2002 replies to this topic

[Franchi]

John MatriX82, on 23 March 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Yep a statement could be really nice.

This is a great deal and they'll run into loads of problems for this. Right now ELO isn't working well, since most of the time your high elo is compensated by adding in your team low skilled players or the other side features tonnage advantages of 100 to 250 tons, without accounting all the disconnects, afks 6vs7 matches and so on.

Segregate 3rd person players and the mess is finally done. The whole idea is dumb, countless troubles rose in MW4 with cheats.. and I'm pretty sure somebody will work it out to have 3rd person also in strictly 1st person games. It's natural, you give the option, no matter how hard you conceal it, haxxors will unveil it nevertheless.



That's for sure, but given the amount of interest of the whole community.. I think it's a normal uproar, and they kept getting uproared but don't eve seem to listen.

I made a post earlier pointing out that they don't have the population for Elo alone and that a 3rd person view split will make the game unplayable, the post was deleted.

250 tons is nothing, it gets really fun when you're down 400 or more or worse up by 400 tons on alpine conquest.

They need to come right out and admit they are going to combine 1st and 3rd person not telling us now and doing it latter (they will) will kill any credibility they have left.

Edited by Franchi, 23 March 2013 - 06:59 AM.

[Flyby215]

Third person is great for testing grounds and/or any kind of training mission/map/option that will some day be implemented.

Perhaps for real matches, however, we can make it cost a Command Console (for the fancy computer screens) and BAP (the actual camera) in order to activate third person. The ability to see around hills and around buildings in a real match comes at a price. A dedicated module can remove the need for CC and/or BAP.

(Sorry if already suggested)

Edited by Flyby215, 23 March 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[Nonsense]

I've posted what I think already and "liked" several posts that I thought added important ideas or had ideas well said, but I figured I'd add something else.

I think it's important to note something that you all have sort of missed in your development. I thought it would be fixed with the addition of Elo and the later phases of matchmaking, but it has largely been ignored (at least publicly).

Being a F2P game that has many similarities to League of Legends (dual cash/game currency style, avoidance of P2W, XP-based progression,), MWO fails to borrow a key matchmaking component from LoL which helps make it successful. That component is a player's account level and a player's ability to select a skill level when they first make an account.

If anyone's not familiar, when you make a LoL account, you start at level 1 and you can select whether you're a veteran player (you've played DOTA before, etc) or if you're totally unfamiliar with this type of game. This affects your initial matchmaking so that total newbs don't get matched to veterans. Further, you can't play ranked games until you get to level 30, and level 30 players are almost never matched against new low-level players. This doesn't mean all level 30 players are somehow equal or that veteran players don't make new accounts, but it does mean that new players are sort of segregated until they get some experience.

Now, how does this relate to 3rd person view? Well, if you all truly want to make it a "training wheels" thing, you could easily implement a leveling system like LoL's and make it so that 3PV is available at the beginning but that at some point when they reach a certain level, they have to choose to continue playing with training wheels in unranked games or switch to FPV only, possibly knowing that ranked games and possibly community warfare are FPV-only.

This would also loosen your need to heavily restrict/neuter the 3PV play experience.

Above all, as a veteran/core player, it's VERY strange to have you all implement things like the cockpit/startup sequence thing (which increases traditional FPV MechWarrior immersion quite a bit) only to have you start talking about 3PV a month or two later.

As people have said a ton of times in this thread, you have to decide what kind of game you're going to make. Just make that game and stop being tempted by thoughts of "oh if we just implement this, we can grab this other player demographic". Stop forgetting that grabbing other player demographics sometimes loses chunks of your core fan base.

Stop going down these paths...ESPECIALLY when the core game isn't even finished and community warfare isn't even in yet!

[Chet Beefstrong]

I think 3PV is an excellent idea. It opens up the market to players who just dont like FPS games.

It radically alters the Player's situational awareness, and in a sense creates a whole new game in terms of strategy and tactics. It offers a change of pace and perspective for veteran gamers, as well as an easier entry to the world of Mechwarrior for people who are discovering it for the first time.

And, darn it, sometimes i just want to see my pretty paint job in motion. LOL

I think the impact of 3PV on the hardcore, old-school grognards will be minimal while the potential for tapping new markets and making the MW franchise more successful over-all that it offers are great.

[Sir Fuzzy]

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Honest answer.

The analysis on those who voted, showed that the majority of votes came from a very narrow demographic of our player base. And while they represent some of core players, they did not necessarily represent the opinion of the general user base. The majority of our players never visit, post, or read the forum content, so the poll could be considered weighted in favour of a specific demographic.

Since the majority of players who have an issue with 3rd person come generally from the core players, we elected to address this issue via this forum post to collect all of the concerns and ideas that this group faces or has with 3rd person.

RedDragon, on 23 March 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

I really can't believe you said this, Bryan. So basically you are telling us that the guys posting here (Founders, members of Closed Beta, long-time fans) don't matter when business decisions are made. You rather cater to an undefined "majority" of players who care so much about this game that they don't even read the forums

Nope, not what he said at all.. but way to be melodramatic. I mean.. wow. All he said was that a forum poll isn't going to determine their business decisions.

