175 replies to this topic

[Inertiamon]

Only properly read the first couple of pages so forgive any repetion here - but the assumption that easy=popular is a very dangerous one and is entirely countered by the recent success of mobas, and the longstanding success of CS and eve.

Plenty of people are happy to traverse a hard start if there's any point in doing so. Currently in mech there simply isn't. The only reason to give this game any time is because you're a fan of the franchise and like the mechs. There's literally nothing else to play for right now. Even something simple like a public stat leaderboard would double the current meta depth.

As someone said before, this IP has got some solid history going for it. I wish that could translate into some MMO style themed battlegrounds with some more tangible and staged objectives. It's a lot of work obviously, but could be given longevity by bonuses for completing stages within time/damage limits etc which could all then be fed back into public leaderboards.

It's astonishing that cap the red square seems to be an accepted endgame.

[Inertiamon]

DeadlyNerd, on 25 March 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Let me do this again as you obviously didn't notice the first time.

http://mwomercs.com/...raining-grounds

No one, and I mean absolutely NO ONE, writes hand holding tutorials for each and every feature of his software.
Users have documentation and the "Help" button for those sorts of things.

I'm not sure you're aware how high the bar is set elsewhere. Try Hawken, Dota2, Heroes of Newerth, Warframe, War Thunder for some free and fantastic examples of New user experience. Most incorporate all the minutia into some in-engine solo missions which in turn yield currency. That would be a good way to get people their first mech...by the time they own it they've covered movement, loadout, weapon grouping, targetting, iwar and the economy and will be in a great place to try out the mech they just picked.

[Teralitha]

Inertiamon, on 25 March 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Only properly read the first couple of pages so forgive any repetion here - but the assumption that easy=popular is a very dangerous one and is entirely countered by the recent success of mobas, and the longstanding success of CS and eve.

Plenty of people are happy to traverse a hard start if there's any point in doing so. Currently in mech there simply isn't. The only reason to give this game any time is because you're a fan of the franchise and like the mechs. There's literally nothing else to play for right now. Even something simple like a public stat leaderboard would double the current meta depth.

As someone said before, this IP has got some solid history going for it. I wish that could translate into some MMO style themed battlegrounds with some more tangible and staged objectives. It's a lot of work obviously, but could be given longevity by bonuses for completing stages within time/damage limits etc which could all then be fed back into public leaderboards.

It's astonishing that cap the red square seems to be an accepted endgame.

This is all very true... and the focus on engame content only will be wasted if no one has a desire to reach it.

[DeadlyNerd]

Inertiamon, on 25 March 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

I'm not sure you're aware how high the bar is set elsewhere. Try Hawken, Dota2, Heroes of Newerth, Warframe, War Thunder for some free and fantastic examples of New user experience. Most incorporate all the minutia into some in-engine solo missions which in turn yield currency. That would be a good way to get people their first mech...by the time they own it they've covered movement, loadout, weapon grouping, targetting, iwar and the economy and will be in a great place to try out the mech they just picked.

You're forgetting how big the companies that developed those games are.
On top of that, those games aren't failing at releasing content, which this one is.

Btw, original dota never had a tutorial, yet somehow it's the most popular W3 mod, if not the most popular game.
Do we really live in a world where one wouldn't be able to unlock his door if there wasn't a tutorial telling him how to do it?

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 25 March 2013 - 05:40 AM.

[Inertiamon]

S2 games are 30 people yet their output is incredible. What about Unknown Worlds and NS2? Superb static guides and ingame elements make short work of quite a complex premise.

Whilst most of the above are certainly larger than PGi they only got there by doing the right thing. Are you honestly sticking to the point that this games doesn't need a solid UX to enjoy good conversion?

Edited by Inertiamon, 25 March 2013 - 05:46 AM.

[Inertiamon]

Or have I misread this and are you just saying you don't want an improved new user experience at the cost of more content?

[MustrumRidcully]

DeadlyNerd, on 25 March 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

You're forgetting how big the companies that developed those games are.
On top of that, those games aren't failing at releasing content, which this one is.

And do you think players wil ljust say: "Oh, this company is small, they can't afford a real tutorial, but I should help them stay afloat out of the kindness fo my heart."
Saying this is just saying "PGI is too small to have any success".

Maybe that is true. That would be sad.

[The Basilisk]

A conversation I had with a dear friend of mine.
....(casual discussions of games out there)...

Basicaly MWO isn't a Game for new players.

>>"....waaaaaiiiit a minute....WHAT ????"

-- Seriously Mechwarrior...its a Game for fans of the Battletech Universe.
And Mechwarrior online could have been the coolest Battletech inspired Game of mecha warfare ever.
-- But it isn't and it will never be.

>>Why ?

-- Because the developers have to earn money.

>>But why isn't the game at least a nice looking casual screw up of the Battletech setting with some silly arcade like controls every damn hairless ape out there is able to grasp in a few minutes ? As it is they won't earn money, dump battletech fans and get no new players to stay.

-- Exactly

>> Häää ?!?

-- They try to do both at once and so nobody is satisfied. Besides, attemps to bring contradictory preferences under one roof is a troubbeling thing to do. Would be easier to target a certain group.

Now we play STO and Guildwars 2 and are two very happy little computer nerdys...

But regarding MWO....
It boils down to either get rid of the crowd or make a nice iti biti casual game.

Edited by The Basilisk, 25 March 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[Yokaiko]

******** matchmaker, and over agressive moderators.

Uninstalled.

[DeadlyNerd]

MustrumRidcully, on 25 March 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

And do you think players wil ljust say: "Oh, this company is small, they can't afford a real tutorial, but I should help them stay afloat out of the kindness fo my heart."
Saying this is just saying "PGI is too small to have any success".

