36 replies to this topic

[Onyx Rain]

So the SDR-9K is listed on the master unit list as being in the year 3050 and these mechs are very closely related to the spiders...they even share the same "SDR" designation, Since there is just this one in our timeline I say make it a hero mech since it is so close to the regular spiders... and IMO at least 2 spider variants without ecm suck...not so much because they lack ecm but because they only have 2 energy hardpoints in the chest, or 4 mg and 1 energy...technically with the 4 mg one you can get 18 total firepower, but mg's still suck (Still to weak IMO) and the other one has a max firepower of 12 with 2 mPulse lasers....can't even fit 1 er ppc because of only 2 chest crits...won't fit.

Anyways basically the one humanoid light we have, only has 1 decent variant...so IMO it would be cool to give us the Venom SDR-9K as a Spider Hero mech. I woudn't even care if they updated the model with the spider's wing things, but that probably wouldn't be a huge task for them using the current spider as the base.

http://www.masteruni...Unit?Name=Venom
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spider
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Venom

Edited by Egomane, 17 March 2013 - 01:44 PM.
Changed Poll to follow the rules

[Egomane]

http://mwomercs.com/...estion-polling/

Please make sure your polls in the suggestion forums follow the rules listed in above linked thread. This time I made the changes for you. Thank you!

[FrostCollar]

Well, maybe. However, it's a heavier mech which is a problem. Also, 4 energy hardpoints looks like a pretty clear upgrade versus the other current spiders, especially since the only spider with more hardpoints has to depend on (shudder) machine guns to fill them all.

[Strum Wealh]

Despite the shared SDR designation, the Venom is as much a separate 'Mech from the Spider as the Grand Dragon is from its own parent design (or arguably moreso, since the latter pair are at least the same weight) - and note how no Dragon variants (including the Hero 'Mechs) allow for the Grand Dragon setup.

That being said, there are a couple of potential heroes for the Spider:

"Lieutenant Gwndolyn Snedicor: Recently promoted to command a strike lance in the 151st Dark Horse regiment of the Eridani Light Horse, Gwndolyn has shown a talent for both reconnaissance and raiding but is still new to issuing commands. Suffering from severe arachnophobia, she finds it ironic that she was not only assigned to a Spider and has talent using it, but she has also been at the forefront of the unit’s run-ins with Natasha Kerensky."

"Captain Rhonda Stillston: In charge of a recon company in the Addicks Draconis March Militia, Captain Stillson has been a force to be reckoned with on the Combine border for over two decades. Easily recognizable in her bright red Spider with gold highlights, she won’t hesitate to engage units twice her ’Mech’s mass, using her superior mobility to hit and run. Being on the short list for a promotion to major has curtailed her ferocity to some extent, but her company helps keep her on top of the enemy at all times."

Both are listed in TRO 3039 (on page 106), and neither lists the specific loadout of the 'Mech itself... which could give PGI the leeway to (mostly) emulate the Venom's loadout on an actual Spider rather than a heavier (albeit related) 'Mech, and attribute it to an apparently-notable canon character.

And, yes, it should be doable...
Chassis: Endo-Steel
Engine: STD 180 (base max speed of 97 kph)
Jump Jets: x6 (LT, RT, x2 CT, LL, RL)
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous (5.5 tons, 194 armor points (92% of maximum))
Heat Sinks: x10 DHS (7 in engine, x2 LT, x1 RT)
Weapons: x4 MPLas (x2 LT, x2 RT)
All tonnage and criticals used; tested in RemLab

[Matchstick]

Strum Wealh, on 17 March 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Despite the shared SDR designation, the Venom is as much a separate 'Mech from the Spider as the Grand Dragon is from its own parent design (or arguably moreso, since the latter pair are at least the same weight) - and note how no Dragon variants (including the Hero 'Mechs) allow for the Grand Dragon setup.

thats not true at all about the dragon. the Flame can be configed to be the grand dragon. hardpoints are not all the same but the main weapons loadout are there as well as the speed.

take a look, other then the fact its running ferro and endo its the Grand Dragon.
FLAME

Edited by Matchstick, 17 March 2013 - 04:52 PM.

