550 replies to this topic

[Training Instructor]

There was a Solaris mech with 16 machine guns. I can assure you it wasn't for shooting infantry.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 March 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

It would be. Its part of why I keep getting involved in this topic. I am willing to see the MG get a Buff, but it needs to stay in balance with other 0.5 ton weapons like the Small laser or SRM2. That will be fair and balanced.

We're in a beta. Let's do some actual testing then; start with 4 DPS, if that's OP, lower it to 3 DPS. If it's still OP, lower it to 2 DPS. In the implausible situation where that is still OP, lower it to 1 DPS.

There's simply no use making minor changes to a weapon that's already useless after being buffed once. Buff it to hell and scale it back until you get to a point that's balanced.

I'm willing to get killed a couple of weeks by an OP MG if it means that we'll get a useful weapon in the end.

[Fehrir]

New plan. Use the scrap metal from Machineguns to weld AMS to the front of the mechs and trick them into thinking your target is a missile. Problem solved.

[Ramrod]

Training Instructor, on 14 March 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

There was a Solaris mech with 16 machine guns. I can assure you it wasn't for shooting infantry.

I love this post/name combo.

[Joseph Mallan]

Training Instructor, on 14 March 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

There was a Solaris mech with 16 machine guns. I can assure you it wasn't for shooting infantry.

Right. ...the juggernaut was for entertaining crowds of spectators!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 March 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Right. ...It was for entertaining crowds of spectators!

A very final form of entertainment?

Of course there was a Solaris mech with MGs, Solaris is a fine example of how you can break any semblance of balance Battletech had. In Solaris, these 12 MG swould deal 12 x 2 x 4 = 96 damage in 10 seconds... A bit of a step up from the usual 24 (still neat damage for 6 tons of weapons) they would in the regular Table Top Game.

I hope that whoever designed the Solaris rules has since then learned his math better.

[Critical Fumble]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 March 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Right. ...It was for entertaining crowds of spectators!

Nope, betting on.

Come on, if we're being technical about the universe, any mech is too expensive to risk severe damage to without some significant income. Long odds? Sure, depending on what the other mech is, but there's still a worthwhile chance, or no one would bet on it.

[AdamBaines]

Maybe I'm missing the point of the OP, but are not MGS in the Btech world a complimentary weapon? A weapon used to help generate critical hits on internals after the larger bore projectile, missile and Laser weapons open up the armor a bit? Again maybe Im missing the point and I apologize if I am, but MGS are not meant to be a primary weapon. It compliments the other weapons in an arsenal. They are not the can openers you guys seem to be discussing and wanting. Just like certain mechs have roles in btech/mechwarrior, so do weapons.

Maybe Im missing the point of the OP and others because I played the table top and been into the general lore for years, and the only thing you used a MGS for was to light up infantry and land crits on exposed internals of other mechs. There are no infantry in this game so its really just a crit hit generator after armor has been breached.

[General Taskeen]

Up damage to .6 or .8
Give it a COOL DOWN slighter lower than that of an AC/2
Ammo Between 200 or 600

There ya go Devs. All is right in the universe.

Also, BT MG's weighing Half a Ton, are the equivalent of two GAU-8 cannons

Here is what one looks like



That's right, Mechs ******* die. Twice.



And there is the Piranha mounting 12 Gau-8 sized Clan "machine guns,"

[Joseph Mallan]

MustrumRidcully, on 14 March 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

A very final form of entertainment?

Of course there was a Solaris mech with MGs, Solaris is a fine example of how you can break any semblance of balance Battletech had. In Solaris, these 12 MG swould deal 12 x 2 x 4 = 96 damage in 10 seconds... A bit of a step up from the usual 24 (still neat damage for 6 tons of weapons) they would in the regular Table Top Game.

I hope that whoever designed the Solaris rules has since then learned his math better.

Not under the new rules. Those 90's rules went the way of the dinosaur... I was still involved in Play testing the Mechanics when that Mech came out.

[Thirdstar]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 March 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

It would be. Its part of why I keep getting involved in this topic. I am willing to see the MG get a Buff, but it needs to stay in balance with other 0.5 ton weapons like the Small laser or SRM2. That will be fair and balanced.

