448 replies to this topic

[saintchuck]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 March 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

I onlny get mad when they are not shooting when they peek. If they are fighting at all they are doing thair job.

That would draw too much attention to them.

[Drenzul]

Wow, someone clearly doesn't know how to fight from cover.

Or probably how to fight at all....

I use cover when been shot at, I'm still shooting back however..... perhaps you should try this instead of rushing through the open and getting killed then moaning that its all the Altas's fault for not standing in front of your suicidal arse.

Oh and the DDC has lots of short ranged weapons in addition to it's LRM 20 because ITS A C&C mech.... if you had a clue C&C vehicles almost always have lots of short range fire-power for close defense. They don't engage close and brawl because putting your C&C vehicle at extreme risk as well as distracting the person co-ordinating the entire battle is simply ********.

Perhaps you should study some basic military tactics, it might help you actually learn something and not look like an *****.

[Grauluchs]

i know how to use cover. But it is always nice to hear some tips how I should battle.

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

Perhaps you should study some basic military tactics, it might help you actually learn something and not look like an *****.

But maybe you should study some politness instead of pretending to be von Klausewitz. Im fully aware what C&C vehicle are. But are you also aware that most mechs equipted with C3 master Unit later in the timeline depending on long range weapons?

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

Oh and the DDC has lots of short ranged weapons in addition to it's LRM 20 because ITS A C&C mech.... if you had a clue C&C vehicles almost always have lots of short range fire-power for close defense. They don't engage close and brawl because putting your C&C vehicle at extreme risk as well as distracting the person co-ordinating the entire battle is simply ********.

Equip the mech with close range weapons to never use them? awesome logic here. If you dont want to endanger your C&C than keep it in the dropship.

Edited by Grauluchs, 16 March 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[Xando Parapasu]

saintchuck, on 16 March 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

That would draw too much attention to them.

Now you're just being sarcastic.

[Drenzul]

lol, you have NO room to talk about politeness, Mr. Only play the builds I want or I'll try to sabotage your game.

[Grauluchs]

yeah but Im not calling other names because I dont like them, mr hero of the MWO

Thats not what I said. I dint say you have to play the builds I want. I said what I think and how I handle the ECM DDC LRM without demanding anything. I even said its fine by me, do what you want, because I have my own way handling them. So please stop accusing me of being you. I accept your DDC ECM LRM Build, but I dont support it or expect anythig usefull from them( well maybe to be a decoy). In matter of switching between targets or avoiding to push "R". Im not obliged to provide you any scoutinformation as you are not obliged to stick with the team and provide Armor, Firepower and ECM umbrella.

Its not sabotage its called passive resistance with a tiny bit of having fun myself.

Edited by Grauluchs, 16 March 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Anton Shiningstar]

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

yeah but Im not calling other names because I dont like them, mr hero of the MWO

Thats not what I said. I dint say you have to play the builds I want. I said what I think and how I handle the ECM DDC LRM without demanding anything. I even said its fine by me, do what you want, because I have my own way handling them. So please stop accusing me of being you. I accept your DDC ECM LRM Build, but I dont support it or expect anythig usefull from them( well maybe to be a decoy). In matter of switching between targets or avoiding to push "R". Im not obliged to provide you any scoutinformation as you are not obliged to stick with the team and provide Armor, Firepower and ECM umbrella.

Its not sabotage its called passive resistance with a tiny bit of having fun myself.

So you will cut your nose off to spite your face? An ECmed Missile boat is a good thing ot have, and one that can carry 3 LRM15s is very useful if the team fights cohesively. At least he is willing to work with his team. An Atlas can provide Armor, direct or indirect fire support, or a combination of the three. If you expect someone to play the game by your perception then maybe you should be the soak if that is how you want it done. Anti-Social generals... how quaint.

Edited by Anton Shiningstar, 16 March 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[Drenzul]

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

yeah but Im not calling other names because I dont like them, mr hero of the MWO

Thats not what I said. I dint say you have to play the builds I want. I said what I think and how I handle the ECM DDC LRM without demanding anything. I even said its fine by me, do what you want, because I have my own way handling them. So please stop accusing me of beeing you. I accept your DDC ECM LRM Build, but I dont support it. Its aclled passive resistance with a tiny bit of having fun myself.

