1107 replies to this topic

[Shumabot]

Kdogg788, on 27 March 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Finally we're at the heart of the matter. If that's the main thing disappointing you, the amount of time needed to afford things, then why not make a new thread stating that rewards are out of whack and that Cbill payouts should be higher. It seems like your main bone of contention is the fact that it costs 1.5 millions for DHS, and I FULLY agree with you on this. Upgrading to DHS for 1.5 million is ******** and should be like a quarter of that so that it is freer choice. And once gained, they shouldn't charge you full price to swap back.

Edit: A word that starts with R and ends with arded is censored. Really now...

-k

No, you really, truly, fundamentally, can't comprehend the people you're talking to. Any of them. I figured this out already, why I tried to talk to you again I don't know. I'm not even going to explain it. I explained it in the post you just quoted and you still couldn't understand. I've explained it to you like five seperate times, but it's always "im lazy, I just want SHS gone, I just want to get free stuff, etc".

I hate DHS because it's a bad system. It's a straight upgrade in a competitive multiplayer game that doesn't base matchmaking off of the quality of mechs. No upgrade is good in this game. They are all bad for the games health. 100% of them. DHS is by far the worst offender, but the problem is that this isn't mechwarrior 5, this is mechwarrior online. Mech quality progression when you don't matchmake based on mech quality breeds and encourages imbalance and brutally punishes new players and people who don't understand the mechlabs systems but would otherwise be skilled.

It's a terrible system, I couldn't care less about the final cost in time or money except insofar as they're what reinforces it as a bad system. If you don't understand what I am saying here, after the sixth time I've now explained it to you, I'm going to believe that you have brain damage (like a certain other party).

Edited by Shumabot, 27 March 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[Kdogg788]

Shumabot, on 27 March 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

No, you really, truly, fundamentally, can't comprehend the people you're talking to. Any of them. I figured this out already, why I tried to talk to you again I don't know. I'm not even going to explain it. I explained it in the post you just quoted and you still couldn't understand. I've explained it to you like five seperate times, but it's always "im lazy, I just want SHS gone, I just want to get free stuff, etc".

I hate DHS because it's a bad system. It's a straight upgrade in a competitive multiplayer game that doesn't base matchmaking off of the quality of mechs. No upgrade is good in this game. They are all bad for the games health. 100% of them. DHS is by far the worst offender, but the problem is that this isn't mechwarrior 5, this is mechwarrior online. Mech quality progression when you don't matchmake based on mech quality breeds and encourages imbalance and brutally punishes new players and people who don't understand the mechlabs systems but would otherwise be skilled.

It's a terrible system, I couldn't care less about the final cost in time or money except insofar as they're what reinforces it as a bad system.

Ok, so you want prices dropped way down because it's a system of haves vs. have nots or so you say. You would like all mechs to be stock loadouts because "No upgrade is good in this game. They are all bad for the games health. 100% of them." So therefore you want the matchmaker overhauled as well.

So unroll for us your plan to re-balance the game including detailed statistical analysis for how single and double heat sinks or one of the two will theoretically function in such a system. All I've see so far are cries of "Take out SHS because DHS will always be a direct upgrade" and dismissive threats aimed at anyone who disagrees with you. Let's have some of your detailed analysis.

-k

[Sifright]

Shumabot, on 27 March 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

No, you really, truly, fundamentally, can't comprehend the people you're talking to. Any of them. I figured this out already, why I tried to talk to you again I don't know. I'm not even going to explain it. I explained it in the post you just quoted and you still couldn't understand. I've explained it to you like five seperate times, but it's always "im lazy, I just want SHS gone, I just want to get free stuff, etc".

I hate DHS because it's a bad system. It's a straight upgrade in a competitive multiplayer game that doesn't base matchmaking off of the quality of mechs. No upgrade is good in this game. They are all bad for the games health. 100% of them. DHS is by far the worst offender, but the problem is that this isn't mechwarrior 5, this is mechwarrior online. Mech quality progression when you don't matchmake based on mech quality breeds and encourages imbalance and brutally punishes new players and people who don't understand the mechlabs systems but would otherwise be skilled.