Bringing it up to at least the DPS of the SL, if not the SRM2 would be a start.

[Jim Dean]

I think instead of trying to constantly balance MGs and consistently keeping them "useless", they should just keep the MG a crit seeker and add another weapon (heavy MG) that fulfills the damage role.

[MustrumRidcully]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 March 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Not under the new rules. Those 90's rules went the way of the dinosaur... I was still involved in Play testing the Mechanics when that Mech came out.

Oh, there are new rules? How new?

[Joseph Mallan]

Critical Fumble, on 14 March 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

Nope, betting on. Come on, if we're being technical about the universe, any mech is too expensive to risk severe damage to without some significant income. Long odds? Sure, depending on what the other mech is, but there's still a worthwhile chance, or no one would bet on it.

I'd be betting against that pile of crap most nights and winning. Unless it was a city arena or caves... maybe the factory. The range on that slow boat would kill it before you got in knife range.

You are looking at 12 SRM2s that can do the same damage and more with a good bit of heat added in. It's not the weapon its the boating. A lot of small guns add up to big damage. We don't have a Mech with a lot of ballistic HPs. Tell me that the possibility of having 12 weapons doing 16 damage per turn(my suggested MG) each isn't formidable (Max damage of 192 damage per turn with no heat)!

[hashinshin]

Jim Dean, on 14 March 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

I think instead of trying to constantly balance MGs and consistently keeping them "useless", they should just keep the MG a crit seeker and add another weapon (heavy MG) that fulfills the damage role.

they HAVN'T been constantly trying to balance the MG.

They gave it a random *** crit seeking buff a few weeks back. That's 100% of the changes it's seen in the half of year I've been playing.

[General Taskeen]

Jim Dean, on 14 March 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

I think instead of trying to constantly balance MGs and consistently keeping them "useless", they should just keep the MG a crit seeker and add another weapon (heavy MG) that fulfills the damage role.

Then that invalidates stock builds with the Basic middle-of-the-road MG's. I doubt we will see a Light MG, Heavy MG, or MGA anytime soon. All of which do straight up damage in full digits as well, with slight differences in range.

[Jetfire]

I agree, I like the crit buffs and I would keep them as they make the MG unique but a 0.8 to 1.5 DPS output should be viable for such a short range and ammo consuming weapon, not like it will displace SRM6's.

[Joseph Mallan]

MustrumRidcully, on 14 March 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Oh, there are new rules? How new?

Well I was a Commando back 2004-2006!

Map Pack Solaris 7 gave us the first updates 2004.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 March 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[SensualBubblegumX]

Jonathan Paine, on 14 March 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

Try doubling the damage of the MG. If they fail to make an impression, double it again. If you need to visualize a weapon that can damage a mech at extremely close ranges, imagine the gun firing miniature round saw blades spinning madly. As the blades rapidly lose their spin, they lose the ability to cut through mech armor.

Now you're making me want The Ripper from Unreal in this game D:

Anyhow, I'm going to be honest I don't think Mgs will be buffed. The Only game I can recall with nasty Mgs, was Mech Assault 2. And yeah, it's a spin off of MW, but the gameplay is kinda like MW's Arcade-ish little brother. Any way I loves me More Dakka too, that's why I'm waiting for Rotary ACs. So just be patient, wait for Rotary ACs.

[Andross Deverow]

They mite as well drop them from game and replace them with Heavy Machine Guns then....

Regards

SexualBubblegumX, on 14 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Now you're making me want The Ripper from Unreal in this game D:

Anyhow, I'm going to be honest I don't think Mgs will be buffed. The Only game I can recall with nasty Mgs, was Mech Assault 2. And yeah, it's a spin off of MW, but the gameplay is kinda like MW's Arcade-ish little brother. Any way I loves me More Dakka too, that's why I'm waiting for Rotary ACs. So just be patient, wait for Rotary ACs.

Be waiting a long time..

Regards

Edited by Andross Deverow, 14 March 2013 - 06:58 AM.