My response was probably too brief. As it stands we don't know the degree to which splash damage is affecting LRMs. According to Paul there is some damage report inflation in testing grounds, but the damage reports in the same test were normalised against medium lasers, suggesting there is some damage inflation in LRMs compared with MLAS. It is, of course, entirely possible that this damage inflation is entirely due to Testing Grounds bugs. My working assumption at this point is that either:
a: LRMs do not employ splash damage, damage is correct and the TG damage reporting bug is somehow affecting them more than MLAS
b: LRMs do employ splash damage, in which case there is no reason to believe different code is being used, and their damage is likely inflated
I do think that it's posing less of a problem with LRMs since dense-hitbox mechs like the Commando are less prone to being hit by them. They might be inflating damage against the Stalker, due to the hitbox density at LRM strike angle, but frankly LRMs will always rip Stalkers to pieces due to hitbox placement, so it's difficult to ascertain.
Entirely possible indeed. It should prove interesting, if we were to get the change data.... I won't be holding my breath on that though.
Likely Patch Note: Missile Splash has been adjusted.
The problem is not boats but how MWO gave certain mechs too many hard-points and too high of an engine rating allowing unbalanced game play. Also @ the moment the missile behavior is not correct. Never mind ECM issues as well. Yes some "boats" do have weakness that can be taken advantage of. Yes sometimes team work, tactics, & piloting can overcome some builds. But there are certain mechs that do have an overwhelming advantage at the moment. To deny this fact would be folly on your part. Such builds that take advantage of PGI unbalanced mechs make the game dry and frustrating.
To fix these unbalanced mechs the following can be done.
No engine changes
Have cannon amount of hardpoints
Controlled hard-points (i.e. hardpointX can only weighX or/& have Xcrits slots)
Sorry but this hypothetical out range the SRM does not work on most maps. Either the splatter is already on top of you or can outrun/maneuver many mech configurations. Worse yet is when a Zerg of Splatters fall on you at Theta on ice city, where to run/cover/out range.
A sad example of simple dps and game balance gone wrong. Any mech configuration can not compete with the sheer DPS, speed (aprox 80+kph), agility (shoot almost backwards & jumpjets), & armor of a splatter & other cat cheese plain and simple.
The splatter should be properly adjusted to 2 (As per canon A1 sucks & carried only 2xLRM15's) or for the sake of not totally nerfing the A1 to junk maybe 3 or 4 tubes total.
In general the all of the MWO Catapults are unbalanced as for hardpoints. With a combination of hardpoint reductions and hardpoint controlled (i.e. hardpointX can only weighX or have Xcrits slots) a balnce can be met for both MWO game play and meet Canon.
For those who care not for Canon please realize this is a franchise for which some have paid cash based on its name and the pledge of the publisher to be as canon as possible.
As per Canon:
CPLT-C1
Mass 65 tons
Speed 64.8 km/h Jump Jets
Armament 2xLRM-15s 4xMedium Lasers
CPLT-A1 - The A1 variant of the Catapult was designed without back-up weapons. While it doubles the amount of LRM ammo carried and adds on two tons of armor, it is highly susceptible to close range attacks and has little defense if an enemy does manage to close in on it.
CPLT-C4 - Replacing the Medium Lasers with a single Small Laser and removing some heat sinks, the -C4 instead carries two LRM-20 launchers with double the amount of ammunition, giving it about twenty five percent more damage capability at long range.
CPLT-K2 - Breaking the mold of the Catapult, this House Kurita model removes the LRM-15 launchers and replaces them with two PPCs, allowing the Catapult to act as a direct fire support 'Mech and take a more active role in front line combat. The 'Mech mounts five additional single heat sinks to help dissipate the added heat from the PPCs and two Machine Guns to deter infantry attacks. Space is made by removing the jump jets and two of the medium lasers.
