327 replies to this topic

[Teralitha]

Noobzorz, on 27 March 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

What the **** was going on in the leagues you played in?

Real strategy and tactics. We had the weapons to deal with campers. Artillery, Long toms, cluster munitions.

There werent any caves to hide in though, so that would be something to think about. But battles do happen in the caves now, and they are brutal. When I still played a serious game with a team, I used to always have someone scout the caves, and my scout would get there before the whole enemy team could, so I would know what their plan was then. But the tactics were still dictated by base capping. The enemy team couldnt just sit there. If the whole enemy sat in the cave and refused to come out, and we refused to go in, I guess it would be a draw. And thats fine. But with some trial and error I might still find a way to break that tactic. If the game had long toms, that would work.

Thinking about it some more, it wouldnt be that hard really, that cave doesnt really allow for more than 1 or 2 mechs to get line of site on either entrance. It would just be a fight with no one having the advantage really.

Edited by Teralitha, 27 March 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Shively]

Given that TDM can be problematic with no respawns, as a single light or whatever could just run away until time runs out (this happened frequently even in Assault mode during CB, and persists still), it's probably a horrendous choice for a new game mode.

However, this guy:

Corbon Zackery, on 24 March 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

I think you see more of a king of the hill style of game play were you have 8-12 people trying to claim a hill in the center of the board.

Is onto something. Take two full teams of 8/12, stick them on a map, and give them one large objective to fight over, slowly whittling down "tickets" of the enemy team (as in Conquest) while they have more mechs on-point than the opposing team.

There'd be no option but to fight in this mode - the light that attempts to run only does his team a disservice, as the enemy will simply just stay on the point and cap - it forces all players into combat, and does a much better (and terminable) job of producing an action-packed game mode than TDM likely ever could.

You guys've really got to break from the "WAAAHH I want it" mindset, and do more thinking about what gameplay changes your suggestions would make. TDM is a bad idea, but it looks like King of the Hill is more than salvageable - and probably much less likely to be met with dev resistance.

Edited by Shively, 27 March 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[8RoundsRapid]

Can't vote 'no' on a yes or no question?

lol fail poll.

And TDM is a horrible game mode. Always has been, always will be. It has no place in a 'thinking man's' shooter such as MWO.

[Noobzorz]

8RoundsRapid, on 27 March 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Can't vote 'no' on a yes or no question?

lol fail poll.

And TDM is a horrible game mode. Always has been, always will be. It has no place in a 'thinking man's' shooter such as MWO.

TDM is rad, silly fun, but there is a reason why every competitive format in every class shooter has abandoned it entirely. Teralitha is stuck in 1996. Don't bother.

Edited by Noobzorz, 27 March 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

There are 2 big problems with TDM, and they are the griefers who hide or run away to prevent the game from ending, and the massed clump effect (I.e. camping the strongest position on the map and refusing to move)

A king-of-the-hill game would be a great substitution for TDM because you can't grief the enemy team by running away, therefore it solves one of the two problems mentioned earlier. The other problem would be solved as long as the Capture Point is in a location that can be fired upon from several directions; the Hill should not be a defensive position, but rather a vulnerable position. That would force tactical fights instead of Hill-Rushing.

[Teralitha]

8RoundsRapid, on 27 March 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Can't vote 'no' on a yes or no question?

lol fail poll.

And TDM is a horrible game mode. Always has been, always will be. It has no place in a 'thinking man's' shooter such as MWO.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The poll is doing very well actually. Its keeping out most of the trolls, as intended.

[Shively]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The poll is doing very well actually. Its keeping out most of the trolls, as intended.

Not everyone that disagrees with you is a troll.

[REDACTED]

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 March 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Taemien]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Its a nice post, but this statement has no relevance to the rest of your post.

A true assault mode should have only 1 base, 1 attacker, 1 defender. I would like that mode. But for the high end competitive team play, only TDM will suffice. And high end competitive play is what Im here for. If we dont have it, there is no reason for players like me to waste our time here.

Instead of calling it Team death match, it should be called "Ranked Play", and assault can be for everyone else.

The competitive play you are looking for cannot be found in simply readying up a mech and clicking launch. True competitive play is when you get a team together, agree to terms of play with an opposing team and launch in a scheduled match. Unfortunately that style of play isn't available in MWO and won't be for some time.

It was available in previous titles and MW4 may yet still provide for it. Failing that, MWLL has it.

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

TDM were the #1 most popular modes in past mechwarrior titles.

TDM was the least favorite game mode in MWLL. So that title isn't 100% true. MW2 and MW3 only had Deathmatch, MW4 only had Deathmatch and CTF and then Mercs only had Deathmatch.

In fact the no respawn in MWO is the first time it was set as a standard. Barring MPBT3025 of course.

Make sure -your- facts are straight. Some of us actually have played previous titles and have been for the last decade. The true remnant haven't taken a 10 year hiatus.


Also since its been a few pages, I will reiterate that the game modes available are limited due to the size of the player base. If we want to continue to protect the person queuing solo from 8 man or 12 man premades, then we have to keep the number of game modes to a minimum. So the next game mode chosen has to be chosen carefully.

Unless of course we don't mind the solo people getting PUG stomped. No one's really responded to my statements about that. It seems everyone is content to ignore those facts. But in case you came into the discussion late, here is the quote from my statements and facts earlier:

Taemien, on 27 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

So you have no issues dropping solo against a 8 man or 12 man premade? If that is the case, then good for you, you'll enjoy getting stomped on in TDM.