LOL! Can you imagine what a horrible business model that would be if they based their decisions off what forum trolls thought they should do?

Look at every MMO ever made. The forums are filled to the brim with people screaming bloody murder and doom over every little thing. According to the forums WoW should have died out in the first 6 months for over 100 different reasons.

The MWO Devs are actually asking YOU, CORE PLAYERS for constructive ideas on how to implement it. The fact they care enough to gather all your ideas means ALOT.

Whine all you want and ragequit and so on so forth. My money is on this game having a bright future ahead of it with Devs who actually care about their core player base.

Edited by Sir Fuzzy, 23 March 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[AlexEss]

Alois Hammer, on 23 March 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

More likely scenario: 3rd person loses the poll by a margin of, say, around 4500 against to 198 in favor, PGI says "We don't care, millions of phantom non-players have begged us for this feature, so we're implementing it anyway."

I just have to ask... Do you know every potential and current MWO player personally...? Seeing as you seem very sure that anyone who do not agree with your opinion is "fake"

Let me paint you a picture.. it is a picture of a cake... strawberry and cream... now let's say we cut out 1/10th of it and set it on a plate. That is the forum going userbase in comparison to the total userbase (number are for demonstrative sourpuss only). Not you split that cake in to, lets say one part that is 2/10th of the slice and one that is 8/10th of the slice... that 8/10th is the part of the forum that say no to 3PV. Do you notice how small it is compared to the rest of the cake... That is why they need to weight all opinions equally. Also i think i am being generous in my splitting of the cake and slice.

And that is why a poll here is pointless. I think the devs by now know that a decent chunk of the "core" fans do not want 3PV.

I personally is looking forward to a CC post on how the devs intend to implement it and then have a chance to try it out and provide my feedback on what i think works and don't work.

[Franchi]

DCM Zeus, on 23 March 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

Want more people to come and play, post the game on steam.

No need for 3rd person, ever!

Well steam did have WARZ up for a while didn't it? I guess they would put MWO on.

[Sears]

What would be nice, considering they want our feedback and people like to make polls that once they have collected data from this thread they offer up a poll so every one has the opportunity to vote on how they would have 3rd person added to the game. Then being a sanctioned IGP/PGI pole it could be circulated via facebook and twitter and the featured on the Launcher so every sees it's there and can have a say.

[Sir Fuzzy]

DCM Zeus, on 23 March 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

Want more people to come and play, post the game on steam.

No need for 3rd person, ever!

Actually a pretty good idea.

I am open-minded about the whole 3rd person thing (I think it should be an in-game toggle for everyone if it is there though) but honestly don't care that much either way. It will still be a good game.

Put it on steam, forget about the whole 3rd person thing for now, and charge on into the Clan Invasion with all your resources focused on making the game launch quality. Worry about little add-ons like 3rd person further down the line if you want.

[Terran123rd]

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

• Camera is locked horizontally to the torso. This is not a peek around corners mode.
  
• Camera is locked vertically to the torso, you can only look up and down as far as your torso can.
  
• When approaching cover (to rocks/building etc), the camera pulls IN so FoV is greatly reduced when standing close to something.
  
• 3rd Person is not a free-cam.
  
• HUD will be significantly reduced if not completely removed.
  
• LOS targetting is NOT affected by 3rd person. If you cannot target it from 1st person, you cannot target it in 3rd.
  
• ONLY the targeted enemy (Press R) can be identified in 3rd person... all other HUD indicators are turned off.

I fully approve of all of these and I can't wait for 3rd person to get implemented.

[Sears]

DCM Zeus, on 23 March 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

What I find funny is that the first poll had over 3000+ votes of no and about 100 yes.

This current one is on it's way there, but needs more attention.

Everyone here needs to be voting.


http://mwomercs.com/...s-poll-revived/

• This is a BAD idea, as it will break the game, so, NO. (1286 votes [86.14%])
  
• This is a GOOD Idea, let us have our 3rd person views, so YES. (98 votes [6.56%])
  
• Do not care or as of yet undecided. (109 votes [7.30%])

I've seen those polls and I believe they got dismissed as representing only core players. People who only visit the forums.

I was suggesting that IGP/PGI do a poll on how they would have 3rd person implemented from the most common suggestions in this thread. Being an official poll it could be linked to different sites as well as in the launcher so that everyone, not just forum goers see it. That way it can't be dismissed.

Edited by Sears, 23 March 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[AlexEss]

DCM Zeus, on 23 March 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

What I find funny is that the first poll had over 3000+ votes of no and about 100 yes.

This current one is on it's way there, but needs more attention.

Everyone here needs to be voting.


http://mwomercs.com/...s-poll-revived/

• This is a BAD idea, as it will break the game, so, NO. (1286 votes [86.14%])
  
• This is a GOOD Idea, let us have our 3rd person views, so YES. (98 votes [6.56%])
  
• Do not care or as of yet undecided. (109 votes [7.30%])

explain to me.. if we go by general knowledge it is said that 1-2%of a games population is active on the official forum... now given the more narrow playerbase of this game lets up it to 10% (this is way higher then i think it is but any way) the 10% have been heard already in a poll that the devs have acknowledge. Why should the word of these 10% weight any heavier then the remaining 90%

Why is your voice worth so much more then guy/gal X at PAX who say they like the game but feel the game is not "right" without 3PV.?

