673 replies to this topic

[Ewigan]

It sounds ok, maybe even a bit harsh.

Can't wait to try it out over the weekend though

[INSEkT L0GIC]

NoxMorbis, on 21 March 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

PAtch:

Good = LRM
Bad = SRMs

SRMs are effctive a nonstarter now.

I think your analysis may be biased.

It took 24 SRM's at a stock Atlas D (Rear), 24 SRM's to a stock A1 Cat (Rear), and 32 SRMS on a stock Jenner (Front) to kill them.

It took 100LRMs on a stock Commando 1B (Front), another stock Commando took about 70LRMS (Front), 100LRMS on a stock Cicada (Side), 80LRMS on a stock Catapult (Front), to kill.

Not too weak, and not OP to me.. seems just about right.. at least from a TT / competitive gameplay perspective..

[Xerxys]

Strucker, on 21 March 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

And let the 3L's QQing about the loss of their ez-mode as uncontested only viable light mech begin.

I tore the hell out of 3Ls unless they had help with the other two Raven chassis. I had to carefully measure and lead them with my SRM6, but I learned. That is all up to the pilot, but I'll agree that the 3L was ez mode.

I'm not a fan of LRMs. I don't like how easy they are to dodge. That being said, how the hell were you people getting cored by them unless you were complete morons and walking out into open areas. You can't blame a weapon system for your lack of intelligent play. Use that thing god erected on top of your necks and move from cover to cover. You'll live longer and you won't have to ***** about LRM damage being rediculous, and it was rediculous. The crying that spurred this nerf was valid in my honest opinion, but PGI went WAY overboard with it.

Someone on these forums had made a very valid point that while this nerf effects the splatcat to some degree, it makes light mechs virtually useless. I'll most likely rip off my SSRMs and run lasers with more DHS because these things are so damned useless now. Yes I run the Raven 3L, at least at the moment. I've also run the two other Raven chassis and considering the weapons that are available to these chassis they very much depend on SRMs/SSRMs. With this latest hotfix, though, they can't use these weapons as the damage just isn't there.

And you people that are comparing the missile and laser to the ACs I can only say this: I've never notice the AC to have any type of spash damage. All the damage of the weapon seems to reside only in the area it strikes. So that 20 points of damage is done to one area of the mech where the missiles are (as you have even admitted) spread throughout the surrounding areas. Lasers have to be kept on target for the duration of the beam to be confined to one area. The damage done between these weapon systems are so completely different that you can't make comparisons of damage per ton IMHO. Even PPCs have to deal with this splash damage. In fact, I think ballistics are the only weapons that actually contain their damage to the area that's struck and unless you're entirely inept at aiming you're going to kill much much sooner than any of the other weapon systems.

I wouldn't mind seeing ballistic weapon damage degraded a bit, increase missile weapon damage a bit and I think we would have a well rounded and equal damage balance between the weapons. PGI would have to increase the ammo for the weapons a bit, though.

As was stated, this is only a temporary fix. I'm sure that things will find a balance, I'm just hoping that we don't have to wait months before it happens. I fully agree with the gentlemen that stated you can't change too many things at a time if you want to find the problem and have a hope of fixing it. Small changes and one at a time.

[Caleb Lee]

All I can say is LRMs can still rock a mech it just now takes an extra volley or two. Damage feels much better, maybe boost about 10% and increase flight time.

I still see them tightly grouped and coring one spot out. I still see splat cats leading damage boards in the smaller maps.

I'm glad these changes went into effect as it helps level the playing field a bit more and LRMs have and always will be a support weapon not a one volley wonder cheese mode they had become.

Classic quote from a game tonight where enemy team had two LRM boats a Stalker and Jaegermech. Our Cataphract had headed out into the open and was killed in about 2 volleys. His request was "Where is our counter barrage."

[Karl Split]

Thankyou for the update and fix Paul and co please keep up the good work.

And now.....

OMG JENNERS ARE SOO OP NERF!!!! Lol #ahem# ill be in my jenner killing ravens if you need me

[Exinferis]

In my opinion the missiles were too strong, but I think the nerv is way too much. I am not a LRM-player, always using my various Cents.
But it was "playable" with the strong LRMs. You just had to find a way through it.
Use the terrain, dodge, use different ways to get to the enemy, make use of your snipers in the team when they stay oor of the lrms and so on.
Just ask the people who met me on the field. No matter which kind of LRM-boat there is, there is always a way to get it down. Use your brain, use tactics.
I think the nerv would be better if it was something in between.

[Chaos7]

Guess what ... I am now buying a Jenner

[Caleb Lee]

Omni 13, on 21 March 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

from what I hear SRMs are still working rather well it's the LRMs that can seem to kill anything anymore unless you boat them an mass (60+) or your target is dim witted and stands there for 10+ volleys and lets you kill him.

Think the 10+ volleys is a bit over the top. My feel in game is it takes another volley or two to kill a target than pre-19th damage levels. This is a bit dramatic as the damage feels more like it should and not a one shot wonder for Stalkers boating 5x 20 LRM. As is it takes two volleys to kill a Cataphract 70 Ton mech instead of a single volley.

Considering what those same mechs can do in return, I think this will encourage people to build balanced mechs as assaults won't drop in just a couple of volleys and will require 3-4; which is NOT a bad thing, or work more as a team.