I'm not calling you names, I'm stating facts, you are acting like a spoilt child.
Oh and thats not called 'passive resistance', you ARE demanding they don't play LRM atlases or you'll screw up their game.
In the real-world thats called Blackmail. If you said to an colleague (Not a sub-ordinate) "Do your job like this or I'll **** up your job for you", would you find that acceptable? Because that is EXACTLY the same as what you are doing here.

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Equip the mech with close range weapons to never use them? awesome logic here. If you dont want to endanger your C&C than keep it in the dropship.

Short ranged weapons for close defense perhaps. DUH..... They do get used when the C&C boat gets attacked.
Keep your C&C mech in the drop-ship where it can't C&C.... wow great plan!!!!!

Notice how the later C&C boats use weapons that can be used as LR support AND as close range defense?

[Grauluchs]

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

I'm not calling you name

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

Ok, time to correct some idiots I think.

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

That is simply been an *****

?

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Oh and thats not called 'passive resistance', you ARE demanding they don't play LRM atlases or you'll screw up their game.

In the real-world thats called Blackmail. If you said to an colleague (Not a sub-ordinate) "Do your job like this or I'll **** up your job for you", would you find that acceptable? Because that is EXACTLY the same as what you are doing here.

Wrong.Please quote my demand.

If you calling me to the rooftop wanting to jump down without parachute. Im not telling you to stop or demanding anything or say to consider the gravity. Im saying goodby and take the elevator. Thats EXACTLY what Im doing. well I dont say goodby. I dont persuade others trying to push my opinion on them by calling them *** or childish.

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Short ranged weapons for close defense perhaps. DUH..... They do get used when the C&C boat gets attacked.

Notice how the later C&C boats use weapons that can be used as LR support AND as close range defense?

Short range weapons are nice and dandy but you still dindt tell me why most C3 command equipted mechs rely on long range weapons?
And you are saying it now yourself that the DDC is a short range brawler, command or not.

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Keep your C&C mech in the drop-ship where it can't C&C.... wow great plan!!!!!

Thats what happend in Mechcommander 1 and 2.

You seemed to be interested in TT. Educate yourself a little bit on battletech.

maybe some background about the usage of DS as C&C?

"The Fortress-class Assault DropShip is one of the few true ground assault DropShips capable of ... and C3 capabilities to support it"

"The Conquistador was Federated-Boeing's response to an AFFS requirement for a new command DropShip for their RCTs"

"The number of variants of the Overlord class are too numerous to list....Most notable as an example is the Running Fox, House Davion's flagship, modified to be more luxurious and act as a command post"

Anton Shiningstar, on 16 March 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

So you will cut your nose off to spite your face? An ECmed Missile boat is a good thing ot have, and one that can carry 3 LRM15s is very useful if the team fights cohesively. At least he is willing to work with his team. An Atlas can provide Armor, direct or indirect fire support, or a combination of the three. If you expect someone to play the game by your perception then maybe you should be the soak if that is how you want it done. Anti-Social generals... how quaint.

You call it the will to work as team, Im calling it leaching of your team and making them do the dirty work. But thats just my opinion. Im dont demand you to change your pov or call you stupid because you willingly let him use you. I dont deamnd anything or pretending to be the prophet of the MWO with the only legit truth to be told. Or for example expecting those who dont want to be my puppets to stop thinking on their own and be my social little bees.

I'm not antisocial. I'm just picky with my companions and don't eat **** I've been served with a smile on my face.

Edited by Grauluchs, 16 March 2013 - 07:53 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

it can carry the most big weapons

The Atlas can't though. The Stalker carries the most big weapons aside from ballistics which are inferior to missile and energy weapons anyway.

Quote

As for not being able to jobs better than others... That is the DEVs fault! An Atlas should be able to carry the most of any weapons in the game.nearly half the platform's mass can be dedicated to weapons for crying out loud! We should be able to mount 2 PPCs and 2 Gauss and make this monster as fierce as a Devastator! Lets see a heavy do that effectively!

And I completely agree. One of the major failings of the Atlas is its lack of weapon hardpoints. It only gets 1 hardpoint per every 12.5 tons. A Stalker gets 1 hardpoint per 8.5 tons. A Raven gets 1 hardpoint per 7 tons. Why does the Atlas get such low hardpoints per tonnage? The Atlas is just not as scary as it should be for a 100 ton mech.

