673 replies to this topic

[Lord Banshee]

Drastic situations often require drastic solutions.
Hopefully we're all headshot less by LuRMs now, and footshot less too.
Now let's see if they're useless, as overcompensation is usually what happens...

[Pariah Devalis]

[Solis Obscuri]

So basically missiles are now doing TT damage, but it's split between missile damage and splash damage? That doesn't sound too bad.

[ICEFANG13]

I disagree with the large damage nerf, and I was actually a fan of making LRMs do 1 and SRMs do 2 (as well as other things to make them more effective). However, I am happy to not whine about it and try it out like you asked, as long as you take the feed back <3

I appreciate your work in this matter, although I disagree with it at this time.

[Vermaxx]

So they take some liberties with the math (since THIS ISN'T TABLETOP RRRAAAAAWR, for you anti TT heads), and yet they end up with basically the same figures as tabletop modified to work in a first person environment.

Funny how a game made (and revised) over 20 years is more and more apropos here.

I was afraid this was the reason splash damage existed at all - to normalize and distribute missile hits in a way the trajectories simply could not. You can't replicate tabletop hits for missiles without making missiles simply roll their hits irrespective of their incoming trajectory aside from which "facing" of the mech they hit. Tabletop was many things, but it was clearly not intended for port to first person gaming.

It would be interesting to see a game patch for a while where missiles literally roll on the 'hit chart' straight out of BT, based (as best as the game can determine with moving targets instead of game board pieces) on what "facing" the missiles hit. I would love to see if missiles are viable or not using TRUE tabletop rules. Course that implies the game can HANDLE letting missiles 'roll to hit' instead of controlling the variables of trajectory, grouping density, and speed...and letting missiles hit what ballistic trajectory and digital physics dictates.

Edited by Vermaxx, 21 March 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Commander Binz]

Thank you guys, this seems like a good, temporary fix.

Good luck with the testing!

[Banse]

Stoicblitzer, on 21 March 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

I thought they doubled the armor from TT values so now LRMs do half damage?

Stoicblitzer, don't forget that fire rate was increased also. IIRC this was done so that combat encounters would go a little bit faster than TT (double armor, 2-3 times weapon fire rate, better accuracy).

[Death Dealer 199]

hey just hit a mech with 4 lrm 15 volleys with artemis at 250 meters and he did not die. LRMS are totaly broke now.

[Agent Pires]

They've nerfed the LRMs too much. I'm not an LRM user but even a 60 LRM salvo should hurt at most it oranges my jagermech.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Noesis, on 21 March 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

People need to re-read the post as the damage numbers as quoted refer to the impact damage and people are forgetting to include the additional splash component to them.

(Please try not to interpret as per the "spreadsheet warrior online" mode)

ye I see PGI have no clue how splash should work...

Edited by JudgeDeathCZ, 21 March 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[NinetyProof]

Arcadian Xero, on 21 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

I am at a loss for words as to how hilariously useless missiles will now be. I have to question your logic and testing methods.

Obviously you where not playing last night where Mediums were being taken out with 1 LRM20 salvo.

[Mild Monkey]

My srm damage is back to normal. Those LRMS weren't hitting me before and aren't hitting me now, so don't ask me about them

[Sgt Disciple]

op to nerf to op again and back to near uselessness

[Barnaby Jones]

so a change in the latest patch borked your lrms up.

and instead of reverting lrms to prepatch and then reevaluating how to implement the lrm change again without the borked effect, you decide to change something else entirely (dps in the form of damage per missle) and nerf the splash damage via smaller radius AND linear dropof of splash from point of impact (three seperate nerfs), in order to arrive at what you feel to be the appropriate amount of damage for the weapon.

You then test your numbers and tweak them till you get the desired result, and you do ALL OF THIS IN THE SPAN OF TWO DAYS. Given that the (proported) pretesting of these builds prior to release was most likely longer than 2 days, and the borked LRMS made it through THAT "highy detailed and strenuous" testing, how are we supposed to buy into the idea that this hot fix is anything other than a bandaid other than an ACTUAL FIX?

[Mild Monkey]

NinetyProof, on 21 March 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Obviously you where not playing last night where Mediums were being taken out with 1 LRM20 salvo.

or taking out Stalkers with 2 srm salvos to the CT (hitting the head due to splash overlap)

[Pariah Devalis]

Agent Pires, on 21 March 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

They've nerfed the LRMs too much. I'm not an LRM user but even a 60 LRM salvo should hurt at most it oranges my jagermech.

Sounds good to me. LRMs are supposed to be primarily support weapons, or secondary weapon systems otherwise. Yellow/Orange damage from self guided weapon systems is far and away better IMO then armor stripping madness.

[EvangelionUnit]

MadPanda, on 21 March 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Back in the days when LRM damage was 1.6, everybody thought LRM's are useless. You dropped the damage now to 0.7. Really? If you don't want me to freak out, then tell me how the behavior of LRM's has actually changed that such a huge damage drop is "okay". If the lrm's work same as always, then you just killed a whole weapon type. Welcome laserwarrior online.

0.7 dmg on impact, 40% of these 0.7 on everything in a 1.7m sphere around the impact point * number of your LRM launcher ....

you don't want to say me that this sounds like a small number to you ?! its like a LB10X for 100m with a much tighter grouping ...
same goes for SRMs

[Chrithu]

Death Dealer 199, on 21 March 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

So what you did was take a wepon that uesd to be able to do 17 point of damage (lrm 15) and nerf it to 10.5. This will totally break this wepons system. Why even carry a LMR. Spit balls now do more damage.

You didn't read did you?

It's 10.5 + another 4.2+ assuming each missile hits at least one another component through splash damage.

Also your start of 17 points for an LRM 15 are wrong on many levels. 1.8 per missile x 15 missiles = 27 potential points of damage per volley. WITHOUT any splash damage which allways was dealt additionally (and in my part is a serious design flaw to begin the damage system with). Which is WAY beyond any other weapon that has comparable weight and ammo consumption.

But the number magic mumbo jumbo aside:

Paul said to judge the change by feel not by calculation. And he is right. Without knowing the specifics of the splash system there is no way to correctly judge the system by trying to calculate what your damage on a given target will be.


Now to answer to Paul:

In my view the biggest problem you have is that splash damage is dealt in addition to the hit location damage, which could cascade to insane amounts if many components were lying within the splash radius or close to the center (caused by the way it is implemented as far as I understand it from the info you are giving). In my view (if that is doable implementation wise) the system should apply the weapon damage of say 2.5 for a SRM Missile as before across the splash radius in a gaussian distribution meaning the total damage within the splash radius adds up to 2.5 with the majority being applied in the center and successively less being applied the further away from center it's applied. This way Splash damage becomes independent of the target and can no longer cascade. Also it would be easier to balance because you can easily change either total damage, splash radius or damage distribution within the radius or all three. I hope it becomes clear what I mean.

Edited by Jason Parker, 21 March 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

tried missiles they don't headshot at all anymore but it takes 3-4 volleys of 2 A-LRM15s +tag to kill a stationary jenner (DC at start of match) that doesn't seem right.(also the missiles where swirly so I was getting the artemis bonus,was about 3-400 meters away)

[stjobe]

It looks (and FEELS) a lot better now.

First drop in a triple ASRM-6 CN9 brawler, got through a couple of LRM rains with medium damage, had to work a lot harder for my SRM kills, and in the end died to LRMs.

Second drop in a ERPPC+ASRM-4 Commando, got killed by SRMs to the LT.

Preliminary verdict: LRMs (and SRMs) are now back to where they should be. Powerful, but not overshadowing every other weapon system.