283 replies to this topic

[LiminalSpace]

PaintedWolf, on 24 March 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Okay, do you see why I find your arguments hard to believe when you can't even answer basic yes and no questions?



So basically you can't answer a simple yes or no question.

Look fine, you don't have to answer any questions you don't want to, but don't expect me to believe you are just 100% objective observers just trying to correct a bug.

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Answer yes or no. Can you give me a yes or no answer?

[Joseph Mallan]

LiminalSpace, on 25 March 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Answer yes or no. Can you give me a yes or no answer?

No.
I cannot stop beating my wife.
Reason:
I never started.

[Mazzyplz]

Narcisoldier, on 25 March 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I have never been one-shotted in this game except by headshots and LRMs during the short-lived LRM-pocalypse.




They did nothing to the ac/20. What would you have PGI do? Increase SRM damage? Then the splatcat comes back. Nerf AC/20? Then the gauss cat comes back. Unless all weapons do the same alpha and the same DPS, produce the same heat and all weigh the same, there is always going to be a *best* weapon and we're all just going to have to live with that.

This is not the battletech RP you want it to be; it's a competitive shooter. Suck it up, buttercup.

there was nothing wrong with the splatcat, you just sucked.
tilting your body to the left or right made the missiles hit your arms and after a few shots the ears were gone, you could shoot them from afar; again you just suck.

maybe if you cared to target the catapult and read it's loadout you wouldn't have to let it close to you,
the jagermech is even worse because you can't do anything about their loadout if you even know it;
they're still good at all ranges

ac20 doesn't have a 250m limit. it's far worse not to have those missiles to keep from being facehumped by that build.

gauss is already making a comeback if you haven't noticed.

yeah i'm saying bring back the damage from SRM, fix the splash bug, remove splash whatever but make it a real weapon again

Edited by Mazzyplz, 25 March 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Gaan Cathal, on 25 March 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

I meant more from the perspective of the game than the man holding the AK that just turned into a musket. Overpowered weapon = every other weapon sucks. Underpowered weapon = one weapon sucks. (Or at any rate, only one weapon sucks as a result of that action. I'm looking at you, Machine Gun)

I know. Take out splash damage. assess 1.8 LRMs and 2.5 SRMs determine if damage is acceptable. Adjust as needed!

[Captain Stiffy]

HOLY CRAP I CANT EVEN CLICK THROUGH THE PAGES OF THIS THREAD AS FAST AS THEY ARE PILING UP

[Mystere]

I am not about to read 14 pages of cr@p (i.e. I've got a headache). As such ...

Which part of TEMPORARY did people not understand.

[Mazzyplz]

Mystere, on 25 March 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

I am not about to read 14 pages of cr@p (i.e. I've got a headache). As such ...

Which part of TEMPORARY did people not understand.

everyone understood perfectly, this thread is also temporary, as soon as they fix the missiles it's gone

[Commander Kobold]

GODzillaGSPB, on 24 March 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

srm2...a 1t weapon that does 3 pinpoint damage. Yep, that's pretty much weak, isn't it. /sarcasm

small laser does it better

[MischiefSC]

Vassago Rain, on 25 March 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

It never was. It simply meant you could brawl..

If I can't brawl, I won't be playing. And I haven't been playing. COINCIDENCE!?

First, SRMs are doing good. Could stand a little help but still doing good. My C4 is still kicking but and it's 1ERLL (for Desert/Alpine) and 4xSRM6+Artemis.

You need Artemis though. You really do. You keep a tad more range so you can hit and move away, hit and move away. I soloed an Atlas and a Cataphract yesterday on Forest with it though and representing well. It's just a bit more tactical. You need to consider what you're going to do if they don't die from this shot before you jump in and take it.

Second, try the Jag. Dual AC20 Jagermech with 280XL, 2MLs and 5 tons of ammo is a ******** beast of a brawler. No JJs but the arms are high on the torso, letting you step up, pop a shot and get back behind cover. The game is as much about brawling as it ever was.

Don't be a sissy, Vass. If you were good before you'll be good now. You just need to allow for an extra shot or two per target but they still work. Just have to be a tad more careful and tactical now. It also means that zombie Centurions and D-DCs are not going to blow the crap out of you or pop an ear off if they catch you. It hurts, but it's not that destructive.

The game is still about brawling. PPC boats are what they always were - lucky to catch you at range if they set up and you walk into their killbox, a quick kill if not. Also you'll find legs more vulnerable. MUCH more vulnerable, especially on the big mechs now.

Poptarts are how you farm noobs. They're still slow and clumsy up close and 2x AC20 wrecks them pretty quickly.

Come play. The difference is 90% in your head. They were OPed before and got fixed. They'll probably get a tiny buff of some sort (shots/ton, maybe damage or clustering or splash) and be spot on like lasers are. Ballistics will get State Rewind and will be the next QQ of choice.

