2002 replies to this topic

[DeaconW]

Thontor, on 22 May 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

They never said they would never consider 3pv. Even if you look back at Paul's "link to this when needed" post from way back, he said they would be investigating 3rd person.

Clearly their investigation resulted in a decision to implement it.

From that link "Being the pilot is one of our key design pillars and 3rd person breaks that pillar on multiple levels". Pretty strong statement. And I don't consider using it in matches in game a "special game setting". You can't make that definitive a statement and then do a 180 with it being considered, at the least, disingenuous...devious at worst. If they do allow 3PV in any kind of real game setting, I will consider the original post a bald faced lie.

[TLBFestus]

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

We would like to invite your constructive feedback on how you would like to see 3rd person executed.

Executed would suit me just fine.

Can't say I'm a fan, even if you give options, you are going to segregate the community. That and eventually we will be over run by 3rd person players, thus killing the first person game, does not give me hope.

Personally I think that there are other paths that you could choose to follow that would increase the popularity of the game, Giving new players a mech of their own choice at the outset is one of them. Hell, I'm a founder and I wouldn't object to you giving each player one mech of each wieght class at the start.

Give them something to "own" that they will want to customize, buy equipment for, etc.

I also think you need to review your price structure for using MC to buy mechs. I'm fairly certain that you could drop the prices considerably and sell a lot more of each mech and come out ahead.

I read your suggested limitations on 3rd person, and while they sound like they could minimize the impact of 3rd person, I remain unconvinced that it will work.

When would I want 3rd person?

- In the Mech lab. Big Mechs you can rotate your view of. A view that shows your customizations.

- After I'm knocked out of a match. Allow us to have a Gods eye, 3rd person view of the remaining Mechs and the battle.

- In a Single Player experience. Still can't believe that you can't get funding to do that.


Your earlier visions of Community Warfare are going to be incompatible with 1st and 3rd person, as others have pointed out, there will be some real issues with that, and the only solution I can see is you are going to have to allow games between the two viewpoints, most likely making it unavoidable.

In other words, unless you manage to come up with a solution for 3rd person that was never successfully addressed in all the previous iterations of this franchise, something I think is unlikely, those of us who enjoy 1st person are screwed in the end.

[Koniving]

ecued, on 22 May 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

thats great your not going to force players to use it but those who don't will get powned, thats the way it was in mw4, you cant play 1st person against some one in 3rd person, doesn't work. so to impliment it will force us all to use it, unless match making is given the option

Mentioned in the many, many layers of this thread is that you will have the choice: "First person only" or "Third person only" which is decided before you go to join a match. It's one or the other. You cannot switch mid game, and everyone you face will have the same perspective.

[Jestun]

Koniving, on 22 May 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

Mentioned in the many, many layers of this thread is that you will have the choice: "First person only" or "Third person only" which is decided before you go to join a match. It's one or the other. You cannot switch mid game, and everyone you face will have the same perspective.

Until they confirm exactly how it will work in CW that statement holds as much weight as the one stating that it breaks the design pillars of the game.

I.e. it was their position at the time, before CW had been considered.

Edited by Jestun, 23 May 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[Koniving]

Jackson Jax Teller, on 23 May 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

What do YOU think will happen if there are more 3rd person players than 1st person players? Do you think theyll keep the 1st persaon que going just so they keep their word in this thread or do you think that the "we will never force players to play together" will just become "that was our position at the time"?

Quite frankly if you actually think there will be more third person players... then does that mean there is something wrong with first person? Personally I'm in favor a third person, hip-mounted camera on either the right or left side. Quite literally 'mounted' beneath an arm or lower section of a side torso. None of that 'floating behind you' stuff. One that I could switch to as some sort of module. That or a crotch-cam. I could really use one on my assault mechs.

Edited by Koniving, 23 May 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Jestun]

Koniving, on 23 May 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Quite frankly if you actually think there will be more third person players... then does that mean there is something wrong with first person?