Catapult is an offense oriented, second-line fire-support BattleMech initially produced on a limited contract for the Terran Hegemony. Its ten tons of armor, fifteen heat sinks and top speed of 64.8 km/h allows the Catapult to deliver its payload of Long Range Missiles on an enemy from great distances without the risk of return fire. The use of four jump jetsgives the Catapult a jumping distance of one hundred and twenty meters and the ability to pace faster units over broken terrain. The original Anderson 21 model jump jets tended to break down over prolonged use, venting into the machine's interior and overheating the 'Mech. A general recall in 2566 to replace the 21s with improved Anderson 25s solved the issue, though some Catapults never received this retrofit. The 'Mech is also unique for having a sideways ejection system which, while generally safe, can be quite a surprise to newCatapult pilots.[4][5]
Representing Hollis Incorporated's first foray into the 'Mech market, the Catapult was produced in record numbers over its initial three-year period from the company's brand-new, state-of-the-art factory. However, when the contract came up for review in 2563, the Hegemony decided not to renew it; while the Catapult had performed adequately at its role, it was not quite what they wanted. With large numbers of the 'Mech still in the field, the Catapult would continue to see use in the Star League Defense Force with second-line and specialist formations such as mountaineering regiments. When the factory constructing them switched over to the more-successful BattleMaster, Hollis' limited production of spare parts couldn't keep the design's numbers from dwindling.[4][5]
When the Star League fell, many of the remaining Catapults joined Aleksandr Kerensky on his Exodus. The Capellan Confederation collected most of the Catapults that remained in the Inner Sphere, and the Hollis factory on Corey briefly produced new models and spare parts. At the same time, the Draconis Combine managed to seize a sizable force in their capture of Dieron. The renewed production ended when the Corey factory was destroyed at the onset of the First Succession War, ensuring the rarity of the Catapult during the rest of that bloody era. Entire invasions were commenced simply to seize the remaining number of these 'Mechs, particularly those launched by the Federated Suns against the Confederation.[4][5]
Many variants of this venerable design were produced through its lifetime, and the Catapult's rarity began to reverse in 3033 when Yori 'Mech Works was contracted by the DCMS to produce the completely-revamped CPLT-2K on Al Na'ir. The greatest change to the chassis came later, with the introduction of the CPLT-C3, which swapped out the original's LRMs for much larger and more powerful artillery missiles. These models were put to excellent use, especially when paired with Ravens, and paved the way for new design advancements.[6]
In the years prior to and after the Clan Invasion, The Confederacy and Combine retained the largest number of existing Catapults, though many Periphery realms would field some of the centuries-old models, and more variants would be produced for decades.[6]
To summarize TAG should always work & Streaks/Regular LRMs should always work if using Canon BT/MW.
Number of (regular LRM/SRM) missiles hit per salvo in current MWO is OP. On average only about 50%-60% should be hitting i.e. LRM20 average 12 missiles hit per salvo.
Guardian ECM Suite is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.[2] Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.[2]
Angel ECM Suite is an experimental version of the Guardian ECM Suite operating on a broader spectrum and greatly advances ECM technology on the battlefield.
Game Rules
The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV,Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.
When using ECCM rules, the Angel ECM Suite counts as two ECM/ECCM units (depending on how it is set) for the purposes of determining the ratio of ECM to ECCM in a given area.
Target Acquisition Gear (TAG) is an advanced targeting device for use by artillery spotters. The TAG unit works by firing an infrared laser beam to designate the target and transmits that data via a tight-beam laser communication system to the guidance systems of friendly "smart" bombs and missiles. TAG is compatible with systems such as Arrow IV Homing Missiles or LRM munitions.
Streak Missile Launcher Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits, Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects. The only disadvantages are that Streak launchers are incompatible with other missile target acquisition technologies such as the Artemis IV FCS and Narc Missile Beacon, their specialized ammunition is much more expensive, and some users are willing to accept partial hits rather than not be able to fire on demand.
