171 replies to this topic

[Radko]

Anti-tank warheads work by using a shaped charge to direct an explosive lance directly into the target, punching a hole through armor. While MWO obviously isn't real life, it seems absurd that a battlemech, some kind of armored future space robot comparable to a tank, would care about an eleven pound missile exploding several meters away.

Note: That's not eleven pounds of explosives. That is the entire missile, plus ammo feed. The actual explosive is probably less than a hand grenade.


Splash damage continues to prove computationally difficult, buggy, unstable, and perhaps impossible to balance.

Why not merely require missiles to hit the target to cause damage?

Edited by Radko, 21 March 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[von Pilsner]

Splash is a good game mechanic, just because they had a problem or 2 is no reason to remove it.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Agreed. Missile shrapnel and blast fronts should be essentially irrelevant to an armored Mech, and even if it could conceivably affect a mech whose armor has been stripped, it's just too marginal a case to be worth simulating, given how glitch-prone it's proving to be.

Pilsner, what makes it a good game mechanic?

Edited by RiotGearEpsilon, 21 March 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Radko]

von Pilsner, on 21 March 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Splash is a good game mechanic

Why?

[Braggart]

They shouldnt. They already do more damage than their tabletop selves.

The splash is also one of the reasons they are so powerful, as they not only brutalize the spot they hit, but also whats next to it.

[Livewyr]

Why yes..

Because explosions are pinpoint..

[MustrumRidcully]

MrPenguin, on 21 March 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

When you're shooting 15 missles, you're shooting 15 individual missles. If only 10 hit the CT and 5 hit the LT, then the LT takes the damage of 5 missles and the CT takes the damage of 10. (If its all working properly)

I have absolutely no idea why you have problems grasping this.


Because if you fire multiple rounds, it doesn't make much sense that the rounds that hit the side torso's don't count.

That is not what we are talking about.

We are talking about one missile dealing damage to multiple locations.

And we're talking macroscopic objects here, not photons behaving like a wave and going through both slits.

[Radko]

MrPenguin, on 21 March 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

When you're shooting 15 missles, you're shooting 15 individual missles. If only 10 hit the CT and 5 hit the LT, then the LT takes the damage of 5 missles and the CT takes the damage of 10. (If its all working properly)

What does that have to do with splash damage?

Also, that's not how it works. Missiles are causing impact damage and also splash damage to that and other components.

Quote

Because if you fire multiple missiles, it doesn't make much sense that the missiles that hit the side torso's don't count.

What on earth are you talking about?

Livewyr, on 21 March 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Why yes..

Because explosions are pinpoint..

http://en.wikipedia....i/Shaped_charge

Edited by Radko, 21 March 2013 - 10:13 AM.

[MrPenguin]

MustrumRidcully, on 21 March 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

That is not what we are talking about.

We are talking about one missile dealing damage to multiple locations.

Oh, I see. That makes much more sense.

[Livewyr]

Radko, on 21 March 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....i/Shaped_charge

I dare you to stand next to the watermelon I'm shooting with an RPG-7 (tis a shaped charge)

[Taemien]

Splash makes sense when you hit inbetween two components. But it should distribute the damage. If it hits right in the middle, a SRM2 should deal 2.5 damage per, not 5 to each.

Edited by Taemien, 21 March 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[MrPenguin]

Radko, on 21 March 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

What on earth are you talking about?

Nevermind, thought you where talking about something else.

[Vermaxx]

MrPenguin, on 21 March 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

When you're shooting 15 missles, you're shooting 15 individual missles. If only 10 hit the CT and 5 hit the LT, then the LT takes the damage of 5 missles and the CT takes the damage of 10. (If its all working properly)

I have absolutely no idea why you have problems grasping this.


Because if you fire multiple missiles, it doesn't make much sense that the missiles that hit the side torso's don't count.

This is not splash damage, this is individual hit detection per projectile. I guess you could CALL it splash, if you assume the LRM cloud is one thing.

Splash means each missile can damage more than one place. This should never happen, unless the total damage ADDS UP TO THE FIGURE OF ONE MISSILE. I think that would probably suck, and was likely a reason LRM were really bad for a while, if this has been going on for months. Splitting up the damage of a low-damage missile makes the effect more like sandpaper and less like an antimech weapon.

[Zyllos]

I always thought the splash damage was a way to balance missiles to spreading their damage.

Thus, a LRM that hits dead CT on a Commando would probably deal 0.9 to the CT, and 0.45 to the LT and RT. But apparently their logic was leading to missiles dealing more damage than an LRM could normally deal (1.8 damage per LRM).

Unless it is implemented in this fashion, splash damage just needs to be removed for missiles altogether.

[Radko]

Livewyr, on 21 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

I dare you to stand next to the watermelon I'm shooting with an RPG-7 (tis a shaped charge)

I'm not a battlemech or a tank.

Also, an RPG-7 is larger and heavier than an LRM.

[Livewyr]

I think missiles should do their damage in splash, across the area effect.

soo.. example being:

1.8 damage hits CT

Does 1pt to CT
Does .4pt to RT
Does .4pt to LT..

(And when total damage is brought down, scale accordingly.)

[Braggart]

MrPenguin, on 21 March 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

When you're shooting 15 missles, you're shooting 15 individual missles. If only 10 hit the CT and 5 hit the LT, then the LT takes the damage of 5 missles and the CT takes the damage of 10. (If its all working properly)

I have absolutely no idea why you have problems grasping this.


Because if you fire multiple missiles, it doesn't make much sense that the missiles that hit the side torso's don't count.

Because if 10 missles hit the CT near the LT, then the CT takes 10 missles worth of damage, and then the LT is taking splash damage from those 10 missles also. Which causes more damage than the missles are suppose to do. Thats not counting the 5 that landed on the Left torso and then splashed their damage onto the CT.

the LRM 15 is suppose to do 27 damage max if everything hits, with splash damage, you could under perfect circumstances cause 54 damage total because of splash. And on a small mech like the commando, it can splash all armor locations for 10X the damage.

If they want splash damage, then the direct damage has to go.

[Commander Kobold]

missles explode so yes, should have splash damage, just not as much as they have now XD

[Livewyr]

Radko, on 21 March 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I'm not a battlemech or a tank.

Also, an RPG-7 is larger and heavier than an LRM.

You are aware that the RPG is a Rocket-Propelled-Grenade correct? It's not that big.. (trust me.. I know)

[Zyllos]

Quote

[color="#b27204"]http://en.wikipedia....i/Shaped_charge[/color]

While off topic, I noticed something interesting in that wiki article:

Quote

Some materials used (especially gallium phosphate [2] or tourmaline) have an extreme stability even at high temperature, enabling sensors to have a working range of up to 1000 °C.

Is this why the Tourmaline Desert map was created? We are fighting over materials used for shaped charges?