It's a terrible system, I couldn't care less about the final cost in time or money except insofar as they're what reinforces it as a bad system. If you don't understand what I am saying here, after the sixth time I've now explained it to you, I'm going to believe that you have brain damage (like a certain other party).

to be honest, i've always liked the idea of having power as part of progression but what you say is very plainly true in that in a multiplayer game that is basically counter-strike but with mechs allowing people to drop in vastly imbalanced load outs is kind of nuts.


This game doesn't have nearly enough ancillary components to it outside of it's red vs blue battle arena to make the upgrade/progression divide non-harmful to the game as whole.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hey Joe, KDogg,

Was thinking about starting a new poll in GenDis:

"REMOVE PLAYERS WHO CAN'T MANAGE THEIR HEAT WITH SINGLE HEATSINKS FROM THE GAME"
--- I'm tired of being forced to drop with sub optimal, "leet" forum warriors who are big men with smurfy, but can't handle heat management, in the game. Their need for ezmode DHS nannying is detracting from my games, as they tend to "accidentally" disco when they get sub optimal maps for their smurfy dreambuilds. And they set a bad precedent for new players, who instead of learning to manage heat, will instead expect the mechlab to do it for them, and actually believe alpha builds are great, thus affecting the OTHER 15 guys in the pug drop with their lacking actual pilot skills.

Since, obviously, it's "hyperbole" , no one should get their panties in a bunch over it, right?

I mean, it's essentially just following the format of the OP, so shouldn't be remotely considered inflammatory or objectionable.

[Magicbullet141]

at this point, 3050, according to the lore, double heak sinks are almost unheard of.

[Shumabot]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 March 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Hey Joe, KDogg,

Was thinking about starting a new poll in GenDis:

"REMOVE PLAYERS WHO CAN'T MANAGE THEIR HEAT WITH SINGLE HEATSINKS FROM THE GAME"
--- I'm tired of being forced to drop with sub optimal, "leet" forum warriors who are big men with smurfy, but can't handle heat management, in the game. Their need for ezmode DHS nannying is detracting from my games, as they tend to "accidentally" disco when they get sub optimal maps for their smurfy dreambuilds. And they set a bad precedent for new players, who instead of learning to manage heat, will instead expect the mechlab to do it for them, and actually believe alpha builds are great, thus affecting the OTHER 15 guys in the pug drop with their lacking actual pilot skills.

Since, obviously, it's "hyperbole" , no one should get their panties in a bunch over it, right?

I mean, it's essentially just following the format of the OP, so shouldn't be remotely considered inflammatory or objectionable.

You two deserve eachother.

Kdogg788, on 27 March 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Ok, so you want prices dropped way down because it's a system of haves vs. have nots or so you say. You would like all mechs to be stock loadouts because "No upgrade is good in this game. They are all bad for the games health. 100% of them." So therefore you want the matchmaker overhauled as well.

Swing and a miss. Strike out. Get off the field, you're thrown out of baseball. That's not what I said and you fundamentally have shown at a basic level that you're not interested in conversation or coming to consensus. No more talky.

Quote

So unroll for us your plan to re-balance the game including detailed statistical analysis for how single and double heat sinks or one of the two will theoretically function in such a system. All I've see so far are cries of "Take out SHS because DHS will always be a direct upgrade" and dismissive threats aimed at anyone who disagrees with you. Let's have some of your detailed analysis.

-k

I would but you burned that bridge and the dozens of suggestions I've made in this thread so far, many of which you responded to, have drained out the side of your head like the rest of your brain. It's too late now, we're finished.

[Sifright]

Shumabot, on 27 March 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

You two deserve eachother.

Well in fairness to Joe, he is usually a little less divorced from reality than Bishop Steiner who much like his religious name sake has a tenuous grip on reality at the best of times.

because this clearly isn't one of those times.

[Hedonism Robot]

I would fix the problem by buffing single heatsinks in the engine to be 1.8x value. This would eliminate a lot of the stock heat problems and make it an actual decision which heatsink to use in your mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

@Sifright

Its true this game is lacking in ancillary content. NOW. CW is set to roll out phase 1 in May (yes, that is probably optimistic), so that is where I find a disconnect.