One possible solution could be to introduce the Atlas-S, which is basically an upgraded Atlas-D with double heatsinks and two additional missile hardpoints in the left torso. To balance it somewhat you could remove one of the ballistic hardpoints, give it worse torso twist, and only 1 module. So it would have 4 energy, 4 missile, and 1 ballistic. At least then we would have an Atlas that could go head-to-head with a Stalker.

Edited by Khobai, 16 March 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[Drenzul]

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Wrong.Please quote my demand.

The bit where you say you are going to try and screw their game if they don't do what you want.
Thats effectively a demand/Blackmail.

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

If you calling me to the rooftop wanting to jump down without parachute. Im not telling you to stop or demanding anything or say to consider the gravity. Im saying goodby and take the elevator. Thats EXACTLY what Im doing. well I dont say goodby. I dont persuade others trying to push my opinion on them by calling them *** or childish.

No, you aren't saying good-bye, an actual comparable scenario would be someone jumping WITH a parachute and you sabotaging the said parachute because you want them to talk the elevator. You don't like what they are doing so you attempt to screw them over. You are making an active attempt to hurt them.

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Short range weapons are nice and dandy but you still dindt tell me why most C3 command equipted mechs rely on long range weapons?
And you are saying it now yourself that the DDC is a short range brawler, command or not.

Do you have problems reading English? Short-ranged weapons do not make a brawler. A great example of this is the SRM stalker or splat cat. They are not brawlers, they are short ranged fire-support mechs. Same with C&C mechs, they generally carry long range weapons so they can provide fire-support without engaging directly as well as short ranged weapons so they can defend themselves since in ANY real battle, the enemy commander is probably the most valuable target on the battlefield.

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Thats what happend in Mechcommander 1 and 2.

You seemed to be interested in TT. Educate yourself a little bit on battletech.

maybe some background about the usage of DS as C&C?

"The Fortress-class Assault DropShip is one of the few true ground assault DropShips capable of ... and C3 capabilities to support it"

"The Conquistador was Federated-Boeing's response to an AFFS requirement for a new command DropShip for their RCTs"

"The number of variants of the Overlord class are too numerous to list....Most notable as an example is the Running Fox, House Davion's flagship, modified to be more luxurious and act as a command post"

WTF do drop-shops/war-ships have to do with Mech vs Mech battles...... Yes a landed drop-shop can serve as a C&C, some where designed to do exactly that, not sure what that has to do with anything we are talking about.

Not to mention that a single Overlord class drop-ship has a higher BV than any mech.....

.

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

You call it the will to work as team, Im calling it leaching of your team and making them do the dirty work. But thats just my opinion. Im dont demant you to change you pov or call you stupid because you willingly let him use you. I dont deamnd anything or pretending to be the prophet of the MWO with the only legit truth to be told. Or for example expecting those who dont want to be my puppets to stop thinking on their own and be my social little bees.

I'm not antisocial. I'm just picky with my companions and don't eat **** I've been served with a smile on my face.

No, instead of demanding, you are threatening and back-stabbing which is worse and in itself constitutes a demand.

You are the one serving the **** here, not anyone else. You don't like the way someone else chooses to play their Atlas so you are acting like a child because of it.

'Don't do this or I'll hurt you by doing this' IS A DEMAND regardless of how you try to fluff it up.

[Joseph Mallan]

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

You call it the will to work as team, Im calling it leaching of your team and making them do the dirty work. But thats just my opinion. Im dont demand you to change your pov or call you stupid because you willingly let him use you. I dont deamnd anything or pretending to be the prophet of the MWO with the only legit truth to be told. Or for example expecting those who dont want to be my puppets to stop thinking on their own and be my social little bees.

I'm not antisocial. I'm just picky with my companions and don't eat **** I've been served with a smile on my face.

I would call it this cause For a time I had to use only LRMs. With frame rates in single digits, it was the only way to play the game. As a side note. While forced to be a missileboat captain I had lots of opertunities to assist my teammates by raining LRMs on enemy Mechs that were harassing them. it forced the enmy to take cover or die under my persistant rain.

