79 replies to this topic

[CSG Gunslinger]

I played everything up to MW4 with first person view a keyboard and joystick. The advent of jumpers in MW4 forced a switch to 3rd person on my part but I prefer 1st.

As others have said, use the look left/right feature (map your hat switch) to look out the side windows. Back in MW4 some mechs would actually shoot hard left or right (IIRC) if you looked out either side and fired your weapons.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

3rd person camera only encourages cheap gameplay and breaks immersion.

Mechwarrior 4 turned into a jumpsnipe fest exactly BECAUSE of 3rd person camera.

It's simple guys, PAY THE HELL ATTENTION TO YOUR SURROUNDINGS. yes you're going to run into ****, you think every mechwarrior ever is like, perfect at piloting their machine, it TAKES TIME AND PRACTICE. Learn your surroundings, learn the maps. learn what's around you BEFORE you engage a target.

[Garth Erlam]

As an example: Why would you need scouts if you can just tilt your camera and see over hills?

[UncleKulikov]

It works just like the World of Tanks control model, except your "turret" is restricted to a front 180*. Practice is probably the answer to difficulty with navigation.

[Hayden]

Garth Erlam, on 31 May 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

As an example: Why would you need scouts if you can just tilt your camera and see over hills?

This.

[Grub]

Really don't get what the big fuss is about concerning mouse & keyboard. I played MW4 for years using just the keys, and I never had any real problems, even without 3rd-person. And as for the concern of piloting, it shouldn't be a problem as long as you pay attention to what's going on around you and you/your squadmates know what they're doing. Just don't put yourself in the position to nerf your buddies, and everything should be fine. You can't have one guy trying to joust while the rest are trying to set up a strafing circle.

[Zack Delphirian]

Garth Erlam, on 31 May 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

As an example: Why would you need scouts if you can just tilt your camera and see over hills?

Could not have said it better .
It's the problem in WoT, and I'm the first one to abuse it, the 3rd person view really takes away all of the immersion and personnality of the fact that you're piloting a tank. I'll play MWO because I want to be a mechwarrior when I grow up, but it might not happen so I'll have to make due with this game and thus want the experience to be as close as possible as the real one.

And last point : 1st person view is better than 3rd, because it is first and therefore better than 3rd, like in college. I rest my case

[Renan Ruivo]

Thanks everyone for the replies, but please guys we are getting a little out of topic. Which might be fine depending on what is being discussed, but i just want to clarify that i have no problem with the game being first-person only. I'm not asking for third-person mode nor am i saying that first-person is terrible.

So to clarify my original post, i am:

• Interested in how other people play MW4 and other mech games, while on first-person mode, with only the mouse and the keyboard. So i ask people not to say "You just do this with your joystick" when replying to the original question.

And to add to the original post, since it also fits with the title, i am curious about multi-monitor support. Multi-monitor support is fine, however i have some problems with it on MMO's like these. Simply put, not everyone have the luxury of being able to use more than two screens in one application (more than two requires two cards or a special solo card), so adding this would be unfair to these people since they would add tactical advatage.


And also to (now) get into the merits of the different controlling methods, i have to ask this since i am new to the community. Do the developers have a goal that both control types (moyse + keyb and joystick) need to be balanced, or do they show favor to one of them? I ask this because if the joystick is imperative to the MW:O (Note i said MechWarrior: Online. I know the joystick is imperative on the other, single-player title) then i guess that i will have to go and buy one, hehe.

[Lightfoot]

You check the path before turning. Check again as needed. After awhile you forget your doing it.

[Redshift2k5]

I play MWLL (with it's strict first person view) with a mouse and keyboard just fine. WS for throttle/down throttle, AD for turning the feet around. Mouse for torso turn and elevation. Works just fine. MWO controls mostly seem to match up the same as MWLL's controls.

[Roland]

Regarding, "How do you run around if you're in first person, and not bump into things?"

You're in first person in real life, right? And presumably you don't run into things?

It's the same way in mechwarrior. After a while you just get a sense of where you are, even though you can't see yourself. You know that if you saw a building in front of you, and then turned left that building is still there.

Takes some getting used to, I'm sure, but folks will pick it up.

[SuomiWarder]

The mouse controls where your body is facing. Your legs are "turned" by keys on the keyboard. Somehwat similiar to most first person shooter games with the WASZ key set up. Main difference is you do not hold down the forward button to move, once you throttle up you stay at that speed. So you only use two keys to turn your lower body.

Some joystick twist and go through the usual jotstick orientations allowing you to steer and direct your upper body with the same hand on the same stick. I never got the hang of that, and program two buttons on my stick for turn left and turn right, steering with one hand while pointing my torso and firing with the other. Which is basically what a mouse user would do but using the keyboard in place of the buttons on the base of the joystick.