Long Range Missiles are designed to engage the enemy at great distances at the expense of damage dealt. Adapted towards the profusion of electronic jamming on the battlefield and the effectiveness of current armor designs, these missiles are capable of indirect fire and disperse over a smaller area than Short Range Missiles. Inner Sphere LRM launchers achieve this range by firing at a ballistic launch angle, making them less accurate at close range. Clan LRM launchers do not suffer from this effect, in addition to being smaller and more compact, thanks to their technological advantage. LRMs are highly upgradable, able to fire a variety of warheads and benefit from devices such as Artemis IV FCS.[1]
The missile pattern is easy to adjust, since it is now a CVAR
It's not the pattern, do you even know what's going on? It's the splash damage. Just adjusting the pattern doesn't necessarily fix the issue.
They have stated over and over that they are looking at ECM, and also said that they are making adjustments that are coming up.
4 months is too long for something like ECM in a fledgling game like this.
The Consumables are now equal, both C-Bill and MC Versions
Yup, they ****** up and fixed it. Who is the dumbass who initated the original version? That shows a complete lack of control of their product. And once again kills fledgling games.
The quote you have was stated in the context of having a feature that would allow repeated uses of Coolant in a single match. The current build does not allow this.
They said no coolant period. And then added it. Bad practice.
There was a ton of useful information in Ask the Devs
Now you are just lying.
They care much more about the Mechwarrior IP than Microsoft did when they released MechAssault.
OH YEAH BEING BETTER THAN MICROSOFT WITH A GAME IP. LETS HANG OUR HATS ON THAT ONE.
Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:
Boating is easy because you hit one button.
Here is the basic splatcat attack "Sneak up on mech=>Put target reticle over mech=>Click Mouse=>Done".
Here is a balanced loud out attack "Try and circle to make sure your gun arm can shoot mech=>Keep eye on cooldown's of 3 different weapon types=>Line up so that you can hit with torso weapons and arm weapons=>note when you can only hit with arm weapons=>hit mouse 1, 2 or 3 depending on situation=>note strengths of opposing mech and perhaps try and manuver into medium to long range to give yourself an advantage."
You don't have to take any of those things into account with splatcats.
so splat cats arms dont move? if your oppnent is moving you dont have to compensate for fire delay? more delay if you choose to leave baydoors shut to avoid risk.
and your CHOOSING to leave yourself balanced to be able to do something in any situation but frankly not a master of any situation which is YOUR CHOICE. Other players shouldnt be punished for trying to master a specific action because they are wide open to counters.
take the splat cat fastest one can move is around 74mph , they can carry enough heatsinks to fire 3 alphas (or 7 shots of 3 SRM's) before they over heat or they can go with less ammo and maybe be able to handle 4 alphas before overheat even if they dotn let themselves overheat they cant fire again till they cooldown. if they dont get the drop on you (which learn to pay attention) keep moving they miss make them pay for it and always focus on their arms especially if they over heat. If you see them coming CALL IT OUT and then stay out of range and since you are a "balanced" mech use your longer range to take out their arms and laugh at them once they are zombied.
Im begining to realize people who whine about splatcats are same people who whin about Rogues in World of Warcraft.
Sorry but this hypothetical out range the SRM does not work on most maps. Either the splatter is already on top of you or can outrun/maneuver many mech configurations. Worse yet is when a Zerg of Splatters fall on you at Theta on ice city, where to run/cover/out range.
I have a tough time when a "zerg" of enemy mechs of any make up come at me.
Focus fire is a *****.
How exactly do you come out on top when 3 or 4 decent pilots focus their efforts on you?
Because unless the enemy pilots are stupid, when I find myself the focus of more than 2 enemy mechs it normally results in a fairly fast death for me.
For those who care not for Canon please realize this is a franchise for which some have paid cash based on its name and the pledge of the publisher to be as canon as possible.