While SHS or other upgrades don't work for the Multiplayer TDM type environment, nerfing and removing things because the game hasn't added all the pieces yet, seems very much the wrong idea. Since we are largely still bug hunting, and testing mechanics and balance, the tdm stuff works well though. I'd almost just say suspend the economy period, let us focus on the in game stuff, except we are also testing econmynmodels and other stuff. The endgame doesn't even promise us a multiplayer TDM, though logic dictates we should get one.

But the core game design is built around these elements, even if we are jot using them yet, so removing things like SHS simply because they don't fit a small portion of the players base unsupported belief in what MWO is supposed to be is nuts. Especially when most things like it would just have to be readded.

and when the only justification is a players opinion on how all mechs should be built, it is kinda hard to support.

[Kdogg788]

Shumabot, on 27 March 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

You two deserve eachother.



Swing and a miss. Strike out. Get off the field, you're thrown out of baseball. That's not what I said and you fundamentally have shown at a basic level that you're not interested in conversation or coming to consensus. No more talky.

I would but you burned that bridge and the dozens of suggestions I've made in this thread so far, many of which you responded to, have drained out the side of your head like the rest of your brain. It's too late now, we're finished.

Well, I'm done for now, not because I don't want to find out what your grand plan entails, but I have to leave one job to go to another. I can't take anything seriously until you can give us your cohesive plan for how you intend to fix the heat system, matchmaking, and customization. Something tells me there is none.

-k

[Thirdstar]

Can't we just discuss perhaps Mustrum's ideas about the heat scale and SHS/DHS instead? This mudslinging is getting tiring.

Edited by Thirdstar, 27 March 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Sifright]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 March 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

@Sifright

Its true this game is lacking in ancillary content. NOW. CW is set to roll out phase 1 in May (yes, that is probably optimistic), so that is where I find a disconnect.

While SHS or other upgrades don't work for the Multiplayer TDM type environment, nerfing and removing things because the game hasn't added all the pieces yet, seems very much the wrong idea. Since we are largely still bug hunting, and testing mechanics and balance, the tdm stuff works well though. I'd almost just say suspend the economy period, let us focus on the in game stuff, except we are also testing econmynmodels and other stuff. The endgame doesn't even promise us a multiplayer TDM, though logic dictates we should get one.

But the core game design is built around these elements, even if we are jot using them yet, so removing things like SHS simply because they don't fit a small portion of the players base unsupported belief in what MWO is supposed to be is nuts. Especially when most things like it would just have to be readded.

and when the only justification is a players opinion on how all mechs should be built, it is kinda hard to support.

The problem is, CW is vapourware at this point.

I don't have high confidence it's coming any time soon. PGi stated it would be 90 days after open beta started..

well we are more than double that length of time now and we still don't have any actual details about what CW is going to entail beyond vagueries, given the absolute lack of detail about cw or to be honest the clans as well how any one can have such faith that it's all coming soon I don't know.

I can tell you this though, every tech company i've ever worked at if we had a product/feature road map and had even slightly solid details on what is coming we discussed it with our customers to get preemptive feedback.

Where is the information on what CW is actually going to be.

[Mercules]

Shumabot, on 27 March 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

I propose that anyone who doesn't complain have their account transferred to mechwarrior tactics because that's what they actually want to play.

No, I want to play a FPS sim in the Battletech universe. Mechwarrior tactics is vastly inferior to an existing way to play Battletech over the internet.

Shumabot, on 27 March 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

You wouldn't have 9000 posts of troll if you didn't enjoy it. I can't destroy you in game because elo and I can't make you unhappy because you love being ignorant. I'm aware that I can't make you unhappy directly. Hopefully, in the end, the devs can see that you're probably the worst kind fo customer they can have (the kind that wants the game to fail through ignorance) and makes you unhappy by making this game better.

If the game dies? I don't have to talk to you (yay!)
If they make the game better? You quit and I don't have to talk to you (yay!)

I think I just want to get out of stagnancy.

