463 replies to this topic

[AlexWildeagle]

Fut, on 15 March 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Yeah, I've never understood this whole "LRM should only soften up your opponents" train of thought...

LRMs were designed to remove tons of armor from your teams opponents from range. In MWO their designed the same but when the Devs reduced the damage to direct fire weapons they didn't reduce it proportionally to missiles. So missiles became more powerful and you can use them at long range without my risk.

Thats why people say that. Missiles were designed as support weapons and PGI mutated them.

[3rdworld]

AlexWildeagle, on 15 March 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Either you don't know what boating is or you're just being rude.

All the Cats have some direct fire weapons. Boating is ripping those out to mod the missile launchers or add more tons of ammo.

adding ammo is now boating.


You heard it here first.

[Dishevel]

AlexWildeagle, on 15 March 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

All the Cats have some direct fire weapons. Boating is ripping those out to mod the missile launchers or add more tons of ammo.

What game are you playing?
A1 is LRM / SRM / SSRM capable only.
No Energy, No Ballistic.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Eternal Hunter, on 15 March 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Boating is canon, agreed.
But as also said the problem is weapons hitting the same spot which is not canon, it should be random but that would take skill out of it - also most boats are lrm or laser boats, laser boats are a pain, but speed makes them miss and\or distribute damage.
As with any fps'ish game, you stand still you're probably dead.

LRM boats...meh. Cover helps, ecm helps, AMS helps. NOT charging straight at them for 500 meters out in los while they TAG you with tons of artemis enabled missiles help. Hell, even Torso twisting then can make you survive.
But still with all that I feel too much of the LRM damage is assigned to center torso *shrug*

whatever happened to the idea of convergence taking time?

[AlexWildeagle]

Yokaiko, on 15 March 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

so......the A1 with only missile slots............not a boat?

Are we playing the same game?

OOps, link was bad and sent me to wrong mech. OK, so if everyone weanted to play a CAT A1 that would be fine. It is balanced for the playground we use.

Edited by AlexWildeagle, 15 March 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[FupDup]

AlexWildeagle, on 15 March 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Don't have access to the game right now but the cat A1 I know has two LRM15s and 4 medium lasers

That's the C1...

[Wildstreak]

Boating is not a problem, when I go on Forest Colony or River City, I never see anyone out in their expensive yachts on the water, the rich snobs know....

Oh, you mean the other kind of boats.

I don't think weapon Boating is a problem.

I DO think Extreme Boating is a problem.

Traditional Boating is Mechs like the Catapult (A1, C1, C4), Longbow, Yeoman, some others. Even the Hunchback 4J is a Boat though a small one with LRM10s.

Extreme Boating is what we have in MWO due to Harpoints. A Stalker with 5 LRM20s, sure if you get close you can annoy it but you have to get through waves of 100+ missiles. Nothing in traditional BattleTech had that, even the Yeoman pictured on Page 1 here had 2LRM15s and 2LRM10s. I and others have done the AWS-8R with 4LRM15s plus Artemis with room for 3ML, that is better than the Yeoman.

The question I think is really where do you draw the line between Acceptable Boats and Extreme Boats.

A Yeoman has 2LRM15 with enough ammo to fire both 16 times plus 2LRM10 with enough ammo to fire both 12 times. In MWO terms that could be 21.6 volleys of all 4 launchers (MWO does not treat ammo for different launchers separately).

An Awesome-8R with 4LRM15 plus Artemis can carry at least 4 tons ammo (done it) with stock engine, in BT terms that is 8 times but in MWO terms that is 12 volleys. I have seen a video of a guy who carried 9 tons ammo, 18 BT volleys, 27 MWO volleys.

The AWS-8R is much more fearsome as a LRM Boat than the Yeoman and still has some close range firepower.

Discussion of Boating should mention specifically which Mechs are the worst Boats, why and how to fix.

Sure, other topics like LRM Splash damage count but it does matter how many launchers and ammo you can bring to the match. A Stalker with 5 LRM20s is overkill, far worse than a Yeoman that is even outmatched by the AWS-8R with 4 ALRM15s.

Then you have the Energy Boats, not many but a Stalker with 5, maybe 4 PPCs qualifies.