If there are more WoW players than MWO players does that mean reat-time combat is "wrong" and tab-targeting and spamming 1,2,2,2,3,2,2,1 is "right"?

Edited by Jestun, 23 May 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[CyBerkut]

Thontor, on 22 May 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

No i havent forgotten. Just because 1pv and 3pv will both be available in CW doesn't mean you will be forced to play against 3rd person players.

Let's examine that, shall we...

Quote

Ask the Devs #37
Gremlich Johns: When the CW mode is implemented, will it be 1st Person View only?
A: We haven’t decided on the final format. Both 3^rd and 1^st person will be available options, however we have yet to confirm how one or the other will be selected for specific scenarios, like Merc Corp vs Merc Corp.

How do you parse this?:
"however we have yet to confirm how one or the other will be selected for specific scenarios, like Merc Corp vs Merc Corp."

If you have one team that prefers 1PV and the other team that prefers 3PV, contesting for a planet, (or whatever,) in Community Warfare... it appears there are 3 possible ways it could work.

1. Both teams are forced to play 1PV.
2. Both teams are forced to play 3PV.
Or
3. Each team plays the POV that it prefers, and you have 1PV playing against 3PV.

What do you think is going to happen, Thontor?
Do you think it will be acceptable to you?
Do you think it will be acceptable to everyone else?

[CyBerkut]

Thontor, on 22 May 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

I also dont understand why people are so upset... when they won't even be forced to play with people using 3pv.

That is an assumption, not a known fact.

Quote

Ask the Devs #37
Gremlich Johns: When the CW mode is implemented, will it be 1st Person View only?
A: We haven’t decided on the final format. Both 3^rd and 1^st person will be available options, however we have yet to confirm how one or the other will be selected for specific scenarios, like Merc Corp vs Merc Corp.

Based on that... people are either going to be forced to play against other pilots using the other POV.... OR, they are going to be forced to play a POV that they don't want to at times.

Either one is sufficient grounds to be P.O.'d at how PGI appears to be intending to handle this.

Edited by CyBerkut, 23 May 2013 - 06:18 PM.

[DeaconW]

Thontor, on 23 May 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Option 4, each merc corps selects whether they are a 1st or 3rd person merc corps. You can only challenge merc corps who are the same as yours. And of course you have the option of selecting both if you don't mind playing either way.


Not an assumption, it is what we have been told by PGI. Whether it is a fact or not might be an assumption.



Or, like I said, they will not be forced to do anything and will be able to only challenge merc corps who play with the same camera perspective.

Until we know anything is set in stone, there is no reason to be P.O.'d about anything. We simply don't know how its going to be yet.

I will say this for you Thontor...your faith and loyalty to PGI, no matter what, is quite admirable. You should become some politicians political advisor or spokesperson...you would be awesome at it. In fact, if I was ever involved in a public scandal...I would be trying to hire you as my spokesman!

[Ursus_Spiritus]

No... simply just NO,

Stop conceding constantly. Set a bar and let those that really want, to do so. Keep catering to the masses and you dilute the ideal into nothingness.

If they want 3rd person, they can go back to playing MW4 or another game.
Instead of giving 3rd person, providing "required" training for basic mech driving. That was part of at least two Mechwarrior games...

Why not this one?

Mechwarrior is about being in the COCKPIT, not behind, above, aside the mech. YOU are the mechwarrior, not a passenger.

[Dantiger]

Thontor, on 23 May 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Option 4, each merc corps selects whether they are a 1st or 3rd person merc corps. You can only challenge merc corps who are the same as yours. And of course you have the option of selecting both if you don't mind playing either way.

so... lets say that you have a planet, and your corp play only on 1st prs. and suddenly a corp that plays only 3rd prs want your planet... what will happen ? they will be unable to challenge for the planet ? or they will automatically conquer the planet because your corp can't defend ?

[Dantiger]

Thontor, on 24 May 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Would only have the option of challenging for planets held by merc corps with the same setting. I'm sure there are plenty of other planets to challenge for, that have the same setting.

