fatlas stands in back shooting twin LRM 20's with 1800 rounds into hills at enemy 400m betyond max range, then Atlas driver lost the match for his team. Atlas does not need to be a brawling tank, but it needs to be with the team in the chaos. Want to snipe or boat? buy a stalker or a catapult.

Ahh, Fatlas... love that term.

If an atlas pilot is doing what you discribe here. "Standing in the back shooting twin LRM20's with 1800 rounds into hills at enemy's 400m beyond max range..."

Well I think we can all agree that the obvious problem is a crappy pilot, and not a matter of the Atlas' intended role.

So no, I am not wrong in this instance, nor have you brought any actual proof to the table as to why what I say does not stand.

please try again.

Edited by Jade Kitsune, 13 March 2013 - 09:09 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Eldagore, on 13 March 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

You are wrong. When an Atlas is taking the heat, the rest of the team should be dispatching the heavy or med mechs trying to get their shots in at the big boy.

You know, even if "getting shot at" was a viable combat role, the undisputed ruler of that role is something a little bit... lighter.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 13 March 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[ZealotTheFallen]

All this talk about helping your atlas out. Well you do not have a team: maybe 4. Pugs dont get a rats arse about you so you will die as I in my stalker with lrms and 5 meds for my own defenes, till team is put back in game live with it. lol team imo is 5-6-7-8

[GalaxyBluestar]

thread wins crazy award for the most passionate outburst of i'm right you're wrong stratagists discussion.

[Novakaine]

Thats whats wrong with this freaking game!
If yur a freaking assault mech freaking assault something
Everybody gonna shoot at the Atlas when it comes into view.
That does'nt mean ya have go out and die for the team.
But quit sulking behind buildings only to get swarmed by a bunch of R3L's.
But Jeebus, get out there and assault something.
Jeebus!!!!!

[El Bandito]

What I really want to ask is...

How the hell OP's logic got at least 40 likes? All competent players know that a light mech (preferably with ECM--most likely be a RVN-3L) can effectively draw fire AND survive far better than an Atlas.

2-3 mechs focusing an Atlas will core it in under 5 seconds.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 March 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[Kaziganthi]

Jammerben87, on 13 March 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

The point I'm making is you are the anchor for the team, so if we have an atlas and it sits at the back sniping, we lose a lot of HP up with the fight, which unbalances it in favour of the other team which will probably have an atlas that is willing to get close.

And most times that anchor is left solo whilst 5-6 mechs go an chase a 130kph light and leave said anchor to face the entire opposition solo. Then when said anchor gets blasted to pieces..its omg your hopeless anchor.

edit: also If i'm the tank "WHERES MA HEALZ"..probably hiding in an out of the way corner powered down so his/her fluffy dice don't get vaporised.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 13 March 2013 - 09:58 PM.