2002 replies to this topic

[Edson Drake]

As I understand, this is to attract the typical FPS fan base(with a Gears of War mentality though).

Kids.

This demographic, while they may get attracted to the pretty graphics, lasers and such, have horrible attention span and they will play this in third person and immediately think "LOL too slow" and get out(heard this a few times already).

We have a quality game here with lots of potential, the demographic PGI is trying to get isn't really a good one, by that I mean the ones that really spend money. Their parents would have to do so, and for that they would need to stay(they usually don't).

But oh well it's PGI decision anyway. I don't mind 3rd person, just think that the demographic PGI is trying to attract is not the the one that will bring cash to them.
Still, I also believe it's better that they don't listen to the fanbase as much as the fanbase wants. Many players really don't know what they want. I know, I work in a software company, that's how it is from the way I see.

[EvilCow]

Edson Drake, on 18 May 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Many players really don't know what they want.

However most know perfectly what they don't want.

[Kasiagora]

I read to page 6 and then stopped due to attention span, which is uncharacteristically good for me. Dur to this post being on page 83 I doubt Bryan is still reading these, I hope so though because I'd like to try providing a little constructive feedback and a suggestion.
I agree with a lot of the things being said here, one being that players shouldn't be allowed to switch back and forth in game, I also believe that there definitely is a large player base that would want 3rd person because they can't figure out how to pilot, and that they're not active on the forums. Frankly, the forums are a small, core contingent of us original gangsters who like things hardcore and although welcoming to new players, we're probably intimidating and off-putting for the most part. We like things a certain way and we get overly defensive and yell out every time something new comes along. lol
Going on that I don't think that 3rd person will split up the player base as badly as many of us oldheads think. All of us are going to stay in 1st person, and the 3rd person is probably going to be mostly played by teen and young 20-somethings that like console gaming and Modern Warfare crap. These players probably don't visit the forums and never will because we don't particularly care for them. Although if we get one to convert we're always so happy.

Anyway, a couple of ideas that have probably already been addressed.
>>One being that with locked in 1st person and 3rd person only modes without switching in game (to reduce exploitation), I think that if the players of each play-type can NOT intermingle, it will cut down on splitting up the player-base. That would be good.
>>I think that being able to toggle out between 1st and 3rd in Training Grounds would be good, although maybe not feasible with my later idea of changing weapon convergence in 3rd person mode.
>>I think that being able to enter training grounds with friends, in a spectator mode where the camera is not static and can be rotated around the mech and turning off the HUD would create a photo mode which a lot of Clans, Corps, and Units would actually enjoy in order to take pictures for faction banners, desktop backgrounds, etc. This could increase a little bit of acceptance and support for some 3rd person viewing with the old dogs at least.
>>The best angle for the camera in actual combat would probably be low, directly behind the center torso/head area. Having the camera only a little raised up would decrease the so-called poptarting ability as much as possible (although I think a lot of the people complaining about this are ridiculous because they're probably the ones in Ilyas popping up from behind buildings with 3 Gauss Rifles. Nothing anyone does will keep people from finding exploits, just like things are being exploited constantly now, just with the buttered up phrasing of "tactics"). If the camera was just far enough back to show the top half of the mech's legs then you'd still be able to have it pretty close in, and I'm thinking of what they'd call a "chase cam" where you're almost but not quite directly behind your mech. The other benefit of having the camera lock in low like this is that right now it takes some practice to get a feel for where your arms are on mechs like a Dragon or an Atlas. That's only going to be compounded when you put a camera way up in the air, or even worse, over one shoulder. The reason why over the shoulder works in many FPSes is because you're a human holding a rifle with the camera nearly sighting along it over your shoulder. In a mech that will be great for one arm, but the other is going to be shooting hill sides and buildings all the time. I think the disconnect from where your weapons are is going to be multiplied exponentially and you'll see accuracy figures on direct fire weapons drop dramatically because of this.
>>Lastly here, you should finally put in an in game VOIP for 3rd person games only. The good and the elitists will stick to our Team Speaks and Mumbles, but if you want to appeal to the console-hooked teens who feel like more of a man by trash talking each other over Xbox Live, you may as well give them the ability to keep doing it.

I know that some of these comments may sound like backhanded advice or ideas. In reality I do think you should branch out for more players and a wider fan base. I may not like those fans, or want it to affect my expirience; but that doesn't mean that I'm against your trying to hook them in a second, separate game mode. Plenty of games have a Hardcore mode and a Kiddy mode. I think it's a good idea. It'll probably mean needing an even more streamlined front end and lobby though. Selecting game modes and readying up as cumbersome as it it. Instead of adding new items to the old menus, you'll probably want to look into laying out all new interactions for mode selection and squad launching.

[HarmAssassin]

This is either a first person shooter or a third person shooter, but mixing the two will kill this game.

[Flux Reversal]

Tip:

Long winded posts get skipped mostly.



I agree with the sentiment that it would split the community. It clearly did in MW4. As it is, we are all here in one spot ATM. And I like the huge community with its two active leagues, that I know of.

[Jestun]

3rd person is great, in a fast-paced arcade action game.