Your opinion may or may not make the game better. Some of us don't think your suggestions will really change the issue, just move the target. That is why we have forums, to discuss things like this. Part of the issue is you are hellbent on there only being one way to play this game and fail to understand that most people don't care if they gained 2% more heat efficiency if they do fine without the upgrade.

There are also answers beyond removing a piece of equipment because there is a better version of it or altering the un-upgraded version. One thing has already been done with the Build contest. This isn't the main thing driving new players away. The main thing is the same as an old game I used to play. They are dropped into the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim and there are sharks in there as well.

[Shumabot]

Thirdstar, on 27 March 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Can't we just discuss perhaps Mustrum's ideas about the heat scale and SHS/DHS instead? This mudslinging is getting tiring.

We've all floated comments to the effect of altering scaling or redistributing where the bonus' come from in DHS. They've glossed over it every time. I've proposed two seperate systems, neither one was ever commented on by them.

Edited by Shumabot, 27 March 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Thirdstar]

Sifright, on 27 March 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

The problem is, CW is vapourware at this point.

I don't have high confidence it's coming any time soon. PGi stated it would be 90 days after open beta started..

well we are more than double that length of time now and we still don't have any actual details about what CW is going to entail beyond vagueries, given the absolute lack of detail about cw or to be honest the clans as well how any one can have such faith that it's all coming soon I don't know.

I can tell you this though, every tech company i've ever worked at if we had a product/feature road map and had even slightly solid details on what is coming we discussed it with our customers to get preemptive feedback.

Where is the information on what CW is actually going to be.

What we have now, that's all we're getting for the forseeable future. It's going to be linked to an HTML style map and that's pretty much what CW will entail.

You guys can't have taken that ancient Dev blog seriously.

There's is no pot of gold at the end of this MWO rainbow.

[Sifright]

Mercules, on 27 March 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

No, I want to play a FPS sim in the Battletech universe. Mechwarrior tactics is vastly inferior to an existing way to play Battletech over the internet.



Your opinion may or may not make the game better. Some of us don't think your suggestions will really change the issue, just move the target. That is why we have forums, to discuss things like this. Part of the issue is you are hellbent on there only being one way to play this game and fail to understand that most people don't care if they gained 2% more heat efficiency if they do fine without the upgrade.

There are also answers beyond removing a piece of equipment because there is a better version of it or altering the un-upgraded version. One thing has already been done with the Build contest. This isn't the main thing driving new players away. The main thing is the same as an old game I used to play. They are dropped into the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim and there are sharks in there as well.

Sure but it doesn't help that the newbies are being throw in old american M24 Chaffee tanks against Tiger tanks..

It would also help, if the below wasn't what the game did to newbies either.

[Thirdstar]

Mercules, on 27 March 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

One thing has already been done with the Build contest.

The build contest that was Goonbombed by Lowtax and their pet Dev? THAT build contest?

It succeeded in handing new players a Dragon 5N.........why don't we just shoot them in the head when they sign up for an account instead?

Edited by Thirdstar, 27 March 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[Shumabot]

Quote

Your opinion may or may not make the game better. Some of us don't think your suggestions will really change the issue, just move the target. That is why we have forums, to discuss things like this. Part of the issue is you are hellbent on there only being one way to play this game and fail to understand that most people don't care if they gained 2% more heat efficiency if they do fine without the upgrade.

If it were 2% yeah, that'd be nothing. But it's not. It usually accounts for a 60-80% increase in efficiency OR a significant drop in the tonnage required to handle SHS allowing more weapons and much larger engines. I mentioned an awesome variety earlier. It needs 27 SHS to function, and it can shave off 14 tons by switching to DHS and then getting the largest possible standard engine then filling with DHS. This allows it to put in heavier weapons and max armor. That is a huge difference in power.

[Sifright]

Thirdstar, on 27 March 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

The build contest that was Goonbombed? THAT build contest?

The mech builds they chose... dear god were they bad.

Did you guys see the A1 mech? I couldn't help but laugh that they wanted newbies to use three different missile systems that were all badly optimized for in terms of build coherence never mind actual combat effectiveness.

[Shumabot]

Thirdstar, on 27 March 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

The build contest that was Goonbombed? THAT build contest?

That dragon was still better than 95% of trial mechs.