[Onyx Rain]

FrostCollar, on 17 March 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Well, maybe. However, it's a heavier mech which is a problem. Also, 4 energy hardpoints looks like a pretty clear upgrade versus the other current spiders, especially since the only spider with more hardpoints has to depend on (shudder) machine guns to fill them all.

Well this is my point actually, we need a "clear upgrade"...The other spiders except the 3 energy/ecm variant are so gimped (IMO) compared to other light mechs that it justifies the Hero mech having 5 ton/1-2 hard point "boost". They can use the same basic art assets probably/maybe scale them up a meter or 2 in game and then render the wings, and alter the hit box some.

A hero mech with 2 missile slots in the torso, or a missile laser mix and another laser on the arm would be a major improvement. Then you could do strk/srm4/laser combos...maybe an srm 6 in the torso and 2 lasers...something like that. We need at least 1 more very viable sdr though, because leveling up the 2 gimped ones is painful. An extra crit center torso so you could mount an erppc might be another way to go.

Even just a double dmg buff to MG would good...I don't think the crit increases were enough. I've seen very little improvement in actual in game effectiveness using MGs.

I'm using a large pulse/4MG setup and even that thing takes forever to get through armor, or even to kill a stripped mech. I'm pretty sure I'd loose a duel to anything, probably even a commando in it. While I can win duels in other lights or my 3 energy hardpoint spider.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 17 March 2013 - 11:29 PM.

[General Taskeen]

I'd rather the Venom be a whole new chassis, plus its tonnage is different. It looks way more sleek and updated. There are other Mechs that get 'upgrades' too.

Dragon -> Grand Dragon
Cataphract -> Caesar

Edited by General Taskeen, 18 March 2013 - 05:23 AM.

[FrostCollar]

Onyx Rain, on 17 March 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Well this is my point actually, we need a "clear upgrade"...The other spiders except the 3 energy/ecm variant are so gimped (IMO) compared to other light mechs that it justifies the Hero mech having 5 ton/1-2 hard point "boost". They can use the same basic art assets probably/maybe scale them up a meter or 2 in game and then render the wings, and alter the hit box some.

A hero mech with 2 missile slots in the torso, or a missile laser mix and another laser on the arm would be a major improvement. Then you could do strk/srm4/laser combos...maybe an srm 6 in the torso and 2 lasers...something like that. We need at least 1 more very viable sdr though, because leveling up the 2 gimped ones is painful. An extra crit center torso so you could mount an erppc might be another way to go.

Even just a double dmg buff to MG would good...I don't think the crit increases were enough. I've seen very little improvement in actual in game effectiveness using MGs.

I'm using a large pulse/4MG setup and even that thing takes forever to get through armor, or even to kill a stripped mech. I'm pretty sure I'd loose a duel to anything, probably even a commando in it. While I can win duels in other lights or my 3 energy hardpoint spider.

Yeah, MG needs a major boost. However, can you imagine the consequences in the community of making the only "good" spider, a chassis far superior to the other variants, a hero?

[Onyx Rain]

FrostCollar, on 18 March 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Yeah, MG needs a major boost. However, can you imagine the consequences in the community of making the only "good" spider, a chassis far superior to the other variants, a hero?

Ya someone would have to whine about it. I personally don't see 1 more hard point and a bit more armor as huge boost from the 5D, but I'm sure it would PO some people...but at least leveling up spiders wouldn't be so painful. I pretty much gave up and spent some gxp to do some of the upgrades because I was getting so frustrated with those 2 craptastic variants. I almost have to wonder if that isn't PGI's strategy....make 2 of them so frustrating that many will feel forced to spend mc to convert exp to gxp and upgrade the dang things to be done with it.

The D is pretty nice...I've cut the JJs down quite a bit, and I am running an XL 225 with 2 med lasers and 1 er ppc with a 1.23 Heat efficiency with dhs and endo...don't remember if I have ferro on it, but I think I do. There are variations on the build with 2 small lasers or 1 med/1small that are pretty nice too and a bit easier to manage heat on. With speed tweak that still puts me over 130Kph, decent heat, and firepower approaching what other lights/cicada can carry. The ERppc is nice to snipe with and stay out of the fray, then the 2 med lasers back it up in the real fight.

We need at least 1 more good spider though...I can muddle through 1 crap mech but 2 hurts.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 18 March 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Onyx Rain]

General Taskeen, on 18 March 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

I'd rather the Venom be a whole new chassis, plus its tonnage is different. It looks way more sleek and updated. There are other Mechs that get 'upgrades' too.

Dragon -> Grand Dragon
Cataphract -> Caesar

Well the problem with that is the other variants of it are several years away, but there is that 1 that is in our time frame.

Personally I'd like them to do one off mechs that are hero mechs that you don't have to have 3 variants to unlock everything. That would be a way to get some more chassis into the game but I guess it is to much work for the programmers.

The venom seems like a viable exception though because they could use most of the art assets probably and just tweak the hardpoints and hit box, maybe model the wings and we'd be good to go. Maybe it is more complicated then that...but seems they would at least have some head start already having the base spider model as opposed to having to model an entirely new mech. So instead of calling it a spider hero mech...they could just say "Hey this thing is so close to the spider we went ahead and tweaked a spider model and setup to create this one entirely different mech that is seperate but similar to spiders and available for purchase."

Edited by Onyx Rain, 18 March 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[HammerSwarm]

Onyx Rain, on 17 March 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

Well this is my point actually, we need a "clear upgrade"...The other spiders except the 3 energy/ecm variant are so gimped (IMO) compared to other light mechs that it justifies the Hero mech having 5 ton/1-2 hard point "boost". They can use the same basic art assets probably/maybe scale them up a meter or 2 in game and then render the wings, and alter the hit box some.

You're going to run afoul of the Pay2Win crowd here. The only alternative is to include a second venom as a regular mech. It's not a terrible Idea you are proposing but make sure that your suggestions take into account that a large part of the player base doesn't pay, and doesn't like the idea of not getting all the content.

[PapaKilo]

Hey Onyx...

You can already do a Venom build -- the SDR-9KA (or near enough).

'Mech: Spider
Variant: SDR-5D
Engine: 240XL
Chassis: Endo Steel
Armor: 208 Standard
Jump Jets: 6
Heat Sinks: 11 Double
Armament: 3 Medium Pulse Lasers (1 in CT, 2 in RA)

Note: No ECM (Venom doesn't have it anyway, but some players will wonder why you have a SDR-5D with no ECM).

Same firepower; same speed; less jump capability (but still plenty); more armor in some places, less in others. The stock Venom SDR-9K only has about as much armor as a stock Spider, so it sucks.

Edited by PapaKilo, 20 March 2013 - 06:25 PM.

[Onyx Rain]

HammerSwarm, on 18 March 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

You're going to run afoul of the Pay2Win crowd here. The only alternative is to include a second venom as a regular mech. It's not a terrible Idea you are proposing but make sure that your suggestions take into account that a large part of the player base doesn't pay, and doesn't like the idea of not getting all the content.

Ya unfortunately this is true... It could be something they did as a gift, just give it to us I do pay money for some content in this game but even if I didn't, I feel like with all that is free, I wouldn't have a hissy fit if a few mechs were one of a kind pay only deals....but then I forget that I'm actually a reasonable person and so many aren't

PapaKilo, on 20 March 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Hey Onyx...

You can already do a Venom build -- the SDR-9KA (or near enough).

'Mech: Spider
Variant: SDR-5D
Engine: 240XL
Chassis: Endo Steel
Armor: 208 Standard
Jump Jets: 6
Heat Sinks: 11 Double
Armament: 3 Medium Pulse Lasers (1 in CT, 2 in RA)

Note: No ECM (Venom doesn't have it anyway, but some players will wonder why you have a SDR-5D with no ECM).

