647 replies to this topic

[Vapor Trail]

Looking frame by frame in my Front Test, it appears that the Commando takes splash damage to EVERY hit location (including rear).

Pic of frame in question:

[stjobe]

Wow... Just wow... Great job Amaris!

That's one of the most serious bugs I've seen in this game - 18 damage per SRM instead of 2.5? Talk about overpowered...

PGI better get on this one in a hurry, and the simplest solution is of course to remove splash damage.

[Haitchpeasauce]

@Amaris the Usurper: Thank you for doing this test so rigorously. You explained your methodology so that others can reproduce the results. Excellent documentation. Thank you. I really hope PGI looks into this urgently.

[Nick Carlile]

These threads show a problem to me. How do they not have someone at 5pm PST, or 8pm EST on the boards combing for stuff like this.

Then posting "Hey guys, see the thread, having someone look at it, stay posted".

[LarkinOmega]

This is exactly why I asked about splash damage in the Ask a Dev #34: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2048855

Thanks for doing the work and figuring it out.

[Idolo]

Pyrrho, on 13 March 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Everyone report this thread for immediate Dev attention. Say "Hey Devs, this guy is better at testing than everyone else."

That includes the devs themselfs apparently.

[stjobe]

I just confirmed this for myself in the Training Grounds.

Stood 39 meters off the left side of a COM-1B and fired triple SSRM-2s at it.

First salvo (should be 15 damage) took the 1B to 75% health. The stock 1B has 128 armour and 95 internal structure, so that hit did 56 damage.

Second salvo (should be 15 more damage) killed the 1B outright.

So 30 damage in theory, but one dead Commando in practice.

Edited by stjobe, 13 March 2013 - 04:03 PM.

[WardenWolf]

Great job OP, and other thread contributors! It sounds like you spoke to someone at PGI, but if you aren't getting to the 'bottom of things' (so to speak) I recommend two things:

1) Put a shorter version of this question in the next Ask the Devs, with a link here

2) Private message Garth, or maybe someone else up the command chain (since Garth may still be on vacation).

An issue like this cannot possibly be 'as intended', and we need to get it in front of the powers that be!

EDIT: I just saw it was Omid that you have been in contact with, so he is fairly far up the chain already. I'm surprised that he thought it was working as intended... I am eager to see the Command Chair or official feedback on this one...

Edited by WardenWolf, 13 March 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[Tholis Verrin]

This is made much worse by the way damage is transferred after a component has been destroyed, so long as it remains attached to the mech. The excess splash damage that results is then applied again to the remaining components. If only we had a damage readout at the end of training grounds, we could get even more accurate numbers. I have a feeling the commando in the test was very overkilled.

[Mahws]

You'd think this is the kind of thing they'd pick up on in their internal testing. Great job on this Amaris, I knew Streaks/SRM were doing more damage than advertised from splash, but I had no idea it was this bad.

Vapor trails video is enough to make me cringe, I've had that happen to me more times than I can count in a light mech but I always assumed I'd just got hit with more missiles than I thought and chalked it up to just being grumpy about being killed.

[Sephlock]

I beg the OP to delete this thread, for the good of the community.

SSRMs are already useless unless you have ECM mounted (or are a crack shot with a ppc and are willing to risk being swamped by multiple ECM mechs).

If past patches are any indication, the devs will immediately overnerf SSRMs into the dirt, making them do ridiculously low, machinegun-level damages and then... about half a year later, they'll give them "crit damage" or something else ridiculous and utterly useless to compensate.

Then they'll release another hero mech.

[Monky]

Take an SRM2, get to 30 meters of a commando 1B, aim it squarely at his head, hell throw tag on for good measure. Watch as his entire upper body disentegrates within 4 volleys.

WTF.

It definitely seems to seriously destroy light mechs, medium mechs (test on cent) seem affected pretty heavily, heavy and assault mechs don't seem quite so murdered by it but it still is clearly stripping off plenty of extra even with only the CT being directly struck.