You are short sighted if you think an assault Mech isn't used as a Fire support platform. When and if we get some true Fire Support Assault platforms, what will you complain about? I guess, I am calling you stupid. Because you are refusing to work as a team with the forces you have on hand. There are three assault platforms(Awesome, Stalker, Atlas), all three lend themselves well to Long Range Fire Support as well as Brawling. If you don't support your team, the failure is not your team mates, it's yours.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 March 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[Xenois Shalashaska]

Omni 13, on 16 March 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

If the atlas is hugging cover and the rest of the team isn't there's a problem and it's not the atlas or his pilot



catapults are not the king of LRMs the Stalker is, I have a catapult the only way to challenege a stalker in terms of missle based Firepower is to take the A1 and fill it only with LRMs (which is going to leave you low on pretty low on ammo and make you have a decent chance of being damn neer completely useless if the enemy team has ECM

The stalker is a slow LRM boat. The catapult is a much faster mobile LRM boat. just because it can pack LRM's doesn't mean its effective. The Catapults can launch from 15 to 20 lrms at once. take that in your pipe and smoke it !

[Khobai]

Quote

The stalker is a slow LRM boat

64kph isnt that slow. thats standard catapult speed. plus the stalker is better able to defend itself.

[Grauluchs]

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

The bit where you say you are going to try and screw their game if they don't do what you want.

Thats effectively a demand/Blackmail.

than by any means please quote me. where did I wrote " Do as I say!"?

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

No, you aren't saying good-bye, an actual comparable scenario would be someone jumping WITH a parachute and you sabotaging the said parachute because you want them to talk the elevator. You don't like what they are doing so you attempt to screw them over. You are making an active attempt to hurt them.

I dont sabotage anything. I just dont care state my POV and take another approche. Using the DDC according to my plan. Maybe not in a way he had expected hiding with a armor, LRM and ECM. I dont scew up the game. Im still trying to win, but not in a way the DDC pilot imagined it. Its a game of Individuals fighting for their own ineterst at least in the PUG. He came with the paln to use me as his meatshild/scout, I came with the plan to use him as Ravenmagnet. Maybe selfish, almost as selfish as he is but Im not ashamed of the fact that Im just a random pug for him to be used in a fun game, because I will use him to get my own fun game. He may be usefull as LRM support but Im ejoying the time he bought me with a smile. And by no means was it active. I never shoot them for fun no matter how bad my hands were itching. I just dont do the way they expext me to do.

Now you demand me to change beacase you dont like the way I play? I never demanded you to stop using the LRM DDC. So who is forcing whom?

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Do you have problems reading English? Short-ranged weapons do not make a brawler. A great example of this is the SRM stalker or splat cat. They are not brawlers, they are short ranged fire-support mechs. Same with C&C mechs, they generally carry long range weapons so they can provide fire-support without engaging directly as well as short ranged weapons so they can defend themselves since in ANY real battle, the enemy commander is probably the most valuable target on the battlefield.

Actually some times I do have problems with english, but thanks lord we all are tolerant here. I did understood you. I hope. You said the DDC atlas is a brawler with a single 6 shot LRM20? Ment to hide behind and fearing for his life hoping the enemy will not use PPC, AC or LL at al. Hes doing this because its much more comfortable to sit in a walking oven than do the same job in a DS. and this armor and AC20 are just for scaring jenner pilots. What I say is the DDC is a command mech made for the FRONTline where his armor protects the commander who coordinates the mess while the second Pilot does the steering and fighting. Being present at the Hotspot and doing his Job is the only advantage the Commandconsole have over the DS located C3. but it requiers actualy to be with his Lance and not somewhere else hoping for some lucky shots with the LRM

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

WTF do drop-shops/war-ships have to do with Mech vs Mech battles...... Yes a landed drop-shop can serve as a C&C, some where designed to do exactly that, not sure what that has to do with anything we are talking about.

Not to mention that a single Overlord class drop-ship has a higher BV than any mech.....

Nothing. I just pointe out that you dont know what you are talking about, ridiculing the idea of C&C Dropship. What I did, I showed you that there is already an approach for heavy protected, shieldet from the battlefiel commandcenter and its not a DDC.

Drenzul, on 16 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

No, instead of demanding, you are threatening and back-stabbing which is worse and in itself constitutes a demand.

You are the one serving the **** here, not anyone else. You don't like the way someone else chooses to play their Atlas so you are acting like a child because of it.

'Don't do this or I'll hurt you by doing this' IS A DEMAND regardless of how you try to fluff it up.