Jag baby. 2xAC20 and an XL. It's like the A1 but with precision damage instead of no JJs. Want comedy gold? That Atlas on Tourmaline desert who just overheated? COCKPIT HIM. 1 shot. It's hilarious. I get calls of 'cheater!' all the time for it. Same with stalkers. The Jag has high-mounted arm weapons. You can hit the Stalkers cockpit with it when that boat overheats. BOINK. 1 shot, sinks like the titanic.

It's still fun. More than it was. Quit crying and come blow s**t up.

[Mazzyplz]

MischiefSC, on 25 March 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

First, SRMs are doing good. Could stand a little help but still doing good. My C4 is still kicking but and it's 1ERLL (for Desert/Alpine) and 4xSRM6+Artemis.

You need Artemis though. You really do. You keep a tad more range so you can hit and move away, hit and move away. I soloed an Atlas and a Cataphract yesterday on Forest with it though and representing well. It's just a bit more tactical. You need to consider what you're going to do if they don't die from this shot before you jump in and take it.

Second, try the Jag. Dual AC20 Jagermech with 280XL, 2MLs and 5 tons of ammo is a ******** beast of a brawler. No JJs but the arms are high on the torso, letting you step up, pop a shot and get back behind cover. The game is as much about brawling as it ever was.

Don't be a sissy, Vass. If you were good before you'll be good now. You just need to allow for an extra shot or two per target but they still work. Just have to be a tad more careful and tactical now. It also means that zombie Centurions and D-DCs are not going to blow the crap out of you or pop an ear off if they catch you. It hurts, but it's not that destructive.

The game is still about brawling. PPC boats are what they always were - lucky to catch you at range if they set up and you walk into their killbox, a quick kill if not. Also you'll find legs more vulnerable. MUCH more vulnerable, especially on the big mechs now.

Poptarts are how you farm noobs. They're still slow and clumsy up close and 2x AC20 wrecks them pretty quickly.

Come play. The difference is 90% in your head. They were OPed before and got fixed. They'll probably get a tiny buff of some sort (shots/ton, maybe damage or clustering or splash) and be spot on like lasers are. Ballistics will get State Rewind and will be the next QQ of choice.

Jag baby. 2xAC20 and an XL. It's like the A1 but with precision damage instead of no JJs. Want comedy gold? That Atlas on Tourmaline desert who just overheated? COCKPIT HIM. 1 shot. It's hilarious. I get calls of 'cheater!' all the time for it. Same with stalkers. The Jag has high-mounted arm weapons. You can hit the Stalkers cockpit with it when that boat overheats. BOINK. 1 shot, sinks like the titanic.

It's still fun. More than it was. Quit crying and come blow s**t up.

i have that same loadout in an awesome, try it.
you can't backpedal fast enough to avoid anything. let alone keep a 250m distance, atlas going forward is faster than you going back
the jagers come and facehug you with ac40. you're done.
missiles don't do anything

you can try to turn around and run forward by giving them your back, but it's just another way to bite the dust

had to do away with the 8r variant completely, back to boating PPC


maybe youre having a better time in the cat because of the lower profile, faster speed and jumpjets.
still doesn't change what is being discussed

Edited by Mazzyplz, 25 March 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Backpedal? ahahaha... oh that is rich!

[Mazzyplz]

Jonathan Paine, on 25 March 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Backpedal? ahahaha... oh that is rich!

yeah but that's what mischiefSC is advocating, keep a distance of full range for srm + artemis to be useful, you just can't sometimes.

do some reading it might save you a post:

Quote

My C4 is still kicking but and it's 1ERLL (for Desert/Alpine) and 4xSRM6+Artemis.

You need Artemis though. You really do. You keep a tad more range so you can hit and move away, hit and move away.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 25 March 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

MischiefSC, on 25 March 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

First, SRMs are doing good. Could stand a little help but still doing good. My C4 is still kicking but and it's 1ERLL (for Desert/Alpine) and 4xSRM6+Artemis.

I'm not so sure about that.
Took my CN9-D into a match and then into the Testing Grounds to check for SRM damage and it's positively underwhelming right now, definitely no more than 50% of what it used to be before splash damage was implemented; I would rather take my 5x LLAS boat CTF-1X into Caustic or Tourmaline than I would my CN9-D with 2x SRM6 - and it used to be my favorite 'Mech, too.

[MischiefSC]

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

i have that same loadout in an awesome, try it.
you can't backpedal fast enough to avoid anything. let alone keep a 250m distance, atlas going forward is faster than you going back
the jagers come and facehug you with ac40. you're done.
missiles don't do anything

you can try to turn around and run forward by giving them your back, but it's just another way to bite the dust

had to do away with the 8r variant completely, back to boating PPC

Or use LRMs. Or PPCs and SRMs. There's a lot of options, the Awesome 8R doesn't have to be the premier brawler for the chassis. Same thing with a C1 - it's not a good brawler. Fine sniper though. LRMs, 2LLS and tag?

