79 replies to this topic

[Stickjock]

trycksh0t, on 31 May 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Read DevBlogs and Q&A's. No third person. Period.

Quote

Q. Will you be able to switch from first-person to third-person views?

A. The game is played from the first person. We’re exploring ways to have a third person camera that make sense from a gameplay point of view.

This is still in the FAQ... so is it just outdated information or are they indeeed still "exploring" the idea...

Personally... 1st Person Cockpit view is fine in my opinion...

[Frostiken]

Phaid Knott, on 03 June 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

Circle straffing (close in) is usually done by the lighter mech (as its it only chance against a heavier mech). Assault and Heavy Pilots HATE circle straffing as they can't keep up. However take that tactic out the loop and just have a slugfest and you'll get very few wanting to play the lighter/medium mechs (tho I am a light/medium pilot, so I would say circle straffing is fine )

Bad pilots can't keep up. Usually they attempt to keep following the other mech around, when the easiest tactic is honestly to just stop turning, and reverse your way out of the circle. This will usually bring the the light directly in front of you as well as throw off his circling, and then you just hit him with everything you've got.

Circle-strafing is only really possible if both parties allow it and engage in it. You can't really circle-strafe around someone moving in a straight line, that's just called chasing

Also it depends on the maneuverability of the assets. In MWLL, light mechs couldn't 'circle strafe' a stationary heavy to death, because lights didn't turn fast enough which meant their circles had to be very large, and going slower meant you turned faster, which meant a heavy walking in small circles could easily keep up with a light that was forced to do large circles. I always wished lights were more effective against big blundering assaults, but unfortunately it was usually not a huge deal to keep up enough to hit them several times.

Edited by Frostiken, 03 June 2012 - 06:25 AM.

[Phaid Knott]

Heh, always keep a few flamers on hand and hope you've got support. A light mech can't solo an Assault in previous MW games by circle straffing. But a light and mediums and seriously mess up an Assult Mechs day if left alone. A light mech keeping close and always trying to position at the rear of a heavier mech can't be totally ignored. You can usually circle strafe an Assault, but against a medium?

One of the joys of MW is the fact there is no game winning tactic that can be used all the time. An to effectivly circle strafe you need close attemtion to the throttle. I use a Logitech Joystick with seperate throttle, it really makes manovering a mech a lot easier

[Stormdragon]

I like the fact that they are sticking to their guns and Keeping MWO 1st person...though we all know the first two hacks will be a speed hack and a 3rd person hack.

Lets just hope bans are swift and merciless.

[Diomed]

The game should have an option to use a 3rd person camera. I like to see my mech that I am driving, this adds to the immersion for me. I do not feel like I am driving a mech when I am staring at a cockpit. All the cockpit does is impede my vision and ruin my SAM. I cannot turn my head, like I can when I am flying. I cannot visually scan the instruments since most of them don't work, so I use the UI just like I do when I am in 3rd person. I can see the area in front and to the side of my mech, just like I could if I were the pilot. A 1st person-only cockpit overly restricts vision, ruins SAM and ruins the feeling of driving a battelmech.

As for expliots of seeing over hills, just limit the zoom.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

Force feed back enable joystick will make this that much more fun for must moving as well as incoming/outgoing rounds!!!

Joystick/throttle, peddles, torso twist, feed back, multiple displays....OH MY!!!!!


<spooge>

[Phaid Knott]

Diomed, on 03 June 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

The game should have an option to use a 3rd person camera. I like to see my mech that I am driving, this adds to the immersion for me. I do not feel like I am driving a mech when I am staring at a cockpit. All the cockpit does is impede my vision and ruin my SAM. I cannot turn my head, like I can when I am flying. I cannot visually scan the instruments since most of them don't work, so I use the UI just like I do when I am in 3rd person. I can see the area in front and to the side of my mech, just like I could if I were the pilot. A 1st person-only cockpit overly restricts vision, ruins SAM and ruins the feeling of driving a battelmech.

As for expliots of seeing over hills, just limit the zoom.