I dont admit to backstab anyone at this point . Buuuut backstabbing is a common and legal mean. And you as the "grand strategist" talking big about cover, military, C&C and tactics should know this. If not than please actualy do read some books. Maybe Sun Tzu for the start. Or better Machiavelli.

Dont like it, dont eat it. What I do should not affect your doings. Yeah I dont like the ECM LRM DDC so I´m switching from the "I will saveguard my fatlas even if I die" to the "I should use his fatlas for my advantage". I know Im an egoist while pugging, nothing to be ashamed of. I save my loyality to my team where I know they dont go in the fight just fot their personal gain using me as stepping stone.

I repeat, for the fith time I think. Please quote my actual demand and dont pretend to paraphrasing me. I never ask or expect anything from or even communicate with those DDC. I use them as my own pawn in the game of violent robots.

[GetinmyBellah]

Trying to manage any type of rhyme or reason within pug based games is just plain idiotic. If you want to cry about tactics or strategies then join a Clan, otherwise please stop whining. There are already plenty of trolls and whiners. The jobs are all filled or, in other words; shut up and play

[Grauluchs]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

I would call it this cause For a time I had to use only LRMs. With frame rates in single digits, it was the only way to play the game. As a side note. While forced to be a missileboat captain I had lots of opertunities to assist my teammates by raining LRMs on enemy Mechs that were harassing them. it forced the enmy to take cover or die under my persistant rain.

You are short sighted if you think an assault Mech isn't used as a Fire support platform. When and if we get some true Fire Support Assault platforms, what will you complain about? I guess, I am calling you stupid. Because you are refusing to work as a team with the forces you have on hand. There are three assault platforms(Awesome, Stalker, Atlas), all three lend themselves well to Long Range Fire Support as well as Brawling. If you don't support your team, the failure is not your team mates, it's yours.

Yeah we all have our little computer made problems with low framerates high ping and so on. To make things clear. I love LRM support, but I hate the LRM Atlas ECM combo. Never complaind about frindly fire or LRM generaly.

Im not complaining about other mechs. Its the travesty that is hurting Atlas the one whos infamous in the BT universe. (Ever saw an intro for the MW titels where the only thing the atlas did is staying behind and firing LRMs? Even in the MW5 video the LRMs where just a final blow. With his massive armor and ECM schield staying behind and letting those silly lock providers called "Teammates" do the fight just to show up later and feast on the leftovers. I dont like it and some dont like me using them instead. Thats ok. Its not a popularity contest. Im just stating my point of view without any expectations.

Edited by Grauluchs, 16 March 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Grauluchs, on 16 March 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Im just stating my point of view without any expectations.

Fair enough. Good day.

[Red Plague]

Taemien, on 13 March 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Here we are having yet more people telling others how to play THEIR way.

Here's the facts. The OP is just whining, don't listen to him, play your mechs how you wish to play. Let your score show how effective it is. The OP can't do anything about it except whine. If you want to put LRMs on your Atlas, go for it. If you want to laser boat a Catapult, go crazy. Do what you think is fun.

OP, get off your high horse. If you don't like what teammates take into the fight, then find a group of players to launch with that have what you want them to have, don't expect the community to play the game how YOU think it should be played. Do us a favor and stop whining at the very least about PUGs. Launching in a random PUG means getting random loadouts, deal with it, or go in a premade where you can decide who takes what in what mech.

yep..i agree with you 100%, play how you want weth wat you want . i rebuild my mechs all the time weth deferent weps , that's how i have my fun , and i don't care if you don't like it ,,,

[Drenzul]

You stated you'd deliberately switch targets to cause them to waste missiles.... Missiles which would have hit the enemy.

Thats sabotaging your team. Love how you are changing what you are saying half-way through the conversation.....

A C&C drop-shop is a HELL of a lot different from a C&C Atlas hiding inside a drop-ship which was what you stated.

No, I didn't say the DDC with a LRM 20 is a brawler.... don't know where you got that one from.....

And back-stabbing the enemy is fine, you were talking about back-stabbing your team-mates which is entirely different. Again, attempting to obfuscate the subject....

Oh and BTW for your information, I've spent approx 6 years studying military tactics and history, I've read the Art of War and many other different pieces of literature and they have NOTHING to do with what we were talking about.

Between your mis-quotes and attempts to obfuscate the subject in question, I'm convinced you are trolling.