Maybe that is true. That would be sad.

PGI is small enough that they have little to no time they can waste on constructing tutorials. Their current goal now should be keeping current well paying customers from leaving instead of attracting ADD infested crowd that moves from one game to another like changing a pair of socks.

Inertiamon, on 25 March 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Or have I misread this and are you just saying you don't want an improved new user experience at the cost of more content?

More content IS improved user experience.

Shall I link the training grounds on the game's site again? Is everyone incapable of clicking 2 big titles on the homepage?
This is not catering to new players, this is catering to ******* and morons.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 25 March 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[sC4r]

would be nice if PGI did the "make your heavy trial mech" for each class... choose hmmm 1 good variant per chassis and keep them rotating in trial...

like sometimes when i take the trial mech for a ride its hell and especially if you get some terrible stock variant (dragon 5n, most unarmored lights and so on...)

[Krell Darkmoon]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 March 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

I mean, one thing seems obvious. We really need a real tutorial. If you have any idea how to design this tutorial, make sure to mention it.

Rather than make a Tutorial the Devs said to help new players learn to "Walk" they've decided 3rd Person View is the best teacher for new people.

Personally, unliked n uninstalled. Enjoy yall, they already got all the Cash they'll ever get from me.

[MustrumRidcully]

DeadlyNerd, on 25 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

PGI is small enough that they have little to no time they can waste on constructing tutorials. Their current goal now should be keeping current well paying customers from leaving instead of attracting ADD infested crowd that moves from one game to another like changing a pair of socks.

You mean like the million of WoW players that immediately abandonded the game for other titles, right?

Quote

More content IS improved user experience.

Not if you never get to the point you can see it.

Most online games have serious end game problems. MW:O is certainly the worst offender here. but if your intial user experience sucks, you won't get people to see the end content anyway.

[Inertiamon]

Well if we're talking about precise scheduling and resourcing issues we'll have to bow to DeadlyNerd's judgement as I can't see the whiteboard on the wall in the PGI office from where I'm sitting.

Also fully in agreement with him that people who can't automatically understand the nuances of targeting when ECM is making both enemy and friendly mechs indistinguishable are morons. What's the matter with those chumps?

[Skunk Wolf]

It's not like Call of Duty.

Seriously, that's the number one complaint about every new game, and it drives developers nuts.

[MaddMaxx]

So were holding the presses, no more Mechs, no more Tweaks or Bug fixes, no more Content for the current player-base, until this Tutorial gets created and created to the "satisfaction" of the Community, obviously the current Help is not satisfactory, otherwise the new players might leave even after playing the best Tutorial eva, and then, would it be the Communities fault or the Tutorial's fault?

Who keeps this Tutorial, with real voice, moving targets that shoot back and Drill Sgt. Dan yelling at everyone, current when not all the content is in yet?

How do you create a proper tutorial without all the Content?

[Giani]

Guys, guys, don't worry. All these issues will be sorted out and a full tutorial in place before they go open b.... oh wait, they blew that one. At least we have in game weapon stats now! (and how friggin long did that take?) Hope they made a ton off the premature ob launch cause that decision has certainly lost them loads of long term players. Of course from what I've been seing they are more interested in the short term. Pity...

[MaddMaxx]

Giani, on 25 March 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Guys, guys, don't worry. All these issues will be sorted out and a full tutorial in place before they go open b.... oh wait, they blew that one. At least we have in game weapon stats now! (and how friggin long did that take?) Hope they made a ton off the premature ob launch cause that decision has certainly lost them loads of long term players. Of course from what I've been seeing they are more interested in the short term. Pity...

Interesting. Would you link us in to those Players Lost Stat sheets you obviously have. Please.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 March 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

MustrumRidcully, on 25 March 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

You mean like the million of WoW players that immediately abandonded the game for other titles, right?


Not if you never get to the point you can see it.

Most online games have serious end game problems. MW:O is certainly the worst offender here. but if your intial user experience sucks, you won't get people to see the end content anyway.

Lol, millions of players HAVE abandoned WoW for other titles but not cause of the lack of a tutorial but cause the game didn't suit their tastes.
Also, the situation is a lot different than it was when WoW came out. Then a lack of content wasn't that much of a problem since there weren't many MMO games to choose from. Now you've titles coming out left and right. You don't compete with that with just a tutorial.

Again, 25 games. That's it, you're now looking at the game's whole content.
Oh I get it, they've got to hold the hands of every new player, catering to their every need just so they can get to see the lack of content this game has and leave the moment after. Are you people daft?
Tutorial isn't going to keep this game alive, meta game IS.
You don't need new players when there aren't any old players to play against.

For the Nth time:

http://mwomercs.com/...raining-grounds

Sorry but learning2play doesn't get simpler than that. You don't even have to turn off that pesky tutorial check box in the options like in most games.

Oh and let's not forget that there's the big yellow button saying "Visit the training grounds" when you start up the client.

Inertiamon, on 25 March 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Well if we're talking about precise scheduling and resourcing issues we'll have to bow to DeadlyNerd's judgement as I can't see the whiteboard on the wall in the PGI office from where I'm sitting.

Also fully in agreement with him that people who can't automatically understand the nuances of targeting when ECM is making both enemy and friendly mechs indistinguishable are morons. What's the matter with those chumps?

That's the problem of ECM, not a lack of tutorial.
Also, tell a new guy that this game contains a feature only certain mechs can have, that renders certain weapons obsolete against them and see how thrilled he'll be to play this game.
Now now, you showed him a tutorial about ECM. He should be ******* happy to play against a broken feature just cause you showed him a tutorial.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 25 March 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[Icepick]

Edit: Removed rational suggestion from irrational thread.

Edited by Icepick, 25 March 2013 - 10:11 AM.