I think thats part of the game, limiting your view to 1st person does ruin your SA. As light mechs have fast torso traverse they gain better SA. But in an assault mech you have poorer SA. That means an assault mech needs scouts/lighter mechs etc to provide that SA. Putting 3rd person in means too much is gained by heavier mechs (and less team work needed). I prefer to think of an assault mech as something you point at a painted target, and the assult mech simply "blats" it (no much SA needed, just guns and armour). Locking it to 1st person view helps to define the roles. Mediums are scout killers, Heavies are medium killers, Assault kills everything and scouts try to keep a low profile (but still do the lance good).

[Ursus_Spiritus]

The whole point behind Mechwarrior was to be a MECH SIM.

Meaning you are in the cockpit, that is your only POV aside from outside info from scouts/recon and intelligence.

You work from inside that cockpit to command/control the Company/lance/mech.

The whole third person POV was a major turn off for MW4 for me.

At that point you aren't sim piloting a mech but playing an arcade shooter.
A kin to drag racing in Need for Speed using the driver PoV vs the remote camra view here you can easily seen when someone was sneaking up on you, or you had a wider view of a nearing cross street and traffic.

Your PoV is supposed to be limited in the mech. You aren't meant to see that mech behind you, if you are focusing on a target, unless a lance mate calls it out, or you happen to glance at your radar/sensor data but usually then it is to late.

Third person PoV is non immersive and detracts from the feel of the game.
Those that can't play with out it, adapt or go back to MW4.

[Adrienne Vorton]

yea i prefer the simulation part over the third person view...only exception is for making a decent movie, but maybe there will be a replaymode of some kind in the future... would be awesome...

[Fabe]

Diomed, on 03 June 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

The game should have an option to use a 3rd person camera. I like to see my mech that I am driving, this adds to the immersion for me. I do not feel like I am driving a mech when I am staring at a cockpit. All the cockpit does is impede my vision and ruin my SAM. I cannot turn my head, like I can when I am flying. I cannot visually scan the instruments since most of them don't work, so I use the UI just like I do when I am in 3rd person. I can see the area in front and to the side of my mech, just like I could if I were the pilot. A 1st person-only cockpit overly restricts vision, ruins SAM and ruins the feeling of driving a battelmech.

As for expliots of seeing over hills, just limit the zoom.

I disagree, Battlemechs are more like walking tanks, not fighter jets. the crew of a 'buttoned up' tank have a limited view but they still manage to do Their job,they don't get a magic third person view. As others have said if we truly pay attention to our sensors,surroundings and properly communicate with lance mates SA should not be a problem.

[Renan Ruivo]

trycksh0t, on 31 May 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Read DevBlogs and Q&A's. No third person. Period.

This is from the first-page but since there are still a lot of people quoting from this guy, i'll address him.

Read the original post. Period.


People, i'll say it again. Stop arguing about the presence (or lack thereof) of a third-person camera. I have not asked for one, i know that there can't be one and talking about as if i was asking for one only shows either lack of proper reading skills, or posting etiquette (you should read the OP, and not post something based only on the title)

Edited by Renan Ruivo, 03 June 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[Renan Ruivo]

Stormdragon, on 03 June 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

I like the fact that they are sticking to their guns and Keeping MWO 1st person...though we all know the first two hacks will be a speed hack and a 3rd person hack.

Lets just hope bans are swift and merciless.

I think that this is dangerous territory for us to take any discussion ... but to indulge myself a little on it i'd say that one of the very first hacks will simply remove the cockpit graphics and grant a full first-person view. IF that isn't already on the game, which i doubt.

[evilC]

For those proposing to aim via joystick, I feel that a little bit of education is in order.