Edited by Monky, 13 March 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Asmosis]

doesnt seem like an issue. an explosion deals X amount of damage, that scales down to zero at the edge of the explosion. It doesnt matter how many people/things are in the explosion, they all take a set amount of damage based on distance from centre of explosion.

Read up on the artillery modules for a bigger example of the same thing.

Now, if it were dealing *more* than 2 damage to a single component (due to double splash or splash onto same area) that would be a problem.

Its not just ssrms either. all missiles/explosive shots would be subject to the samething.

Edited by Asmosis, 13 March 2013 - 04:13 PM.

[Gen Kumon]

Sephlock, on 13 March 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

I beg the OP to delete this thread, for the good of the community.

SSRMs are already useless unless you have ECM mounted (or are a crack shot with a ppc and are willing to risk being swamped by multiple ECM mechs).

If past patches are any indication, the devs will immediately overnerf SSRMs into the dirt, making them do ridiculously low, machinegun-level damages and then... about half a year later, they'll give them "crit damage" or something else ridiculous and utterly useless to compensate.

Then they'll release another hero mech.

You're bad and this post is bad.

All missiles are broken. They *must* be fixed, because they're greatly out of balance with direct-fire weapons. If this gets fixed, it will actually nerf ECM missile boaters, of both the LRM and SSRM variety, as well as Splatcats and their smaller Cent cousins. Basically, nearly everything that's been called "cheese" lately appears to have actually been benefiting from a massive bug.

Edited by Gen Kumon, 13 March 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Sephlock]

How about we remove ECM and pretend it never existed, THEN nerf missiles?

That way, everybody wins!

Alternatively, we could... you know... make ECM do what its supposed to do, instead of being an invulnerability shield.

.

[Oni Ralas]

Good work on the repro, well documented. Been saying this for a while now - no one listened :|

[Davers]

Gen Kumon, on 13 March 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

You're bad and this post is bad.

All missiles are broken. They *must* be fixed, because they're greatly out of balance with direct-fire weapons. If this gets fixed, it will actually nerf ECM missile boaters, of both the LRM and SSRM variety, as well as Splatcats and their smaller Cent cousins. Basically, nearly everything that's been called "cheese" lately appears to have actually been benefiting from a massive bug.

Not 'nerf'. More like 'put back to what they were supposed to be'.

[stjobe]

Asmosis, on 13 March 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

doesnt seem like an issue. an explosion deals X amount of damage, that scales down to zero at the edge of the explosion. It doesnt matter how many people/things are in the explosion, they all take a set amount of damage based on distance from centre of explosion.

A weapon doing eight times its listed damage doesn't seem like an issue to you? To put it in perspective, it's like the AC/20 did 160 damage per shot.

Go watch that video on page three of a SRM-6 one-shotting a Commando through the Center Torso and come back and say that's not an issue.

[Idolo]

Sephlock, on 13 March 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

How about we remove ECM and pretend it never existed, THEN nerf missiles?

That way, everybody wins!

Alternatively, we could... you know... make ECM do what its supposed to do, instead of being an invulnerability shield.

.

Not a nerf but a bug fix, 2 entirely different things.

Edited by Idolo, 13 March 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[Gen Kumon]

Davers, on 13 March 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

Not 'nerf'. More like 'put back to what they were supposed to be'.

Well, "nerf" in the sense of reducing their current performance level. So I suppose "nerf it down to intended levels" might bet the best way of putting it.

Sephlock, on 13 March 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

How about we remove ECM and pretend it never existed, THEN nerf missiles?

That way, everybody wins!

Alternatively, we could... you know... make ECM do what its supposed to do, instead of being an invulnerability shield.

.

ECM does need tweaked, but that's a seperate issue. If this only effected SSRMs or even SSRMs and LRMs, then it could be considered, loosely, an ECM issue as well. The problem is that this also effects normal SRMs, and may be the reason why SRM builds are considered so OP.