304 replies to this topic

[William Knight]

I Love the Jagermech, however I would love to see slightly smaller side torsos.

P.S the head is perfect don't make it smaller.

http://www16.mediafi...iv1pg81difg.jpg

Edited by William Knight, 19 March 2013 - 10:28 PM.

[JeepStuff]

EDIT: Deleting this post and many others of mine due to bad information.

Edited by EJT, 20 March 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

So the max rear CT armor is 10 and the max side torso armor is 6??? Wow. That was a real shock, and not something you learn about it until AFTER you buy it. That's less than half the rear armor of the other heavies. Is this intentional? Sure makes this mech fragile from the rear. Please fix this to make it like all the other heavies.

Otherwise, love the mech. Hardpoint variety is awesome.

Um, wow. Ok. First off, have you tried clicking the up arrow on that? I think it'd solve your first issue. Secondly, as a long range support mech, if you're being hit in the rear armour at all you've already lost.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 19 March 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[Deux]

I played jager 4 times...i died to 3 head shots....since then i moved back to my hunchie, and i have killed 4 jagers by shooting off their head

[0X2A]

Going through some builds for the 4 x Ballistic variants: (I have other weapons on them, but focus on ballistics)

Quad Ac/2 : Great for sniping at range. Too bad this only applies to 2 maps.

Dual Ac/2 + Dual (U)Ac/5 : Exceptional mid range combat DPS is off the charts. (jk)

Dual Ac/10 : Not tested; no comment.

Dual Gauss : My current config. Beautiful mid range punch, although it is squishy in a brawl

Dual Ac/20 : Brawlin beotch, limited range

-Head hitbox is a bit large.

-What were you smoking with the standard configs?

Nice mech 7/10

[Sir Roland MXIII]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Uh....yeah.....I know how to click the up arrow.

The max rear CT armor is 10 and the max rear side torso armor is 6. Compare that to 22 and 16 for the other heavies.

And I disagree 100% with your second statement. No matter your role, you should NOT stay so far back from the battle that there's no risk of getting hit from behind. If you're that far away, your team is effectively down one mech and probably losing.

You do realize there is no such thing as max rear armour right? Claim that all ye want but it doesn't make it true.

And as far as long range support mechs go, that is exactly what they're meant for. Despite being a ways off from the team they still contribute a great deal. In the end, I've been playing them for 6 months now so I'll take my objective experience over your subjective opinion any day.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 19 March 2013 - 10:39 PM.

[Mavairo]

First up:
Pro, capable of stupid amounts of firepower when properly equipped. Pin point capable damage no less too. The amount of firepower this thing can put on a given part of armor is very strong for the mech's weight class when everything is working right.

Pro: every variant I've run so far, at least after DHS being equipped has proven to be far more heat efficient than the stat would otherwise tell you. It's very good at putting fire down range for the long haul assuming you don't get too trigger happy.

Pro: UAC5s on this thing are drop dead sexy. Hell any AC is but especially the UAC5. It's more than a little refreshing to actually have barrels change with armament change.

Con: Arm articulation is pretty poor

Con: a variant that has 3 ballistics in each arm. Way too many for the weight of the mech there.

Con: Head hit box is insanely huge. I can not think of the last time I have been nearly head shot (stripped armor) so many times, so many matches in a row than when I roll the jager.

Con: Fairly large STs. Coupled with multiple ballistic slots, and missile mounts. Means to run Artemis you need an XL engine which is a huge liability in this particular mech. I think it should have a larger amount of armor be capable of being run in the STs for as large as they are. Even if you don't run an XL engine, the STs on this thing pop like crazy.

Con: Very small torso twist angles. (at least un specced) Couple this with the limited arm travel, and it's very hard to make this mech work for any form of close in work.

These have been my first impressions so far of the Jager. They're liable to change as time goes on and I get used to the mech (god it's so slow compared to what I am used to running!).

[Nankam]

As many have said, the hitbox of the head is way too large. I have never died to this many headshots in any other mech. It seems to get hit by LRMs from all angles too.

On a more subjective note, I expected the center torso to extend into the sides more. I was surpised to discover that the ct is a small strip down the middle, and that the side torsos are even more massive than a cataphracts as a result. A slight reduction in side torso size would be nice. I also don't like the giant fins on the side torsos as they make it impossible to see out of the side windows in the cockpit, thus greatly reducing visibility. Maybe this will be mitigated when I unlock the elite torso twist.

As for the positives, the mech as a whole looks awesome. I especially like the variantions you get when equipping different ballistic weapons to the arms. Those massive canons look pretty sweet. It's also quite refreshing having the arms so high up and above line of sight as it makes the Jager really good at firing over cover and hills, something which distinguishes it from the Cataphract 4x, which has 5 tons on it.