The issue with the "canon" robots is mostly that the vast majority of their configs need tweaking or overhauling, and their intended roles (those "balanced" mechs with like 1xLRM5/1xSRM2/1xPPC/1xSmLas are a good example) are not always viable roles for a mechwarrior game. Adding rules in attempt to push the configs closer to stock isn't going to change the fact that people want to run (and will find ways to run) brawlers/poptarts/skirmishers/etc.
Excuse me? Paul stated the data gathered in the Training grounds was BOGUS, then he went on to state that yes, their is a "Splash" application issue.
Any data collected via the Training grounds is still BOGUS!
You might want to relax with your BS rhetoric, at least until you get it right btw.
Excuse me? He never used the word "bogus", nor did he at any time in his response discount that missile splash damage is creating more total damage than intended. He did say that the training ground numbers were inflated over live numbers, and then when on with the majority of the post to explain exactly how and why the idea that the damage is to high is indeed correct.
You might want to relax with your BS intentional misinterpretations, at least until I can't link to where I'm proven right and you're proven wrong.
1: This is purely a cosmetic thing. PGI has already stated that this will be fixed cosmetically as it applies to missiles: Equipping more missiles will result in more tubes being added to the model. There's no reason not to think it won't be applied to everything else. You're asking for something which was instituted because of looks to drastically affect gameplay, to which i say no.
2: I may be wrong, but isn't this exactly how arm actuators work right now? Isn't that why the Catapults and Stalkers can't move their arms horizontally--because they're missing the proper actuators?
3: Do you know what would happen if they did this? It either wouldn't make enough of a difference, or people would just find the next best boat that retains convergence (for instance, the 4-PPC Stalker wouldn't be affected at all by this).
Regarding 1, yes, that is correct. PGI plans to add art for this modification. Very valid explaination.
In reference to 2, yes, that is how they current work but you can not critical them, thus deny someone's ability to arm converge. That was what I was getting at.
For 3, "finding the next best boat" should be balanced. With the above suggested change, the best your going to find is like the HBK-4P or Jagermech, with many points in the arms to allow for convergence or many weapons close together for convergence. But with all those weapons in a vulnerable location (arm) or in the same armor/internal location (close together), this balances the mech to mechs which spread their weaponry apart. And since weapons themselves do not converge, this is highly likely players will find a build which converges all the weaponry to a single location, unless a mech is built with that in mind.
Also regarding 3, regarding the 4 PPC Stalker, having Hardpoint Types and Sizes should fix this.
I have a tough time when a "zerg" of enemy mechs of any make up come at me.
Focus fire is a *****.
How exactly do you come out on top when 3 or 4 decent pilots focus their efforts on you?
Because unless the enemy pilots are stupid, when I find myself the focus of more than 2 enemy mechs it normally results in a fairly fast death for me.
First this was an example that cheese cats are not always easily defeated by being "alert" or having better tactics/piloting/teamwork .
Yes any focus fire can kill quickly but a Zerg of cheezkatz kill instantly not allowing a chance to give some pain back.
A zerg of cheezkatz can easily overcome 3 mechs in a row with little to no damage.
I often have been able to handle multiple opponents long enough to do at least some damage or distract them long enough for a team win but having over 12+ SRM6s hitting at once is whole different and boring story.
The point is made plain in my whole post but to summarize again certain mechs have an overwhelming advantage of DPS/Speed/Agility/Heat management that should not exist per canon or even for fun balance.
The point is made plain in my whole post but to summarize again certain mechs have an overwhelming advantage of DPS/Speed/Agility/Heat management that should not exist per canon or even for fun balance.
That's not a boat thing, though, that's a fast heavy mech thing. In a week, you'll also have to deal with AC40 Jagermechs at ~80 kph.
Edited by Royalewithcheese, 15 March 2013 - 08:40 AM.
For those who care not for Canon please realize this is a franchise for which some have paid cash based on its name and the pledge of the publisher to be as canon as possible.
Why do you base your argument on canon, when the entire purpose of the franchise is to design mechs which were not canon?
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Gaan Cathal, on 15 March 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:
