102 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

zverofaust, on 21 March 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

It just dawned on me as I explored through the launcher that there's a "Pilot Tree" section.

Inside this section, players can unlock skills for their pilot that give them access to a number of different modules -- for GXP.

The primary method of obtaining GXP is by converting Mech XP to GXP using MC. For example, I currently have >65,000 Mech XP on my favorite variant, but only 2,000 GXP.

This means that things like Advanced Zoom, Target Decay, 360 Targeting, Capture Acceleration, Sensor Range, Target Info boost and Coolant Flush boosts are all unavailable to me unless I pay real money for them (or spend the next 3 years playing the game every day until I can afford one or two).

So... how exactly is this not P2W?

it took me less than 2 weeks to earn 5000 gxp, so ill have all my pilot modules in about 6 months or so.

the modules are the "level 60" of mechwarrior online, they arent supposd to be earned fast.

[MagicHamsta]

GXP rates are fine.
It be quick enough that me bought all the modules (including that pixilated advanced zoom) as a non MC player.

Me can see that your grasp of "pay to win" be a bit shaky.
Pay to win is when a paying player has an advantage free players cannot achieve.
Whether it be physically impossible to acquire the advantage by any means.
I.E Separate Cash Only currency can only be used to buy advantage with In game currency not accepted for said advantage.
Hero mech be an example Such as the Illya which be the superior UAC boat. (higher tonnage available than Jaeger, and good hardpoint placement.)
The modules before they were scrapped as well: Any competitive player would have had to buy the MCs to compete on an even ground.
Or advantages which can be technically gained in game but realistically be impossible.
(I.E: PWI where you need to get an army of players to farm for months to outfit one player to match a paying player.)


Since the amount of GXP one needs to get in order to compete is easy to acquire, tis not Pay2Win.
Just like how attempting to PvP a level 60 as a level 30 in a generic mmorpg can't be considered pay2win since the level 60 player just put moar time into the game.

Edited by MagicHamsta, 22 March 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

the Zverofaust Motto:

"Why Grind for something I might be able to obtain through whining, instead?"

Seriously, for someone who has taken offense and pretty much literally complained about EVERY decision made by the DEVs, yet here he still is.......

[Galathon Redd]

Fail thread is fail.

OP, do you even know what P2W means? you are aware that you gain GXP after every match, right? You never have to pay to convert Mech XP if you don't want to. I never have, and have unlocked 2 of these modules.

You make no sense. Please, PLEASE tell me you're trolling, man. Tell me you aren't really that stupid.

[zverofaust]

Ph30nix, on 22 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

it took me less than 2 weeks to earn 5000 gxp, so ill have all my pilot modules in about 6 months or so.

the modules are the "level 60" of mechwarrior online, they arent supposd to be earned fast.

Not all of us are unemployed or retired. Since the last stat wipe I've only logged just over 10 hours of gametime, and that's playing several matches a week.

In that time I've accumulated less than 5k GXP, most of which I used to help me unlock Mech Trees because again, I don't have the time or energy to play this game for 16 hours a day.

[Roughneck45]

zverofaust, on 22 March 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Not all of us are unemployed or retired. Since the last stat wipe I've only logged just over 10 hours of gametime, and that's playing several matches a week.

In that time I've accumulated less than 5k GXP, most of which I used to help me unlock Mech Trees because again, I don't have the time or energy to play this game for 16 hours a day.

So the problem here is your playtime and perception of what you should recieve in that limited time, not the system.

You either grind it out and earn it, or pay money to cut the grind.

This is nothing new.

And you used the GXP on mech trees? Are you insane? Wait... I think I know that answer...

To be fair, apparently you didn't know about the pilot tab.

ForumWarriorOnline?

Edited by Roughneck45, 22 March 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Buso Senshi Zelazny]

he's a troll, ignore him

[Mercules]

zverofaust, on 22 March 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Not all of us are unemployed or retired. Since the last stat wipe I've only logged just over 10 hours of gametime, and that's playing several matches a week.

In that time I've accumulated less than 5k GXP, most of which I used to help me unlock Mech Trees because again, I don't have the time or energy to play this game for 16 hours a day.

Which makes you a perfect candidate to shorten your grind. If you happened to have a few bucks you could buy some MC and shorten the grind by a good deal of time. This would let you keep up with those who are... "Unemployed or Retired" and likely on a fixed income.

[Roadbeer]

zverofaust, on 22 March 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Not all of us are unemployed or retired. Since the last stat wipe I've only logged just over 10 hours of gametime, and that's playing several matches a week.

But he has 100s of hours of forum time.

Those who can... play
Those who can't... post.

Got it

[Jonathan Paine]

How about OP play more and offer less opinions until he knows the game better. I have never converted XP and have more than 40k gxp after unlocking all modules. Thus, no pay to win.

[Mercules]

Roadbeer, on 22 March 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

But he has 100s of hours of forum time.

Those who can... play
Those who can't... post.

Got it

Chill out. Some of us... like myself... have jobs that would frown on playing a video game, but not on reading and posting on forums as long as our other work gets done. There are days I don't reply on the forums because I am busy, but there are just as many I can spend all day on the forums while still doing my work. Just because someone posts doesn't mean they could be playing instead.

[Taurick]

2000 posts and 2000 GXP?

Maybe you should spend more time playing and less time ******** up the forums

I have all modules and 15k GXP banked and I've only been playing since december

[NinetyProof]

Eldragon, on 21 March 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Pay 2 Win is when a player MUST pay in order to use top tier equipment, that is unavailable to the free players.

This is Pay 2 Shortcut. Even then, those pilot modules are good, but not so good that they are even remotely required to do well in this game.

No ... it's called: Pay-For-Power.

And yes, this game, right now, for all intent and purpose, is pay-for-power.

example: Player A vs Player B, both have been playing for a couple of months ... both have never purchased a Heavy Mech ... both decide they want to try heavies. Both have *just* enough CBills to buy their first heavy.

Player A, P-F-P player, plunks down some cash, and buys all the necessary upgrades to make the heavy viable (DHS, Endo, Better Engine, etc). Then he plunks down more cash, and buys the other two variants ... then plunks down more cash and unlocks the skills to master ... then plunks down more cash to get the modules.

Player B, a non-cash player, doesn't have money, doesn't get the upgrades, doesn't get the skill unlocks, doesn't get the modules, doesn't get Coolent Flush, doesn't get artillery, etc, etc.

Player A and Player B meet up in a match ... Player A's mech goes faster, MUCH FASTER, stops faster, twists faster, heat is better, lock is faster, etc, etc, etc. Player A decimates Player B not because Player A has mad skillz, but because player A "Paid-For-Power".

Of course Player B will eventually catch up to Player A in the power curve ... eventually ... like in several weeks/months depending upon different factors. This is what the "Pay-For-Power-Deniers" hang their hat on. The fact non-PFP player could eventually catch up to them.

And that *is* the point of Pay-For-Power. Player A drops cash and beats Player B for no other reason then they opened up their wallet. Whether you consider that Good or Bad is another topic ... but, for the love of pete ... stop lying and not calling this game a Pay-For-Power game.

And, by extension, Pay-For-Power is a defacto Pay-To-Win system .. it's just not blatant about it ... and it can be overcome ... for now. And even that might change in the future.

Edited by NinetyProof, 22 March 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[Roughneck45]

NinetyProof, on 22 March 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

And, by extension, Pay-For-Power is a defacto Pay-To-Win system .. it's just not blatant about it ... and it can be overcome ... for now. And even that might change in the future.

You misinterpret Pay-to-win.

Pay to win is strictly when something is only available through cash, and is flat out better than it's in-game counterpart, if there happens to be one.

Your pay-for-power argument makes sense, but then you could say anything in the game is pay-for-power.

"This -insert item here- is pay for power because it costs 10 matches worth of earnings, and I can only play 2 matches a day. PGI's system is clearly flawed and mistreats players that only have 10 minutes of game time per day."

Edited by Roughneck45, 22 March 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The primary method to get GXP is to play the game. GXP = time. XP conversion = convenience. Therefore, GXP is a great free to play implementation.

I had some 60k GXP saved up before I bought my first module, and have only converted more during sale weekends and only so I could be prepared as they released more modules that I found useful.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

NinetyProof, on 22 March 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

No ... it's called: Pay-For-Power.

And yes, this game, right now, for all intent and purpose, is pay-for-power.

Player A, P-F-P player, plunks down some cash, and buys all the necessary upgrades to make the heavy viable (DHS, Endo, Better Engine, etc). Then he plunks down more cash, and buys the other two variants ... then plunks down more cash and unlocks the skills to master ... then plunks down more cash to get the modules.

...

And, by extension, Pay-For-Power is a defacto Pay-To-Win system .. it's just not blatant about it ... and it can be overcome ... for now. And even that might change in the future.

Congratulations, you just described Pay 2 Shortcut.

Of course the player who plunks down cash to skip the C-bill grind is going to have a better mech at first. Nothing prevents a F2P player from saving his cbill, and he will get there eventually.

By your incredibly loose definition, anything you spend MC on is Pay-For-Power. No one cares if the paying player gets to the better equipment faster....Well, except you, apparently.

MWO gives new accounts millions in bonus Cbills for the first 20 matches. That allows any player to have a top-tier mech within a couple hours of play.

If you seriously cannot handle the idea of some players having more c-bills than others, you're probably equally upset that some players have more free time to grind C-bills and XP than other players.

Edited by Eldragon, 22 March 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Funny, I got all mine maxed out and didn't spend a cent. Then again, I typically only play my two Atlai.

[Scratx]

zverofaust, on 21 March 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

Yep. I only just got to Elite levels on my favorite Mech yesterday. Though to be fair, I knew about Pilot Skills already, but it never dawned on me that they can only feasibly be purcashed with real money until I actually decided I might like to try one.

I call Bovine Feces on that.

I didn't use MC and I have quite a few of those pilot skill modules unlocked. But other than my founder's Catapult I don't even recall which other mechs have any module whatsoever.

I don't miss them, either.

None of them have enough of an impact to be in any way decisive. Sensor Ranges is the only one that, IMO, actually has a good use but it's still marginal. (it lets you get targets on ECM-covered mechs further away, but you're still too close for comfort, and the locking time is still bad enough you likely won't get a shot in anyway)

If you want to complain about P2W modules, go bug PGI about consumables. Griping about those is more legitimate.

[winterborn107]

i never once use mc to convert xp. i dont see this as pay to win at all. and i have 10+ mechs the modules realy dont give a skill boost. if u where not doing well before u got them, u wont do any better after. i see them more as a reward for playing alot.

[BlightFang]

Roughneck45, on 22 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Pay to win is strictly when something is only available through cash, and is flat out better than it's in-game counterpart, if there happens to be one.

This is a terrible definition. By this definition, if they had a "iwinbutton" that you could only buy through MC or grinding for 10 years of heavily active play, it would not be pay2win. Everybody on this forum is trolling or something to protect their investments.