I'd love to see a hero variant with 1 ballistic and 1 laser in each arm.

Edited by Nankam, 19 March 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[El Penguin]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Please provide a quote to substantiate this. I've read that damage to the rear armor transfers to the front, but that doesn't mean front and rear armor are the same. You start taking critical hits to internals when your rear armor is stripped even when your front armor is not stripped. Rear armor matters.




So my opinion is subjective because it's mine and your opinion is objective because it's yours? Wow. In any case, this is a thread about the Jagermech and I shouldn't have followed you off into the weeds. My bad for feeding the troll.

There is no such thing as "max rear armor". The front and back armor max is shared. So the center torso is at 84, while sides are 60. So exactly the same as a catapult. Only difference is the hitbox size/shape. Just adjust the armor values to your liking

[Kotsuno]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Please provide a quote to substantiate this. I've read that damage to the rear armor transfers to the front, but that doesn't mean front and rear armor are the same. You start taking critical hits to internals when your rear armor is stripped even when your front armor is not stripped. Rear armor matters.

Front and back armour allocations are shared. There is a maximum set amount that can be distributed between them. If you want to be able to put more armour in the back, strip it from the front and vice versa. I think this is what he means.

[Mr 144]

BAMN! Headshot to the back! <-----Seriously, the cockpit hitbox needs work, and I don't think a simple reduction in size is goig to fix this one.

Torso Turn rate...hard to judge without the elite multiplier yet, but far too sluggish for a mech that will more than likely will be running stock(ish) sized engines to fit ballistics. Even with a 300, an Atlas can outcircle you...and that should not be on a 'light' heavy chassis.

Cockpit obscures targeting...A major perk of the chassis is in the extreme vertical targeting ability, but you can't actually aim the arm reticule in almost half it's available traverse thanks to the cockpit...adjust pilot position forward some, or this perk is wasted.

Mr 144

[Sir Roland MXIII]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Please provide a quote to substantiate this. I've read that damage to the rear armor transfers to the front, but that doesn't mean front and rear armor are the same. You start taking critical hits to internals when your rear armor is stripped even when your front armor is not stripped. Rear armor matters.

So you've read this. You haven't actually gone and tried this? You haven't actually seen fit to test this? Unbelievable. If you HAD you'd know that this is patently untrue. Armour points are shared between front and rear per torso area. What you don't use in one is available in the other. Therefore, there is no seperate maximum for front or rear armour, EVER, other than the limit of what points are in the pool.

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

So my opinion is subjective because it's mine and your opinion is objective because it's yours? Wow. In any case, this is a thread about the Jagermech and I shouldn't have followed you off into the weeds. My bad for feeding the troll.

I'm not trolling you, I'm trying to control the misinformation you are injecting into this thread by saying there's things like max rear armour when there isn't, and that long range support mechs are not useful to the team when that includes your LRM support that is actively helping you win the game despite not being next to you.

As far as opinion vs opinion goes I'm telling you that I base what I am saying off facts, not "how I think the game is". If you have experience, fine, but so far all I've seen you say is "how I think the game works" and not "how I have seen the game work". The fact that you seem unaware of how torso armour pools function indicates the former is your preferred modus operandi and that the latter is possibly foreign to you.

EDIT

Mr 144, on 19 March 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Cockpit obscures targeting...A major perk of the chassis is in the extreme vertical targeting ability, but you can't actually aim the arm reticule in almost half it's available traverse thanks to the cockpit...adjust pilot position forward some, or this perk is wasted.

If only they would, sadly it's probably too late to do anything about this. However if they did, I sure would appreciate it. I was rather annoyed to find out that an anti-air mech loses sight to it's own cockpit at around 50 degrees elevation, which seems to me to ignore the intended purpose for aesthtetics. If it was forward, and/ or slightly lower in relation that'd be fantastic.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 19 March 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

That's not what we're saying. That is what YOU are saying. If you want rear armour higher than 10, lower the front armour on that area FIRST - THEN raise the rear armour. No offense but I fail to see how this is difficult to comprehend when even a minor amount of fiddling would show this to be true. If at that point it still fails then you have discovered a rather odd and rare bug. But I somewhat doubt that to be the case, here.

[El Penguin]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Just to be clear, are you saying that if you max the CT armor (for example) front and rear, if a mech is standing behind you firing at your rear, then it will take just as long to kill you as if he is standing in front of you firing at your front? That doesn't pass the sniff test. Experience suggests otherwise. If I'm wrong here, please provide a link to prove it. I would love to read it.

If you divide 84 by 2, so 42 on Front and Back armor, then yes it will take the same amount of time. But that isn't wise to do for obvious reasons.