I sincerely thinks that its better to divide 1st and 3rd on two different servers than that s**t system you are sugesting

[Hoaggie]

Thontor, on 24 May 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Would only have the option of challenging for planets held by merc corps with the same setting. I'm sure there are plenty of other planets to challenge for, that have the same setting.

Doing it like that would essentially make two separate games, every time PGI did an update they would have to do two separate update, and balance/destroy each system separately.

If there is a 3rd person, it needs to by a physical thing that can be shot and destroyed. If it cant be destroyed then it is not something that should be in the game.

[Seymour13]

This will never work because to have 3rd person perspective you, by definition, need to be able to look past or over your mech which will lead to an unavoidable camera angle advantage (they're trying to think of a way to NOT make 3rd person OP, well let me tell you that's impossible to accomplish) over 1st person players.
This means 1st and 3rd person will be completely seperated, dividing the community in 8 segments since we'll also be splitting up in NA and EU servers.
Two servers (2), two perspectives (4) and two game modes (8), #players:8.
3rd person will be an utter disaster for this game, it could even kill the game or flood it with the WRONG kind of gamer, and you can take that to the bank.
There's no way in which this could possibly work out in the game's advantage, it can only hurt the game in several ways depending on how things go.

[CyBerkut]

Thontor, on 23 May 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Option 4, each merc corps selects whether they are a 1st or 3rd person merc corps. You can only challenge merc corps who are the same as yours. And of course you have the option of selecting both if you don't mind playing either way.

Which would essentially put some planets / territories out of reach form some teams. Hmmm... I wonder if anybody would try to take advantage of that? We know SuperMercCorp only plays 1PV, so we'll put NotAsSuperMercCorp on planets that we don't want to defend from SuperMercCorp attacks. Great.

So Thontor... that still leaves the questions unanswered...

Quote

CyBerkut, on 23 May 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

What do you think is going to happen, Thontor?
Do you think it will be acceptable to you?
Do you think it will be acceptable to everyone else?

Quote

Not an assumption, it is what we have been told by PGI. Whether it is a fact or not might be an assumption.

You didn't put it in quotes with an attribution to the source. You wrote it as a statement, (which is representing that it was going to be that way.). As you now acknowledge, we do not yet know it will go that way (which is why I challenged the validity of the statement.).

Quote

Or, like I said, they will not be forced to do anything and will be able to only challenge merc corps who play with the same camera perspective.

Until we know anything is set in stone, there is no reason to be P.O.'d about anything. We simply don't know how its going to be yet.

Sure there is. The implications of their most recent statement (gotta go with that, since the story has changed...) is that 1PV and 3PV are going to be in the same CW servers/universe. All of the possible scenarios for that have drawbacks that are significant enough to be P.O.'d about. You can do your best Jay Carney imitation all you like... the proposition stinks. The only deodorant that is going to potentially clear the stench is:

1. Keep 3PV out of Community Warfare.

Or

2. Give 3PV players their own Community Warfare universe.

Edited by CyBerkut, 25 May 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[Dantiger]

or limit 3pv to training grounds and private matches only... simple like that

[Jestun]

Seymour13, on 25 May 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

This means 1st and 3rd person will be completely seperated, dividing the community in 8 segments since we'll also be splitting up in NA and EU servers.
Two servers (2), two perspectives (4) and two game modes (8), #players:8.

Don't forget pug / pre-made and CW / non-CW.

Edited by Jestun, 26 May 2013 - 11:33 AM.

[Frisk]

If in order to have melee we need 3rd person... I say bring it on.

[GuardDogg]

I understand other camera views in spectator mode or recording your plays for cam view to make videos. But 3rd person do battles? No..

[HarmAssassin]

I'm squarely in the camp of "no 3rd person".

But to those who say there's nothing wrong with having 3rd person view limited to only training grounds... let's not forget that the easiest way to make a hack for a game, is to simply take a game feature that's normally turned on and turn it off (or a feature that's normally off and turn it on).

Just having the code in the game, will mean someone will figure out how to turn it on when they're not supposed to.