Same firepower; same speed; less jump capability (but still plenty); more armor in some places, less in others. The stock Venom SDR-9K only has about as much armor as a stock Spider, so it sucks.

Meh I think that extra pulse laser would make a big difference. I'm actually running my spider at 130kph with an xl225 2 med/1 erppc, and liking it...you can go down to 1 sm/1 med, or 2 smalls for a bit better heat. I sold the other 2 variants, they are crap.

[Mypa333]

A new variant of the Spider would be great. I love the Spider, how it looks, the speed, the agility.
I'm running a SDR 5D with an XL 255 Engine, 3 jumpjets, DHS, 2 MPL and one ML. It's a good weapon.

Buuuuuuuuuut..... I've been trying to unlock the efficiencies for the other 2 spiders, so I can unlock the elite for my 5D. It's so frustrating. I took the 4MG+1ML Spider first, it was absolutely awful and after 4 hours of in game playing, averaging a 34 matches, I managed to unlock the basic efficiencies. Most of the games, were won by capturing base/resources.

Now I took the 2 ML Spider which is the easiest kill ever for other mechs. I have to get my torso pointing the enemy mech, it's so difficult. If it had the 2 lasers in the arms, then that would have been way better. As well, I'm usually going for capture to get the damn XP.

I hate Ravens. I've had it with other Ravens with the damn streaks that bring easy kills.

Get an upgrade for the ECM, or get the Spiders some Missle slots.

[General Taskeen]

They won't add it to the existing Spider tree, since it is 5 tons heavier unless they make an exception for "upgrade" Mech designs. It would also need an entirely new 3D Model, the upgrade is far more sleek and modern looking. It would be added as 3 or more variants at some later time perhaps within its own tree.

Some Mechs however do have upgrades that are the same weight, and same name designation. The Dragon and Grand Dragon for instance.

Edited by General Taskeen, 16 May 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[LordBraxton]

Mypa333, on 25 March 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

A new variant of the Spider would be great. I love the Spider, how it looks, the speed, the agility.
I'm running a SDR 5D with an XL 255 Engine, 3 jumpjets, DHS, 2 MPL and one ML. It's a good weapon.

Buuuuuuuuuut..... I've been trying to unlock the efficiencies for the other 2 spiders, so I can unlock the elite for my 5D. It's so frustrating. I took the 4MG+1ML Spider first, it was absolutely awful and after 4 hours of in game playing, averaging a 34 matches, I managed to unlock the basic efficiencies. Most of the games, were won by capturing base/resources.

Now I took the 2 ML Spider which is the easiest kill ever for other mechs. I have to get my torso pointing the enemy mech, it's so difficult. If it had the 2 lasers in the arms, then that would have been way better. As well, I'm usually going for capture to get the damn XP.

I hate Ravens. I've had it with other Ravens with the damn streaks that bring easy kills.

Get an upgrade for the ECM, or get the Spiders some Missle slots.

prepare for 3Ls with BAP that give no ***** about your ECM

Edited by LordBraxton, 16 May 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Syllogy]

LordBraxton, on 16 May 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

prepare for 3Ls with BAP that give no ***** about your ECM

Why would a 3L use BAP?

[General Taskeen]

Syllogy, on 17 May 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Why would a 3L use BAP?

Well, a 3L comes stock with ECM and BAP... so... there's that.

[Oppresor]

General Taskeen, on 18 May 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Well, a 3L comes stock with ECM and BAP... so... there's that.

My Recon 5K carry's a BAP, it also packs AMS, but that's because it's primary role is Recon and it has to survive as long as possible. I have tried dropping its one defensive laser in favour of a TAG, but as one of the other threads pointed out, no one seems to understand how TAG is used with LRM.

Light Recon all the way!!

[Gremlich Johns]

Didn't the Venom show up in 3055?