Bud, just launch your game. Go to one of your mechs armor and lower the front armor. You will see it will allow you to put more rear armor. They are shared to make the cap limit. The catapult and Jagermech have the same exact armor caps.

[El Penguin]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

What I'm saying is that my experience suggests that it much less time to kill a mech when you're shooting him in the back than when you're shooting him in the front. It's strange that so many people are arguing otherwise because it seems obviously true. From experience. If you believe otherwise, quote please.

Also, if you try it in the testing grounds it's absolutely true that you can kill a mech MUCH faster by doing alphas in the rear compared to alphas in the front. But the testing ground damage is known to be incorrect, so it's hard to base anything on that data.

That is because the mechs are setup that way. You can have your rear armor to anything within the Torso section cap. Heres a setup that has the CT rear armor stronger than the front.



I didn't tuch the side torso armor from my build but as you notice, I changed them from the stock values. The rear armor is higher.

Edited by El Penguin, 19 March 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[krolmir]

Yeah Jager needs cockpit hitbox adjustment bad, every splat cat that shots at my CT cockpits me in a single volley.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

What I'm saying is that my experience suggests that it much less time to kill a mech when you're shooting him in the back than when you're shooting him in the front. It's strange that so many people are arguing otherwise because it seems obviously true. From experience. If you believe otherwise, quote please.

If thats what you're saying then I must apologize because I misunderstood. That is correct, armour is life, the more you have the better. I keep about a dozen on my Jagers rear because thats about all I need to survive two light alphas or one medium alpha. If I take more than that, the fight is not in my favor, period. Most people keep the majority of their armour to the front because of view and weapon orientation, etc. Hence why rear armour is, and always will be, a desirable target.

I've seen some mechs, TT anyways, with higher armour rear but there they could get away with it because the weapons could flip to the rear and / or they had serious rear oriented weaponry, etc. I wouldn't advise that here for obvious reasons, you'd be able to take the hits but not fight back at all.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 19 March 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

It is impossible to raise the rear center torso armor higher than 10. Dude. If you disagree, buy one and try it. I have one. Even if you lower the front center torso armor to 0, you CANNOT raise the rear center torso armor above 10. Just like you can't raise the rear center torso armor of a catapult above 22, no matter what you do with the front armor. The same is true with the Jaggermech, except the limit is 10. Limit reached.

I'm trying to be calm here, but in one breath you are ribbing me because you think I haven't tested stuff, and then in the other breath you are saying "I doubt it" to something you haven't tried. I'm telling you. 10. Limit reached.

Here's something I DON'T know how to do. Post a screenshot in the forum. Otherwise I'd show you. I know you can link to an image on an external site. I don't really want to do that. Can I post a screenshot without linking to one? Insert image? I think probably not. If so, let me know and I'll show you what I'm saying.

...AGAIN... I base my knowledge on facts, not theory. I have four JagerMechs. I have raised all of their rear armour above ten. If you are having problems in this regard then talk to Support about it.

[Mr 144]

EJT, on 19 March 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

It is impossible to raise the rear center torso armor higher than 10. Dude. If you disagree, buy one and try it. I have one. Even if you lower the front center torso armor to 0, you CANNOT raise the rear center torso armor above 10. Just like you can't raise the rear center torso armor of a catapult above 22, no matter what you do with the front armor. The same is true with the Jaggermech, except the limit is 10. Limit reached.

I'm trying to be calm here, but in one breath you are ribbing me because you think I haven't tested stuff, and then in the other breath you are saying "I doubt it" to something you haven't tried. I'm telling you. 10. Limit reached.

Here's something I DON'T know how to do. Post a screenshot in the forum. Otherwise I'd show you. I know you can link to an image on an external site. I don't really want to do that. Can I post a screenshot without linking to one? Insert image? I think probably not. If so, let me know and I'll show you what I'm saying.

I own them all....screenshot your effort, because everyone here knows what you're saying to be completely untrue. My rear armor on my Jager-A is 24 right now...obviously higher than 10...again, this is simplistic to both understand and test...you are grossly misinformed and are spreading misinformation

Mr 144

Edit: Setup an Imageshack account...host your pic there...then copy paste the 'forum' link provided after your upload.

Edited by Mr 144, 19 March 2013 - 11:47 PM.

[Fooooo]

EJT.... Look at the post 2 above yours.

It has a picture of a Jager with 74 rear armor............ I don't know what your smoking, but it works like that for all mechs. Remove from front and you can add more to the rear, but only to the maximum for that section..which for the jager is 84. (which includes the FRONT...so a max of 84 at either the front or rear if one of them is set to 0)

Edited by Fooooo, 19 March 2013 - 11:47 PM.