In my D-DC I dropped one of my 3 SRM6s to move my ACs to 1xAC10,1xAC5. Plus 2LLs, 2xSRM6+artemis. Doing better with it than I did with with 3xSRM6,AC20 and 2xLLs. A bit more range now, I fight around 500-300. More options for moving to cover, the fights more tactical.

SRMs still work fine. They're just not OPed compared to other weapons. They have a place in the lineup just like Gauss, ERLLs, AC10s, UAC5s and the like. What they are not is the premier go-to brawling weapon. The AC20 is now and it should be.

The point of SRMs with Artemis is you fire your first shot at 180m or so, backpedaling the whole time. 2nd at about 120m, 3rd around 70. Instead of just hold to <100m, preferably 50.

More shots. Hence why I say the buff it needs is more ammo/ton.

I'm killing with my DDC with SRMs now, I'm watching people kill with SRMs and LRMs all over the place. They still work and work great. Need some buffing back up but just a little. More to ammo, speed and grouping. What they don't need is put back at OP premier weapon status.

[Mazzyplz]

MischiefSC, on 25 March 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Or use LRMs. Or PPCs and SRMs. There's a lot of options, the Awesome 8R doesn't have to be the premier brawler for the chassis. Same thing with a C1 - it's not a good brawler. Fine sniper though. LRMs, 2LLS and tag?

In my D-DC I dropped one of my 3 SRM6s to move my ACs to 1xAC10,1xAC5. Plus 2LLs, 2xSRM6+artemis. Doing better with it than I did with with 3xSRM6,AC20 and 2xLLs. A bit more range now, I fight around 500-300. More options for moving to cover, the fights more tactical.

SRMs still work fine. They're just not OPed compared to other weapons. They have a place in the lineup just like Gauss, ERLLs, AC10s, UAC5s and the like. What they are not is the premier go-to brawling weapon. The AC20 is now and it should be.

The point of SRMs with Artemis is you fire your first shot at 180m or so, backpedaling the whole time. 2nd at about 120m, 3rd around 70. Instead of just hold to <100m, preferably 50.

More shots. Hence why I say the buff it needs is more ammo/ton.

I'm killing with my DDC with SRMs now, I'm watching people kill with SRMs and LRMs all over the place. They still work and work great. Need some buffing back up but just a little. More to ammo, speed and grouping. What they don't need is put back at OP premier weapon status.

but if 8r is not the premier brawler of the chassis then what is? 8T? 9M? 8Q?
no way. it's still the premier brawler and it can't even do that right.

i refuse to use LRM. i'd rather stop playing this game altogether and be forced to play Qbert and ET on the atari 2600
for a week

they're not fine now, they're useless.
they were not OP before like you say;

beyond 250m they don't work, never did. outside of the splash bug there was nothing OP about it whatsoever, not even in splat cats if you took the time to learn to deal with them.

regarding to the 8r they have NO place in the weapon lineup because you get crushed by autocannons every match.

luckily my ppc variants are still putting up a fight

Edited by Mazzyplz, 25 March 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

but if 8r is not the premier brawler of the chassis then what is? 8T? 9M? 8Q?
no way. it's still the premier brawler and it can't even do that right.

i refuse to use LRM. i'd rather stop playing this game altogether and be forced to play Qbert and ET on the atari 2600
for a week

So use SRMs and keep a bit more range, or line up better? Do it like an Atlas and face-hump? Use pulse lasers and try to do pinpoint damage so when the SRMs hit there's already a weak spot?

Admittedly I don't pilot Awesomes but I got killed by one earlier. With SRMs btw.

Here's the thing. Brawl at ~130m now and keep moving. Don't backpedal, go sideways. ballistics have fire delays and convergence issues right now and so it's hard to hit a moving target accurately at that sort of range. Circling lights are easier; you aim at the ground right before they run past and you'll catch the legs. Assault torsos are harder.

Tactics are changing that's all. It still works just fine, people are using it to good effect. Spectate and see how, don't take my word for it. I'm far from a killing machine but I do alright. What I do is watch and spectate - a lot. I almost never drop. I spectate and watch what works.

[Mazzyplz]

MischiefSC, on 25 March 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

So use SRMs and keep a bit more range, or line up better? Do it like an Atlas and face-hump? Use pulse lasers and try to do pinpoint damage so when the SRMs hit there's already a weak spot?

Admittedly I don't pilot Awesomes but I got killed by one earlier. With SRMs btw.