For example, my big shooty robot game used to be Exteel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGCToeoUuHg

But it's not something I want in a sim.

Edited by Jestun, 19 May 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[CyBerkut]

"Pop Tarting" is NOT an exploit. It's a valid tactic that naturally flows from having jump jets.

Being able to 'see' over a hill or building, BEFORE you jump and expose your mech to enemy fire... that does NOT flow naturally result from having JJs.

[DeaconW]

CyBerkut, on 20 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

"Pop Tarting" is NOT an exploit. It's a valid tactic an annoying, game ruining tactic used by people with self esteem problems that naturally flows from having jump jets that have no drawbacks and propel 90 tons mech comically high into the air.

Fixed it for you...

Edited by DeaconW, 20 May 2013 - 02:11 PM.

[CyBerkut]

DeaconW, on 20 May 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Fixed it for you...

I'm not a big fan of it either, but it remains legitimate. If it needs tweaking, then take it up with PGI's devs. It's annoying, but it doesn't ruin the game.

[DeaconW]

CyBerkut, on 20 May 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

I'm not a big fan of it either, but it remains legitimate. If it needs tweaking, then take it up with PGI's devs. It's annoying, but it doesn't ruin the game.

Fortunately PGi has stated they are upping multiple PPC heat and adding JJ shake. Another mechanic that would be awesome is that if you overheat and shutdown while jumpjetting, you fall and take fall damage when you come down.

Here's hoping tomorrow is "poptart QQ Day!"...

[Draco Harkins]

DeaconW, on 20 May 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Fortunately PGi has stated they are upping multiple PPC heat and adding JJ shake. Another mechanic that would be awesome is that if you overheat and shutdown while jumpjetting, you fall and take fall damage when you come down.

Here's hoping tomorrow is "poptart QQ Day!"...

Ohhh it will be, and this time i'm actually going to laugh, because i'll bet that the majority of the QQ'ers will be those same boys that use aimbots and now will see their activity exposed easier...

What remain will be the TRUE SNIPERS and not one shot CT's when JJ'ing on 2 mechs in 5 seconds with one moving at full lateral speed and another with parcial cover. Yes, i saw one today on a highlander doing this.

[TheSteelRhino]

Poptarting is due to broken mechanics. It is not that it is not a viable tactic. But when it becomes the DEFAULT something is wrong. Especially when combined with what appears to be some hit detection issues, and excessive use of boating. I have no problem if you want to jump and shoot. But it should be very difficult.

Additionally PPC's are supposed to be HOT. If you fire 3 erppc at once the techs should be scraping out barbecued mechwarrior from the cockpit if you aren't careful. 6 ppc stalkers should just explode into a ball of plasma ....

[ghouls]

Well all iam gona say is do you PGI think you would be where you are now when you where collecting founders $ for funding this game if you told them 3rd person would be put into play

[Hoaggie]

I suggest that the 3rd person camera should an actual physical device in the game, either a consumable item or it should be an equipable module that floats above and behind the mech.

Whatever solution is decided upon, the camra needs to be destroyabe by enemy fire.

[Darc Horse]

ghouls, on 21 May 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Well all iam gona say is do you PGI think you would be where you are now when you where collecting founders $ for funding this game if you told them 3rd person would be put into play

I'm a founder and old school battletech/MechWarrior player. I have been watching the evolution of this game since the start and lack of 3rd person is one of the reasons I have yet to play. Maybe I will get over it and find time to play before the game leaves open beta but 3rd person view is just one of those standards I've come to expect in simulators like this. Your graphics are nice and I enjoy watching battle vids your players have posted on you tube and the like. Unfortunately that is all the interest I can muster at this point in time without any way to view my mech during a battle. Even if I choose to spend my time playing other games as I am doing now I am happy to have supported those who are keeping the old battletech universe alive so good luck to you!

[Jestun]

Jackson Jax Teller, on 21 May 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

This is a simulator?

Soon it will simulate an invisible and invulnerable camera floating behind all the mechs heads!

To please people who don't know what a simulator is.

[ecued]

thats great your not going to force players to use it but those who don't will get powned, thats the way it was in mw4, you cant play 1st person against some one in 3rd person, doesn't work. so to impliment it will force us all to use it, unless match making is given the option

[xX_Nero_Xx]

roflmao think poptarting is bad now wait for 3rd person having lunacy flashbacks already trying to click my black knight

[DeaconW]

Thontor, on 22 May 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

From the OP:



"Players will never be forced to...play against other players (who are) using 3rd person."

So, it might give an advantage over 1st person, but if you want to play 1st person and only play against other people using 1st person, and not play against 3rd person, you can do that.

Um...they also said they would never consider adding 3PV...so what basis do I have for believing the statement you quoted?

[CyBerkut]

Thontor, on 22 May 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

From the OP:

"Players will never be forced to...play against other players (who are) using 3rd person."

So, it might give an advantage over 1st person, but if you want to play 1st person and only play against other people using 1st person, and not play against 3rd person, you can do that.

Surely, you haven't forgotten the second part of your post in:
http://mwomercs.com/...45#entry2359145