Edited by AlexEss, 23 March 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[muskrat]

although I dont often post on polls. IMHO there is a path to satisfy both player bases.
the NO 3pv players (such as myself) and I want 3pv (to see my mech)

Put in 3rd person view, just do it WITHOUT a firing Reticule

this will allow players who "want to see my own mech once in awhile" to actually be able to SEE it
BUT still keeps COMBAT in the 1st person

Muskrat

[Sir Fuzzy]

RedDragon, on 23 March 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

If PGI really was interested in the user's opinion, they would have made a poll themselves, maybe accessible trhough the game client or at least advertised on the social medias. But as it stands, we only have "our" poll with 4500 votes against 3rd-person and the Dev's word that there's "a huge majority" of players who want it.

An in-game poll isn't a bad idea, but mostly irrelevant as they are looking further down the line and opening up to a new player base.
If they want to grow they can not cater solely to the beta core players. There are only so many MW fans out there. They need new blood. Some sacrifices have to be made.
The Devs want 3rd person. At least they care enough to ask for constructive ideas on implementing it. The "do it and I quit" remarks are as inevitable as the "you don't care about us" ones but if you read through the whole thread quite a few people have some pretty good ideas which which are going to carry a lot more weight than stamping your feet as you leave the room.

[Divine Madcat]

AlexEss, on 23 March 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

explain to me.. if we go by general knowledge it is said that 1-2%of a games population is active on the official forum... now given the more narrow playerbase of this game lets up it to 10% (this is way higher then i think it is but any way) the 10% have been heard already in a poll that the devs have acknowledge. Why should the word of these 10% weight any heavier then the remaining 90%

Why is your voice worth so much more then guy/gal X at PAX who say they like the game but feel the game is not "right" without 3PV.?

Sure, except polls don't work that way. Elections are based on the people who DID vote, not the sum of people who could have voted.

These forums are open to everyone to participate in, and it is plainly clear when you register an account. Frankly, just like elections, if you don't exercise your voice, you really dont have a right to complain that things aren't going the way you like.

If you don't care enough about the game to participate in the community, perhaps your opinion shouldn't matter....

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

And an in game poll is irrelevant as theyve already decided theyre gonna shoehorn this fiasco into the game regardless of if we want it or not.

The matter has been DECIDED people.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

DCM Zeus, on 21 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

THIS IS ONLY FOR PUG MATCHES ONLY AND NOT CW...

LEAVE CW ALONE WITH 1ST PERSON ONLY!!!!!!!

This is a pretty simple solution that should be looked at. I'm of the opinion that the 'competitive advantage' 3pv offers wont amount to that much outside of very high end competitive play, so I think in the pug and 4 man queue its not a huge issue. CW needs to be treated fairly carefully with regards to balance altering features as thats where people are 'playing for keeps' as it were.

[AlexEss]

Divine Madcat, on 23 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Sure, except polls don't work that way. Elections are based on the people who DID vote, not the sum of people who could have voted.

These forums are open to everyone to participate in, and it is plainly clear when you register an account. Frankly, just like elections, if you don't exercise your voice, you really dont have a right to complain that things aren't going the way you like.

If you don't care enough about the game to participate in the community, perhaps your opinion shouldn't matter....

This is not a democratic election process... This is the development of a entertainment product. PGI have to react to all venues of communication such as (but not limited to) Official forums. twitter, facebook, e-mail, surveys, focus groups, public events, press events and i am pretty sure that if you send them a physical letter someone will read that too.

You also need to set your bar to the lowest possible level of entry. thus you can not give everyone a iWin button but you can make sure that as few people as possible are turned away due to complex mechanics. (to this date i think EvE is the only game that have managed to combine a entry bar set around the mile high club and financial success) So while i get why a lot of people feel that 3PV have no place in this game there is not much point in arguing that it shoudl not be in. That ship have sailed. Now we need to focus on making it as solid of a feature as we can because in good democratic order "we" have been down voted.

[Sir Fuzzy]

Divine Madcat, on 23 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Sure, except polls don't work that way. Elections are based on the people who DID vote, not the sum of people who could have voted.

These forums are open to everyone to participate in, and it is plainly clear when you register an account. Frankly, just like elections, if you don't exercise your voice, you really dont have a right to complain that things aren't going the way you like.

If you don't care enough about the game to participate in the community, perhaps your opinion shouldn't matter....

If politics and video games were the same we would all be playing Pong and game Devs would be taking million dollar bribes from massive corporations to adjust the size of the paddle from smaller to bigger and back again year after year.

[silverhydra]

Not only is this a horrible idea to implement, but splitting the playerbase is asinine. Leave it in for training grounds and leave it out everywhere else. If you implement features the way you described, clans are going to have to define whether 3rd person is allowed or prohibited because you give players the option to segregate themselves.