Joystick is an ABSOLUTE input method, mouse is RELATIVE.
What does this mean?
When a joystick sends information to the computer, it is saying something like "x = 10, y = 100". (As in x is at 10 units above 0 and y is at 100 units above 0).
When a mouse sends information to the computer, it is saying something like "x = +10, y = +100" (As in x is 10 more than last time, y is 100 more than last time)

Standard FPS games' aiming is a relative axis (You could turn endlessly to the left) whereas MWO's torso twist is an absolute axis (You can only twist left so much).
Now you might be saying "Oh great, torso twist is absolute, the axis is absolute - it's all gravy" but you would be wrong. This would mean that if the torso is twisted (And thus the joystick is off-center) and you are aiming at a target, you need to keep holding the joystick at exactly the angle it is at to maintain that aim. If you let the stick go back to center, you look forwards instead. Holding a stick at exactly the same position is not easy unless the stick has a huge "throw" (The taller a stick is and thus the distance the top of the stick moves in real world terms. A joypad stick has a tiny throw, a flight stick has a large throw) - also an unsprung stick will be easy to hold at the same position, a sprung stick will not.
So therefore you end up having to map the absolute axis of a joystick in a relative manner - ie neutral stick means no change, stick left means twist left, if you hold the stick left it keeps twisting left.
This is where the problem creeps in - on a stick, if you are tracking a target moving from left to right, you are holding the stick right. If that target suddenly starts moving in the opposite direction, you have to move the stick past neutral to the left. The larger the throw of the stick, the longer real world distance your hand has to move to go from right deflection to left deflection.
This is why a stick cannot compare to a mouse for aiming - in the same situation with a mouse, the second the target switches direction, you simply stop moving the mouse in that direction (Much quicker than centering a stick) and start moving in the opposite direction.

This is also the reason that you do not see FPS games where PC and console players are on the same servers - it is perfectly technically possible, but the console players get WTFPwned by the PC (mouse) players, so they have to be segregated.

The ideal control setup for a mech would be a stick in the off hand controlling turning and acceleration (ideally with the y axis unsprung) and a mouse in the main hand for aiming.

To answer the question about looking in a direction other than that which you are facing - obviously your ideal solution would be either triple monitor, head tracking, or both.

Seeing as head tracking is considerably cheaper to obtain than buying two more monitors and potentially a video card (Less than the cost of the game for a cheapo webcam, FaceTrackNoIR as the software) it is clearly the best option. Let's just hope that head tracking makes it into the game.

[Gremlich Johns]

Diomed, on 03 June 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

I like to see my mech that I am driving, this adds to the immersion for me.

Do you realize how vain this makes you sound? Also, how do you drive a car?

No 3rd person view.

[Promptus]

TrackIR. Just lean forward and look out the window.

[ygalion]

New games are all about reality- if there will be more mecha control, like speed, moving directions different from looking direction, all like it should be in real mech, a lot of like it was in mechwarrior, not just (WASD) control, but also shouldnt be ultra hard control system.

[Roland]

Diomed, on 03 June 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

The game should have an option to use a 3rd person camera. I like to see my mech that I am driving, this adds to the immersion for me. I do not feel like I am driving a mech when I am staring at a cockpit.

Err... you realize that if you were actually driving a mech, you would be staring at the cockpit, right?

[Forscythe]

I think if you dont have the option hover outside your mech to view terrain, you will be forced to pick what type of terrain to fight in. Hopefully you will have the cunning and planning to be able to lure your opponent into favorable terrain for your fight.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I like how people think certain tactics are 'noob' or 'lowering your skills to the lowest common denominator.' It really does amuse me. Any tactic, that allows you to take the tactical upper hand by controlling the engagement is a tactic you should be using. Be it forcing a fight into a circle of death or legging someone or forcing multiple enemies into a choke point. Do it. Don't complain if it is done to you, turn around, do it to them! Also, I saw in a post above me that said "Bad Pilots Cannot Keep Up" this is absolutely laughable in its audacity. Saying it is a bad pilot who cannot keep with a mech that has the capability of exceeding 140kph while giving pursuit in a mech capable of less than HALF that is like saying its a bad pilot in a Raven that cannot take down a Dire Wolf solo. An assault mech has 0 chance by physical design and weight, unless its stripped of everything cannot hope to keep that kind of pace. Also, a scout cannot hope to take an assault solo, by physical design limitations of the machines involved.

[Renan Ruivo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 03 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

I am from Clan Wolf. I will die at the controls of my battlemech, I will die for Clan Wolf.
For those who ask: If your loyal to Clan Wolf why the Kurita banner? I say: Simple, had no other decent choice. Give me the clans!

Well in that case i belive Davion is better ....