Sure, the stock AWS-8Q is a boat having 3 PPCs and barely enough HS to fire and move. However you take a STK and slap 5 PPCs on it, if you have the DHS, this is far worse. I have even come across a 4 PPC Atlas in MWO.

It all comes down to where you draw the line between Acceptable and Extreme Boating.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

AlexWildeagle, on 15 March 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Either you don't know what boating is or you're just being rude.

All the Cats have some direct fire weapons. Boating is ripping those out to mod the missile launchers or add more tons of ammo.

ah you mean like this?

Quote

CPLT-A1 - The A1 variant of the Catapult was designed without back-up weapons. While it doubles the amount of LRM ammo carried and adds on two tons of armor, it is highly susceptible to close range attacks and has little defense if an enemy does manage to close in on it.

they ripped out the md lasers to add more ammo and armor.
So even "ripping out stuff to add weapons and ammo" IS TT ITSELF
But you dont seem to be arguing that boating is bad, your definition of "boating" seems to be that there is a mechlab at all. Im assuming you run only stock mechs? Because if you dont, by your own argument:

Quote

Boating is ripping those out to mod the missile launchers or add more tons of ammo.

If you dont youre guilty of it as well

By your opinion is the Awesome a PPC boat or not as the stock design goes?
Better yet, by your argument, is this a boat?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hollander

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 15 March 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Yokaiko]

AlexWildeagle, on 15 March 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Don't have access to the game right now but the cat A1 I know has two LRM15s and 4 medium lasers

That is a C4, the A1 has 6 missile slots, period.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Yokaiko, on 15 March 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

so......the A1 with only missile slots............not a boat?

Are we playing the same game?

no, his definition of "boat" is HIS definition. ONLY his definition.
Because everyone else's definition is totally different

[Royalewithcheese]

Alvor, on 15 March 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Read my original post.

Doesn't make your views on "cheese" vs. "good build" clear, tbh. It comes off as there are some things that you need to work harder on countering, as opposed to trying to change the rules on.

[FupDup]

Yokaiko, on 15 March 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

That is a C4, the A1 has 6 missile slots, period.

Both of you got it wrong.

It's the C1 with 4 laser hardpoints: http://mwowiki.org/w...atapult_CPLT-C1

Edited by FupDup, 15 March 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[AlexWildeagle]

Boating is out of control. Of that there is no question. One of the reasons I haven't played in a month or 2 or spent any money on this game. MWO should not be about standing somewhere hiding watching rack after rack of missiles go flying by.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

AlexWildeagle, on 15 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

So missiles became more powerful and you can use them at long range without my risk.

You DO realise that most IS missile heavy mechs designed for support roles are "second line" mechs? IE NOT meant to BE in the front lines, NOT meant to be "in danger" or "at risk" when they engage the enemy.

Then again most LRM mechs ARE "at risk" no matter where theyre firing from due to the lack of the simple ability to look down to fire at the light mechs facehugging them. Also if you arent situationally aware, even in a LRM mech, a light will run up behind you and rip you apart.

[Alvor]

MaddMaxx, on 15 March 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

You were doing so good with the whole Canon idealistic diatribe dude. Then you wrinkled like a cheap piece of paper. You can't beat us with the holy "Canon Stick" then make statements like "or" and "for the sake of not totally" fcol.

In Canon there were no restrictions, just weight and space. Without the MechLab as is, and full freedom, MWO would already be what chased most away from other MechWarrior titles.

You should thank the Dev team for not making those same mistakes again.

Your right and not. For canon stock builds it should be the same amount and type of hard points or just stock mechs. And yes one could free design mechs in canon as well. I miss making my free build mechs as I always hated the stock builds. But for stock mechs the options should be somewhat limited.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 March 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

so we should remove the A1 from the game for one cause theres no way to make that mech not a boat
Prolly should remove the Catapult line entirely given that theyre all pretty much designed to be boats

Really, no way to not make it not a boat? And what if I combine LRMs and SRMs? SHOCKING!!!

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 15 March 2013 - 09:40 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Merchant, on 15 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Sure, the stock AWS-8Q is a boat having 3 PPCs and barely enough HS to fire and move. However you take a STK and slap 5 PPCs on it, if you have the DHS, this is far worse. I have even come across a 4 PPC Atlas in MWO.