Xerxys, on 22 March 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

I tore the hell out of 3Ls unless they had help with the other two Raven chassis. I had to carefully measure and lead them with my SRM6, but I learned. That is all up to the pilot, but I'll agree that the 3L was ez mode..

Aye, and now 3Ls are on even footing with Jenners again, hopefully we'll see more of them on the battlefield. Actually, I already am starting to see more variety in the light mech to Cicada range.

[CanadianBacon]

This seems like a drastic change. I agree LRM's needed to be changed, but this seems a little too much. Maybe I'm wrong and it will work as intended.


Thanks for listening to us and working on a fix so quickly!

[Peiper]

Now to make ECM work like tabletop instead of a cloaking device and missle lock-preventor and bingo!

The whole game becomes balanced and beautiful!

[Rahjan Tyrian]

WTF
Why can not you accept the values ​​from the board game that is so difficult?
Is there any compelling reason not to do it?
LRM 1 rocket / 1dmg
SRM 1 rocket / 2dmg

Likewise for energy weapons

[Lyrik]

Rahjan Tyrian, on 22 March 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

WTF
Why can not you accept the values ​​from the board game that is so difficult?
Is there any compelling reason not to do it?
LRM 1 rocket / 1dmg
SRM 1 rocket / 2dmg

Likewise for energy weapons

Because a Tabletop and a FPS doesn't work in the same way? Read the entire text. If you a have a reading disability let you help by another person!

They need the splash damage because without it ALL the missiles are hitting a single location. That would be bad. So you got less damage with splash.

And now the missiles are doing TT damage ;-)

[wonator]

Paul Inouye, on 21 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

LRMs drop from 1.8 damage per missile to 0.7 damage per missile.
SRMs drop from 2.5 damage per missile to 1.5 damage per missile.

Hidden message: We have no idea whats wrong, so lets nerf it so no one right in head will use them until we find out.

[qki]

Before the hotfix, a good game in my 3L raven was in the 500-700 damage range. As fun as it was, that's off the charts for a light. Now, a really good game for me (3 kills, 3 assists) was 350-ish damage (still topped the charts).

[Kmieciu]

Nacon, on 21 March 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

FIX THE AMMO.

Ammo still do internal damage at 1.7 (LRM) and 2.5 (SRM).

However, please increase the ammo supply per ton to make up for this loss of damage effect.
So far I'm ok with the damage and the splash effect. Just please don't forget the ammo.

Incorrect. LRM ammo does 1.8 damage when exploding inside your mech.

[Xerxys]

Lyrik, on 22 March 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

Because a Tabletop and a FPS doesn't work in the same way? Read the entire text. If you a have a reading disability let you help by another person!

They need the splash damage because without it ALL the missiles are hitting a single location. That would be bad. So you got less damage with splash.

And now the missiles are doing TT damage ;-)

Says who? The same people that make 2-3 changes to a problem while trying to diagnose it? I'm actually getting a bit tired of the rubber band method of PGI in it's attempts to fix the problem.

They could have gone to the TT values even adding a small splash if they wanted. You're looking at .3 damage increase for LRMs and a .5 increase to SRMs from where they are now. The LRMs would have been cut almost in half and the SRMs would have been cut sufficiently methinks. This whole splash effect has gotten entirely carried away. It started with PPCs and has now gone to missiles. It's enough and it's not working if weapons feel this underpowered.

Imagine how underwhelming the AC/20 would be if 30%+ of it's total damage was spread around to surrounding areas. It would at least bring all weapon systems into alignment. I've watched ACs and Gauss. They are the only weapons that do not spread their damage via splash, giving them a decided advantage that wasn't before and shouldn't be there.

I'll be the first to admit that missiles were over powering even before the 19th patch, but only just. Imagine if PGI had cut the weapons to their TT values and answer honestly; Would those cuts have been enough? I truly believe they would have been and perhaps another minor tweak would have been required. That's what I like to call "fine tuning". It would have been enough to appease the masses and I firmly believe that people would have seen it as just right.


I see a lot of people saying that LRMs are a support weapons. True, but they are also a suppression weapon mean to be powerful enough that poking your head out from cover might not be a very good idea. They have lost both of these roles if mechs stand brazenly in the wide open and don't even move when they see missiles coming their way.

Edited by Xerxys, 22 March 2013 - 01:31 AM.

[Featherwood]

I have now constant microlags and flashbacks (mech returned at its position 1-2 seconds ago), even disconnections at times. My ping is stable, no ISP issues.

[Chino]

Only fix that was needed was to change LRM ammo size like 180 lrm ammo taking 2 critical slots or 360 taking slots.
Why?
Whit this size U cant boat effectively,cant take EndoSteel... since no space . If U want take more ammo (like typical boat does) U have put it into vulnerable spots like arms and legs.

[qki]

because it would make it impossible to recreate some canon designs, and that's bad - all the weight/crit spaces have to stay.

[Kmieciu]

VOHRIMENKO, on 22 March 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Guess what ... I am now buying a Jenner

Guess what! I never sold mine!
JR7-F => 2xSL+4xML+2xJJ = better speed, maneuverability and more pinpoint DPS than a Raven.