211 replies to this topic

[F lan Ker]

S!

Well, blame the F2P trend going on. Just throw out a title that can be made cheaper than a boxed game with DLC added later. Sure developing a standalone game is expensive, but again it can be made a lot better than a F2P. Look at Falcon 4.0 for example. It was more or less buggy when released but look at it now, the definitive F16 simulator there is to this day, no competition even close. Was it a F2P = dead years ago. Quality is expensive, but pays off in longer run. PGI does not need to listen to Stalin's phrase: Quantity in itself is quality.

[Thorn Hallis]

Jade Kitsune, on 21 March 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Your fundimental flaw in this is that you should be targeting gamers aged 20-45+.

What if....your proposed target demographic just isn't enough to make MWO survive?

XIRUSPHERE, on 22 March 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Because when founders happened i'm sure they were shocked at the turn out. Now instead of saying hey lets make the game these guys always wanted and were willing to throw so much money behind they made the decision to extract as much return as possible out of the product.

Or maybe they were shocked because they expected more and just realized that the "core" fanbase wouldn't be enough to keep the game running?

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 25 March 2013 - 01:57 AM.

[Billygoat]

Thorn Hallis, on 25 March 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

What if....your proposed target demographic just isn't enough to make MWO survive?

Then they need to rethink their business model, because the "male action gamer" that PGI has decided they're interested is not a market that is really available to them as a small time developer. Those guys aren't looking for a new game. They certainly aren't looking for a new game based on a property that - where it is recognised at all (and it largely isn't) - is known as being complicated, nerdy and "outdated".

PGI (and the Hawken devs, for that matter) are making the same error that many MMO developers make. They are mistaking the demographic that plays are narrow handful of popular games (or, in the case of the "MMO market", WoW) for a wider "gamer" demographic that is actually out there looking for something new. They make this initial error and then base all their plans on huge, unrealistic figures that they will never achieve or maintain and then either collapse or have to aggressively restructure when the other shoe finally drops.

If PGI/IGP are really coming into this with the expectation that they are going to achieve Battlefield, LoL or even World of Tanks numbers with a Mechwarrior game (be it third person, first person, be it filled with microtransactions, be it fast or slow paced,) from a largely unproven developer, then they should cut their losses and give up now because they have made a colossal error in judgement.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

And you know, I stayed away for this point, but i think it's about time to bring it up.

The target demographic is the "MALE" ACTION GAMERS"

now to most, in general, this wouldn't be an issue.. but fun fact pgi... you have female players.

So you're already gaining people outside of your "target demographic."

I found the remark to be rather insulting really, especially in this day and age, where modern society is constantly knocking down gender discriminatory things such as this. But being a part of the LGBT community, and the like, has shown that representatives of company's often don't even realize what they're saying. So for the most part I ignored that part. But the more and more people repeat it... the more it grates on me, so time to bring it out.

PGI your market should be "Western Mecha Action Fans"

But you know, really, the sexist remarks, the lies, the hiding of the truth... hell frankly i'm shocked this thread hasn't been closed, locked, and thrown out yet.

PGI you keep screwing up, and this time you've gone into political correctness terrority. where will you end up next? You've lied to your userbase. [And the "That was your stance at the time" argument holds no water] you've used sexist marketing, and you've ignored your core userbase and it's suggestions.

So tell me, what's the next step? what's the next screw up? You're soo afraid of failing that you're causing a self-fulfilling prophecy on yourselves. At this rate, MWO will fail, your company will fail, and MWO will be seen as that "mechwarrior project that was too ambitious."

Let's not forget the black marks your company is leaving on this IP... by the time you're done... there may never be another Mechwarrior title.

[Mercules]

Taemien, on 23 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Most kids under 18 are still playing Pokemon (or whatever took its place) and other Wii or 3DS games. They don't typically get into the CoD games or PC games period until their able to buy it themselves. And the ones that are lucky enough to have a PC or usually a MACbook from school are usually playing Minecraft or other cheap, non-resource heavy, java game.

