647 replies to this topic

[Garfuncle]

Quote

we're getting an average damage of 12.9 per missile. Quite a bit higher than the intended 2.5 damage per missile plus splash damage.

So the nature of the SRM/Streak boatig beast is revealed at last. I hope splash is removed, and this severe balance issue is fixed. It explains why SRMs and Streaks are being able to purely out-damage much heavier weapons to the point of absurdity.

[Nightcrept]

Garfuncle, on 15 March 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

So the nature of the SRM/Streak boatig beast is revealed at last. I hope splash is removed, and this severe balance issue is fixed. It explains why SRMs and Streaks are being able to purely out-damage much heavier weapons to the point of absurdity.

Not exactly. This bug doesn't effect all mechs. And the effect is compounded on smaller mechs were the area of effects of each missile can overlap. And the training grounds are borked. The effect in game should be that we take less damage to areas not directly hit but you will still die from the same amount of direct hits. So if you ran a com and a srm-6 hitting you in the chest killed you it still will. But it won't blow off your arms and deal 300 pts of damage.

[mechapenguin]

Great job, Amaris. Doesn't make up for the whole destroying the star league thing, but it's a start.

[Kay Oss]

I am really just not seeing missiles as being overpowered anymore. PPC, Gauss and AC20's are very deadly and everything else is not that far off either. I am seeing a lot of missed shots with locked on missiles vs. real, in-combat moving small mechs (Nevermind still targets in testing grounds). Have you try to take out an assault with SSRMs lately? You'll be there all day.

PPC's to me seem to be the deadliest weapons at the moment, but I am not complaining because not everything has to be a perfect balance.

As for the 2.5 dmg per missile listed damage... How much does that really matter? You are comparing apples to oranges anyway when comparing missiles to lasers to projectiles. You just have to try a weapon for a couple battles and you get a pretty good idea of it's real life effectiveness.

[Phaesphoros]

Side effects of fixing this bug:

• Splat & LRM builds won't top the end-of-round screen with massive dmg any more (no matter whether splash dmg is removed or not).
  
• Mechs with XL won't die as quick from side torso blowing up when SRMs hit CT.
  
• Splatcat still has 90 alpha (maybe + some splash dmg) and can destroy an AS7 in two shots (but it has to hit CT now!).

Edited by Phaesphoros, 15 March 2013 - 04:36 AM.

[Eddy Hawkins]

Kay Oss, on 15 March 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

I am really just not seeing missiles as being overpowered anymore. PPC, Gauss and AC20's are very deadly and everything else is not that far off either. I am seeing a lot of missed shots with locked on missiles vs. real, in-combat moving small mechs (Nevermind still targets in testing grounds). Have you try to take out an assault with SSRMs lately? You'll be there all day.

PPC's to me seem to be the deadliest weapons at the moment, but I am not complaining because not everything has to be a perfect balance.

As for the 2.5 dmg per missile listed damage... How much does that really matter? You are comparing apples to oranges anyway when comparing missiles to lasers to projectiles. You just have to try a weapon for a couple battles and you get a pretty good idea of it's real life effectiveness.

have you read the first few pages of posts? right now a wepon that as listed does 15damage, in one shot, is able to blow the arms off and core a mech. 3 ML also listed as doing 15damage, is only able to bring the armor to red.

there is an issue with splash damage, and while im not suguesting you read all 25pages of posts, at least read the first 3 or so...

Phaesphoros, on 15 March 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

Splatcat still has 90 alpha (maybe + some splash dmg) and can destroy an AS7 in two shots (but it has to hit CT now!).

right now with splash, that 90 alpha splatcat is actuly doing closer to 300pts of damage per volley in alot of cases (EoR screen does not add splash into your damage total)

Edited by Eddy Hawkins, 15 March 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Nightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

I do. I run commandos and ravens. I haven't had any trouble.

I have been one shot once y a splatcat and laughed. Other then that I generally get slowly plinked to death by lasers or not at all.

I run a 6-pack on my 3L and it will brutalise any Commando or Spider with low enough lateral movement for the full volley to hit.

Kay Oss, on 15 March 2013 - 04:22 AM, said:

I am really just not seeing missiles as being overpowered anymore. PPC, Gauss and AC20's are very deadly and everything else is not that far off either. I am seeing a lot of missed shots with locked on missiles vs. real, in-combat moving small mechs (Nevermind still targets in testing grounds). Have you try to take out an assault with SSRMs lately? You'll be there all day.

This is irrelevant. A medium laser does 5 damage to an Atlas and 5 damage to a Commando. An (S)SRM 2 should do 5 damage to an Atlas and 5 damage to a Commando, not 5 and 25.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 15 March 2013 - 05:10 AM.

[ciller]

So what I gather from this thread is that light mechs are going to get even harder to kill after they fix this.... good gods that is going to be terrible.

[Haitchpeasauce]

ciller, on 15 March 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

So what I gather from this thread is that light mechs are going to get even harder to kill after they fix this.... good gods that is going to be terrible.