Here's the thing. Brawl at ~130m now and keep moving. Don't backpedal, go sideways. ballistics have fire delays and convergence issues right now and so it's hard to hit a moving target accurately at that sort of range. Circling lights are easier; you aim at the ground right before they run past and you'll catch the legs. Assault torsos are harder.

Tactics are changing that's all. It still works just fine, people are using it to good effect. Spectate and see how, don't take my word for it. I'm far from a killing machine but I do alright. What I do is watch and spectate - a lot. I almost never drop. I spectate and watch what works.

heres the thing, the same strategies work for everything just fine,they still do honest;
EXCEPT for the jagermech.

they march forward with ac40 and the 4SRM6? yeah, that's not intimidating them. nor stopping them.
if nothing is done about this chassis/build, then missiles need to make a comeback or the 8R will end up in the trashcan faster than you can say urbanmech

[MischiefSC]

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

heres the thing, the same strategies work for everything just fine,they still do honest;
EXCEPT for the jagermech.

they march forward with ac40 and the 4SRM6? yeah, that's not intimidating them. nor stopping them.
if nothing is done about this chassis/build, then missiles need to make a comeback or the 8R will end up in the trashcan faster than you can say urbanmech

What's funny is that you're describing the Jag like it was an A1 back when it was all 'clip the ears'. 2xAC20 Jags almost universally have XL engines. Go precision damage and move perpendicular, not parallel, to their course. See, they'll have to lead you - the result will be their arms convergence will be off. At best they'll catch you with 1 shot or one in each torso. Where you get crunched is backing up. You give them a steady target and let them shoot while the crosshairs are on you and yeah. It's gonna sting.

Conversely they have crap for range.

I promise you. Jags are far from unstoppable. I placed 40th in Jags overall in the contest and never touched TAG or NARC or any of that - just pugging like normal. I do alright with them. The reason they charge and are not intimidated is because you've got to play it as a combo of hide-and-seek ambush and super-aggressive because with XLs and only moderate armor, at best ~20 total shots to take with passably accurate weapons.... honestly? They're a bit like the A1s were just no JJs and worse hitboxes.

They're a pure brawler and a good one in the right hands.

When state rewind comes in for ballistics it'll be the UAC5s or the AC2s that will be the issue. For now though....

2xAC20s and ammo comes out to 34 tons of brawling firepower. You get it with a huge, wide torso, all of which hides an explodable engine. Tough but not OP so. Play with your chassis until you find a build that works.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

there was nothing wrong with the splatcat, you just sucked.
tilting your body to the left or right made the missiles hit your arms and after a few shots the ears were gone, you could shoot them from afar; again you just suck.

maybe if you cared to target the catapult and read it's loadout you wouldn't have to let it close to you,
the jagermech is even worse because you can't do anything about their loadout if you even know it;
they're still good at all ranges

ac20 doesn't have a 250m limit. it's far worse not to have those missiles to keep from being facehumped by that build.

gauss is already making a comeback if you haven't noticed.

yeah i'm saying bring back the damage from SRM, fix the splash bug, remove splash whatever but make it a real weapon again

Way to entirely miss the point of my post.

[Mazzyplz]

MischiefSC, on 25 March 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

What's funny is that you're describing the Jag like it was an A1 back when it was all 'clip the ears'. 2xAC20 Jags almost universally have XL engines. Go precision damage and move perpendicular, not parallel, to their course. See, they'll have to lead you - the result will be their arms convergence will be off. At best they'll catch you with 1 shot or one in each torso. Where you get crunched is backing up. You give them a steady target and let them shoot while the crosshairs are on you and yeah. It's gonna sting.

Conversely they have crap for range.

I promise you. Jags are far from unstoppable. I placed 40th in Jags overall in the contest and never touched TAG or NARC or any of that - just pugging like normal. I do alright with them. The reason they charge and are not intimidated is because you've got to play it as a combo of hide-and-seek ambush and super-aggressive because with XLs and only moderate armor, at best ~20 total shots to take with passably accurate weapons.... honestly? They're a bit like the A1s were just no JJs and worse hitboxes.

They're a pure brawler and a good one in the right hands.

When state rewind comes in for ballistics it'll be the UAC5s or the AC2s that will be the issue. For now though....

2xAC20s and ammo comes out to 34 tons of brawling firepower. You get it with a huge, wide torso, all of which hides an explodable engine. Tough but not OP so. Play with your chassis until you find a build that works.

my torso sticks out enough that giving them my profile does not do me any good, they can still core my CT from the side.
any other tips?

ps.
this trick actually worked against atlas and splatcats because their missiles weren't hitting just 1 perfect tiny spot, now with this new brand of cheese - nothing will save me but to pilot another chassis entirely

Edited by Mazzyplz, 25 March 2013 - 03:23 PM.