Ehem... My future brother-in-law plays CoD with his kids hosted locally. Yeah, 7-year-old and early teens for the other. My daughter is more interested in Fruit Ninja, but my son plays the game this is based off of, Battletech with his Step-Dad and has moved on to Warhammer and warhammer 40k. He is 11. He was playing MMOs with me when he was 8.

I know a ton of teens who are friend's kids who play CoD or similar shooters on X-box. Yes, the CoD demographic includes a set of players that are not interested in MWO such as my brother-in-law and his kids who would look at having to build a mech as an annoyance.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 24 March 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

I still think its funny they specifically said "male" gamers.

Ironic considering how the Battletech universe was full of female mechwarriors and held no gender roles. Natasha Kerensky is one of the most well know characters in the Battletech universe.... a woman.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mercules, on 25 March 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Ehem... My future brother-in-law plays CoD with his kids hosted locally. Yeah, 7-year-old and early teens for the other. My daughter is more interested in Fruit Ninja, but my son plays the game this is based off of, Battletech with his Step-Dad and has moved on to Warhammer and warhammer 40k. He is 11. He was playing MMOs with me when he was 8.

I know a ton of teens who are friend's kids who play CoD or similar shooters on X-box. Yes, the CoD demographic includes a set of players that are not interested in MWO such as my brother-in-law and his kids who would look at having to build a mech as an annoyance.



Ironic considering how the Battletech universe was full of female mechwarriors and held no gender roles. Natasha Kerensky is one of the most well know characters in the Battletech universe.... a woman.

If she was Ugly would she be so popular?

[Mercules]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 March 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

If she was Ugly would she be so popular?

http://t0.gstatic.co...LuSlhjFm57f7hMQ
https://encrypted-tb...asTMI1PYSLgl434
https://encrypted-tb...6USU037D8oOUE2Z
https://encrypted-tb...XJN4grI8LiivltP
Is she pretty? I hadn't noticed.

Edited by Mercules, 25 March 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

bad artists.

Natasha Kerensky presenting Phalen Kell to Khan Kerensky




Personal favorite

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 March 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Mercules]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 March 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

bad artists.

Natasha Kerensky presenting Phalen Kell to Khan Kerensky

Yes, but that one is not a "canon" picture of her. The ones I posted are all from canon material.

[Spurowny]

zverofaust, on 21 March 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Thank you for completely dodging the question with an ad hominem.

dammit zvero now i have to look up what ad hominem means....



edit: looked it up, good to know.

Edited by Spurowny, 25 March 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mercules, on 25 March 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Yes, but that one is not a "canon" picture of her. The ones I posted are all from canon material.

Two of mine are also

The first is from a Clan wolf source book.
Second one is from The Card game.
Third one is a gamer's wife!


Also we had really bad artists in the 80s and early 90s!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 March 2013 - 06:29 AM.

[Mercules]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 March 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Two of mine are also

The first is from a Clan wolf source book.
Second one is from The Card game.
Third one is a gamer's wife!

Technically she is supposed to be "striking" and not necessarily "beautiful" or "pretty". The second picture you posted captures that a bit more. Even so it shows a deeper flaw in the feminism of gaming community that powerful women also need to be attractive. I always pictured her with features that were not what I would call pretty and the source material I put up is what I mean by that. Aside from her there are numerous females in the Battletech universe that fought side by side with the males or were better pilots/techs/leaders than the males.

[Joseph Mallan]

Taemien, on 23 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Being as most of the people I know (personally, as in in person, not through a chat room, aka Real Life) that play CoD are 27-42, I think that throws out the OP's argument.

Most kids under 18 are still playing Pokemon (or whatever took its place) and other Wii or 3DS games. They don't typically get into the CoD games or PC games period until their able to buy it themselves. And the ones that are lucky enough to have a PC or usually a MACbook from school are usually playing Minecraft or other cheap, non-resource heavy, java game.