Why? That 3L with the streaks won't be doing unfair amounts of damage to you either.

LRMs against that light will still be nothing to sneeze at and have the same suppressing effect.

Direct fire weapons will start being the significant factor in taking down a light. They won't change at all.

[Buso Senshi Zelazny]

Thontor, on 15 March 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Only if you are using missiles

This is a pretty huge nerf to the dreaded ECM+SSRM lights though, they won't be nearly as dangerous

Won't be nearly as dangerous to other lights, giving them a fighting chance against ECM+SSRMs, as opposed to a death sentence. If this brings back the laser Jenners, and gives people a reason to pilot the Death's Knell, I am okay with that.

[Wrenchfarm]

ciller, on 15 March 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

So what I gather from this thread is that light mechs are going to get even harder to kill after they fix this.... good gods that is going to be terrible.

Since state rewind I've been just melting lights with LLAS builds. Recently made a 6 LLAS stalker and it can reliably leg or kill a light with one or two good alphas.

At least this way Spiders and other non-ECM lights won't be so completely decimated by streaks and might actually have a fighting chance against the dreaded RVN-3L.

[ciller]

My only problem is that I can alpha my CN9-A 3xsrm6 into the face of a jenner/cicada/raven 3 or 4 times and not kill him. Or clearly shoot them with my AC20 with hits being registered 3-4 times and they just don't die.

Something is wrong with that. Those types of hits with that type of damage should devastate a light, yet they don't. It may be due to some sort of lag shield still but it frustrates me when I get the perfect shot with a major weapon on a light, it registers on the reticule as a hit and yet nothing really happens to the light, maybe a bit of yellowing in the armor. SO FRUSTRATING!

I know that has nothing to do with this threads bug fix, other then the srm's will do even less damage now, right? Which means they might survive 5-6 salvos to the face now.

(In training grounds the lights die instantly more or less to 1 or 2 shots.)

Edited by ciller, 15 March 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Kmieciu]

ciller, on 15 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

My only problem is that I can alpha my CN9-A 3xsrm6 into the face of a jenner/cicada/raven 3 or 4 times and not kill him. Or clearly shoot them with my AC20 with hits being registered 3-4 times and they just don't die.

What's your average latency? Because right now a 3xSRM6 salvo can cripple any light mech if all the missiles hit. Without lag compensation you see that all the missiles hit the Light mech, you see the crosshairs turn red, but in fact you might have hit him with just 1 out 18 rockets.
If you want to test it, first leg a fast light mech so it moves at 1/10 of it`s max speed. Then fire the SRM salvo from 50 meters. I guarantee it will go down. That's why you often see players with 20-30 ping one-shotting light or even medium mechs with 2xAC20 or 6xSRM6.

[Amaris the Usurper]

I would like to repeat some of my original tests in live play to see how (or if) the damage done differs from what we are seeing in Testing Grounds.

If you can help, send me a PM.

Edit: Testing completed for now. Results here: http://mwomercs.com/...e-test-results/

Edited by Amaris the Usurper, 15 March 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Jacmac]

I don't know how it is supposed to be in 3050, but today there are two main types of missile warheads, penetrators and fragmenting. Fragmenting should do 2.5 damage in total over the explosive radius. Penetrators should do 2.5 damage at the point of impact and no additional damage. It's pretty much that simple. If PGI is doing something more complex with damage, they are doing it unnecessarily.

[Jungle Rhino]

Why do missles even do splach damage? Why is this mechanic even in the game?! It makes no sense whatsoever.

[FactorlanP]

Jacmac, on 15 March 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

If PGI is doing something more complex with damage, they are doing it unnecessarily.

I'm going to go a step further and say that they are simply doing it WRONG...

[Agent 0 Fortune]

None of this is news. For months the community has observed that light mechs are too small and their hitboxes are broken. I didn't realize this would be news to the devs.
The fact that a stationary Light mech takes more damage isn't that surprising, I usually kill overheated light mechs in one volley, the trick is landing a hit while they move, because those tiny hitboxes moving around tend to allow weapons fire to pass through harmlessly. I can guarantee you that someone besides myself has hit a Raven with a full-on barrage of SRM6 (usually 2 or 3 at once) and it took little to no damage.

I am glad someone has finally brought this to the dev attention, and any fixes that help stationary light mechs will hopefully translate to appropriate hit recognition on moving light mechs.

[Eddy Hawkins]

I was just asked if splash is being added in the EoR totals, i said no, but had no proof. can anyone provide evidence if splash damage is or is not being included in the EoR totals?

Edited by Eddy Hawkins, 15 March 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

Eddy Hawkins, on 15 March 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

I was just asked if splash is being added in the EoR totals, i said no, but had no proof. can anyone provide evidence if splash damage is or is not being included in the EoR totals?

I suspect it probably is - which makes me laugh given the number of 3L pilots who boast that their 500+ damage scores are all 'skillfull laser damage' because they only carry 1T of Streak ammo

Edited by Jungle Rhino, 15 March 2013 - 07:09 AM.