It all comes down to where you draw the line between Acceptable and Extreme Boating.

the 6 one is more fun though harder to fire. If you use single HS, you shut down after the first volley lol

AlexWildeagle, on 15 March 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Boating is out of control. Of that there is no question. One of the reasons I haven't played in a month or 2 or spent any money on this game. MWO should not be about standing somewhere hiding watching rack after rack of missiles go flying by.

so you think the devs should remove the A-1 design from the game? Along with the PPC Awesome?

GODzillaGSPB, on 15 March 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Really, no way to not make it not a boat? And what if I combine LRMs and SRMs? SHOCKING!!!

yeah my post was meant as seriouslt and non sarcasticly as yours. IE it was meant sarcastically but Im guessing you knew that and decided to reply anyways

[PropagandaWar]

I dont hate boating on enemy team. I hate it on mine. I've seen more "one trick ponies" cost us or cripple our side because they require Tag or Shut down every other shot with zero backup weapons for when they close in (Exception Splatcat, Then its opposite).

[Tice Daurus]

AlexWildeagle, on 15 March 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Boating is out of control. Of that there is no question. One of the reasons I haven't played in a month or 2 or spent any money on this game. MWO should not be about standing somewhere hiding watching rack after rack of missiles go flying by.

Alex, this is the internet. If everyone for some reason all want to boat LRM's or SRM's on an entire team...LET THEM. It's all about free choice, not being in Soviet Russia where the KGB con-trolls what you think. ANYONE...ANYONE saying that boating should be removed are just making uninformed assinine statements because there were mechs in the game that were specificially built to boat ONE specific weapon.

I'm sorry if this comes off as flaming, but I'm getting pretty damn tired of people posting stupid uninformed threads like this. Yes I understand there are people who have never played the TT game, I get it, they are uninformed. However this game is being based on the BATTLETECH game, even though they are using the MECHWARRIOR name for the game because of liceincing issues, it's still a Battletech game. If you don't know about Battletech, go to http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page, and you can learn all about the Battletech universe and there you will understand that there were mechs specifically built to BOAT one style of weapon.

As far as I'm concerned this thread is a troll thread and it needs to go to Jettisoned or birdville ASAP. That might be my opinion, but to me, this thread serves no purpose.

My apologies for the ranting and raving. I'm just getting tired of stupid threads such as this. They're unproductive and serve no purpose, like talking about capping, ecm, or double heat sinks for the 1000th time.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

PropagandaWar, on 15 March 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

I dont hate boating on enemy team. I hate it on mine. I've seen more "one trick ponies" cost us or cripple our side because they require Tag or Shut down every other shot with zero backup weapons for when they close in (Exception Splatcat, Then its opposite).

Shouldnt the scout mechs HAVE TAG??
Oh yeah I forgot, the "scouts" in this game arent scouts at all but max damage anti assault/light mechs.

Tice Daurus, on 15 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Alex, this is the internet. If everyone for some reason all want to boat LRM's or SRM's on an entire team...LET THEM. It's all about free choice, not being in Soviet Russia where the KGB con-trolls what you think. ANYONE...ANYONE saying that boating should be removed are just making uninformed assinine statements because there were mechs in the game that were specificially built to boat ONE specific weapon.

I'm sorry if this comes off as flaming, but I'm getting pretty damn tired of people posting stupid uninformed threads like this. Yes I understand there are people who have never played the TT game, I get it, they are uninformed. However this game is being based on the BATTLETECH game, even though they are using the MECHWARRIOR name for the game because of liceincing issues, it's still a Battletech game. If you don't know about Battletech, go to http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page, and you can learn all about the Battletech universe and there you will understand that there were mechs specifically built to BOAT one style of weapon.

As far as I'm concerned this thread is a troll thread and it needs to go to Jettisoned or birdville ASAP. That might be my opinion, but to me, this thread serves no purpose.

My apologies for the ranting and raving. I'm just getting tired of stupid threads such as this. They're unproductive and serve no purpose, like talking about capping, ecm, or double heat sinks for the 1000th time.

theyre worse than unproductive actually, theyre the type of QQ that makes PGI fold under the pressure (and they do that pretty damn often) to change things for the worse. See: the history of LRMs from CB forward.