I'm 47 and I already reserved my Next Pokemon games. Your point is invalid

Mercules, on 25 March 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Technically she is supposed to be "striking" and not necessarily "beautiful" or "pretty". The second picture you posted captures that a bit more. Even so it shows a deeper flaw in the feminism of gaming community that powerful women also need to be attractive. I always pictured her with features that were not what I would call pretty and the source material I put up is what I mean by that. Aside from her there are numerous females in the Battletech universe that fought side by side with the males or were better pilots/techs/leaders than the males.

That is without dispute! And a credit to the universe.

[Yokaiko]

Dustein, on 25 March 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

TL;DR:
I feel as a founder I was lied to, That the BT/MW Demographic kick-started a MA/CoD Demographic game under false pretences.

The game they are giving us isn't the game that we are getting. I quit for that reason.

[Sayyid]

And people asked me why I didnt go Founders all those months ago.

Because I seen this was going to happen unfortunately. I was afraid they were going to just concentrate on making a game that is basically nothing more than a big robot FPS. Instead of making a decent Mechwarrior/Battletech game.

Joseph Mallan, on 25 March 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

bad artists.

Natasha Kerensky presenting Phalen Kell to Khan Kerensky




Personal favorite

She is all wrong for Natasha, the Black Widow was a red head.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Please, if you're going to post in this thread, keep it on topic.

[Dakkath]

Jade Kitsune, on 25 March 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Please, if you're going to post in this thread, keep it on topic.

I would like to reiterate this sentiment exactly. Please stay on topic.

Thank you all
-Dak

[malibu43]

Jade Kitsune, on 25 March 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

And you know, I stayed away for this point, but i think it's about time to bring it up. The target demographic is the "MALE" ACTION GAMERS" now to most, in general, this wouldn't be an issue.. but fun fact pgi... you have female players. So you're already gaining people outside of your "target demographic." I found the remark to be rather insulting really, especially in this day and age, where modern society is constantly knocking down gender discriminatory things such as this. But being a part of the LGBT community, and the like, has shown that representatives of company's often don't even realize what they're saying. So for the most part I ignored that part. But the more and more people repeat it... the more it grates on me, so time to bring it out. PGI your market should be "Western Mecha Action Fans" But you know, really, the sexist remarks, the lies, the hiding of the truth... hell frankly i'm shocked this thread hasn't been closed, locked, and thrown out yet. PGI you keep screwing up, and this time you've gone into political correctness terrority. where will you end up next? You've lied to your userbase. [And the "That was your stance at the time" argument holds no water] you've used sexist marketing, and you've ignored your core userbase and it's suggestions. So tell me, what's the next step? what's the next screw up? You're soo afraid of failing that you're causing a self-fulfilling prophecy on yourselves. At this rate, MWO will fail, your company will fail, and MWO will be seen as that "mechwarrior project that was too ambitious." Let's not forget the black marks your company is leaving on this IP... by the time you're done... there may never be another Mechwarrior title.

PGI stating that their target market is males is not sexist. That is just ridiculous.

Matel's target market for Barbie dolls is probably females. Is that sexist? Should they start marketing to boys as well, even though a it will be a complete waste of money?

Your post is a great example of political correctness gone wrong.

Edited by malibu43, 25 March 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[Darius Deadeye]

I am 28 years old, have spent plenty of money (80$ +) and would willingly spend a hell of a lot more.

The only reason I haven't spent any money for some time (though there are things I'd like!), is exactly as the op points out, a lack of "noteworthy" content, rumours of 3rd person and their interest in catering a "fictive" target group as opposed to the core players being fans of the franchise.

I'll still play, just not pay, untill I feel secure that my INVESTMENT will pay off.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sayyid, on 25 March 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

She is all wrong for Natasha, the Black Widow was a red head.

What, women never dye their hair?