[SilvaDraconis]

Been a while but between the MW games and FASA Pods I've always preferred first person and rarely had trouble with running into things but frankly most of those maps were flat and sparse of obstacles. I actually encourage the PIP foot view idea as well as terrain that isn't flat as a football field. Make circle strafing at least require a bit of skill.

[FactorlanP]

SilvaDraconis, on 31 May 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

FASA Pods

Now that brings back some memories! When I was in college, a group of friends and I regularly trekked up to Chicago to the BattleTech Center. Good times! That was some real cutting edge stuff back around 1989-90.

As for the topic of the thread... I will be mapping the torso twist and elevation to the X and Y axis on my stick. The turning left and right of the legs will be mapped to my rudder pedals.

Edited by FactorlanP, 31 May 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[Nev]

Redshift2k5, on 31 May 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

I play MWLL (with it's strict first person view) with a mouse and keyboard just fine. WS for throttle/down throttle, AD for turning the feet around. Mouse for torso turn and elevation. Works just fine. MWO controls mostly seem to match up the same as MWLL's controls.

Pretty much the same here, don't have any trouble at all.

[Renan Ruivo]

Yeah i have been trying to get accostumed to first-person only with MW4, which is why i asked how people do it. The minimap does not do it for me because while it shows where the legs are facing independant from the torso, it does not show terrain obstacles. But as Roland said it should take practice, and i know i did it back in MW3 and MW2 hehe.


Which, i guess, is a good thing. At launch i expect a lot of people will try to play it like a FPS and will make for excelent target practice for those who can pilot their own 'mechs. Hell, i might even create my own DIY TrackIR device, if the game supports it. It shouldn't give that much more advantage like a multi-monitor would.


And on another point, how exactly are the arms controls different than the torso controls?



Ah, and there is an excellent suggestion! PIP from a camera on the main body that shows you where you are moving to. That shouldn't be hard to implement, isn't game-breaking (since everyone will have it) and makes real-world sense. Of course a 'mech would be able to have a range-finder like camera on the body. Between the legs, maybe? In this case, do NOT add an optical zoom function, PLEASE!

Edited by Renan Ruivo, 31 May 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[JazzySteel]

Renan Ruivo, on 31 May 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yeah i have been trying to get accostumed to first-person only with MW4, which is why i asked how people do it. The minimap does not do it for me because while it shows where the legs are facing independant from the torso, it does not show terrain obstacles. But as Roland said it should take practice, and i know i did it back in MW3 and MW2 hehe.


Which, i guess, is a good thing. At launch i expect a lot of people will try to play it like a FPS and will make for excelent target practice for those who can pilot their own 'mechs. Hell, i might even create my own DIY TrackIR device, if the game supports it. It shouldn't give that much more advantage like a multi-monitor would.


And on another point, how exactly are the arms controls different than the torso controls?



Ah, and there is an excellent suggestion! PIP from a camera on the main body that shows you where you are moving to. That shouldn't be hard to implement, isn't game-breaking (since everyone will have it) and makes real-world sense. Of course a 'mech would be able to have a range-finder like camera on the body. Between the legs, maybe? In this case, do NOT add an optical zoom function, PLEASE!

Im gonna answer these in order.

1st paragraph: according to the screens and ingame we have seen so far, the minimap is, infact, topographical. Should help a bit.

2nd: TrackIR would be awesome....

3rd: whenever you move your torso the first reticle to move is a small dot representing where your arms are pointing, then the lerger reticule representing your torso catches up. The speed of the movement of your torso depends on chassis.

4th: I like the PiP idea, but I also like Optical Zoom, a feature that has been confirmed to be in MWO.

[Renan Ruivo]

JazzySteel, on 31 May 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

I like the PiP idea, but I also like Optical Zoom, a feature that has been confirmed to be in MWO.

Optical Zoom for a camera mounted between the legs of a 'mech? I'll pass, .

[JazzySteel]

Renan Ruivo, on 31 May 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Optical Zoom for a camera mounted between the legs of a 'mech? I'll pass, .

Oh, yea. No, I dont think well need it there. *imagines a lens telescoping out from the crotch of an Atlas, and falls into a fit of immature giggles*

[TWolfWD]

MadBoris, on 31 May 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

You are the pilot inside a very large, heavy and powerful mechanized robot.

You don't want third person view anymore, that was playing a game through some video screen, not a pilot of a robot.

Furthermore, a joystick, will increase immersion(the feeling of being there and operating the vehicle) over a mouse.

That's a roomy cockpit. Based on the seats positioning so far back, a Pilot won't be able to simply look left or right. I think perhaps a system in which one of the larger dashboard screens shows the views of external cameras may be appropriate { right arm, left arm, leg facing, rear }. the view could toggle through the various camera's, or have a binding for each camera. In this way, you always have that display available, not having to think about rotating it yourself.

Hmm, will a pilot be able to rotate arms individually, that is, have more than one target?