Its a give and take situation. More game modes means the match maker is going to get wonky and eventually have to go back to CB. Where 8 man (and in the future, 12 man) teams will be dropping against PUGs. We know by PGI's statements, that most people drop in teams. To facilitate this with the ability to choose game modes (a split queue) they will have to drop the group restrictions to make the queue times bearable.

I'm sure 3 game modes won't be 'that' bad. But we want another game mode that is more interesting than simply TDM right? Lets say they add CtF, KotH, TDM, ect. Thats five game modes. Right now the queue is split by 2 game modes and we have complaints about weight balancing and ELO being weird. Now complicate that with 5 game types.

We'll lose the 8 man vs 8 man only. And end up with them back in the normal pool. Then we have 12v12 happening and now we've got 5-12 people in a group vs 12 potential puggers. Solaris games is another option that will split those game types up even more. And we know that is on the horizon.

The only solution to have all those game modes and keep 8 and 12 man teams in their own queues, is to effectively double the playerbase for each game mode added.

Effectively you all have a choice:

Forget about TDM and have 8/12 mans not in the same queue as solo players.

Or

Have TDM and have solo players getting stomped by 8+ man teams.

Which do you all want? The poll should be changed to reflect that.

Edited by Taemien, 27 March 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Teralitha]

Prosperity Park, on 27 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

There are 2 big problems with TDM, and they are the griefers who hide or run away to prevent the game from ending, and the massed clump effect (I.e. camping the strongest position on the map and refusing to move)

A king-of-the-hill game would be a great substitution for TDM because you can't grief the enemy team by running away, therefore it solves one of the two problems mentioned earlier. The other problem would be solved as long as the Capture Point is in a location that can be fired upon from several directions; the Hill should not be a defensive position, but rather a vulnerable position. That would force tactical fights instead of Hill-Rushing.

The first problem is solved by grief/report function. OR, by not having stats other than win/loss. People only hide to protect stats.

Camping isnt/wont be a problem. Coordinated teams know how to break campers.

Shively, on 27 March 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Not everyone that disagrees with you is a troll.

[REDACTED]

I dont think everyone who disagrees is a troll. Just the ones who act like trolls. Properity Park dsiagrees with me, but Im not calling him a troll am I. No because he isnt acting like one.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 March 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[EvilCow]

Taemien, on 27 March 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Team Death Match was tried in MechWarrior Living Legends. It was the base game mode for the mod and everyone clamored to have something else. Most of the players there did not enjoy it compared to Terrain Control and it was determined to be inferior and boring.

Terrain Control is a very different beast than Conquest. I would prefer Terrain Control but a lame Team Deathmatch would be preferable to what we have now.

[Mercules]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

I dont think everyone who disagrees is a troll. Just the ones who act like trolls. Properity Park dsiagrees with me, but Im not calling him a troll am I. No because he isnt acting like one.

None of us have acted like trolls yet. We are discussing your thread and ideas in a reasonable manner. There hasn't been a single troll attempt yet... I shouldn't state an absolute like that without checking though. I haven't noticed a single troll attempt. There that is better.

[Teralitha]

Taemien, on 27 March 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

TDM was the least favorite game mode in MWLL. So that title isn't 100% true. MW2 and MW3 only had Deathmatch, MW4 only had Deathmatch and CTF and then Mercs only had Deathmatch.

I never played MWLL. MW4 had tons of game modes actually.

Team death match
Team attrition
death match
attrition
CTF
King of the hill
seige
mission play
escort
instant action
Solaris game types
NHUA
respawn/norespawn
Fog levels
team only radar
no radar


did I miss anything?

Edit: I forgot about STOCK, one of my favories...

Mercules, on 27 March 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

None of us have acted like trolls yet. We are discussing your thread and ideas in a reasonable manner. There hasn't been a single troll attempt yet... I shouldn't state an absolute like that without checking though. I haven't noticed a single troll attempt. There that is better.

Then my poll is working as intended.

Edited by Teralitha, 27 March 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[8RoundsRapid]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The poll is doing very well actually. Its keeping out most of the trolls, as intended.

It's a biased poll and you know it. Just put in a simple 'no' response. It's easy.

And btw, a biased poll is a troll.

[Noobzorz]

Oh. I didn't realize you were the OP.

Ok. Now I am satisfied with just accepting you are a naive, trollish imbecile and moving on with my life.

(That King of the Hill mode sounds amazing.)

[Mercules]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Then my poll is working as intended.

Okay... there is a serious logical flaw in that statement. "*** hoc proptor hoc" or Correlation does not imply Causality. Just because no one trolled you does not mean that your poll was the cause. It could simply be that we don't wish to troll you or your thread might not be worthy of it.

Back on topic.

Terrain Control seems like it might work. I would probably vote to see that option added.

[Teralitha]

Shively, on 27 March 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Given that TDM can be problematic with no respawns, as a single light or whatever could just run away until time runs out (this happened frequently even in Assault mode during CB, and persists still), it's probably a horrendous choice for a new game mode.

However, this guy:


Is onto something. Take two full teams of 8/12, stick them on a map, and give them one large objective to fight over, slowly whittling down "tickets" of the enemy team (as in Conquest) while they have more mechs on-point than the opposing team.

There'd be no option but to fight in this mode - the light that attempts to run only does his team a disservice, as the enemy will simply just stay on the point and cap - it forces all players into combat, and does a much better (and terminable) job of producing an action-packed game mode than TDM likely ever could.

You guys've really got to break from the "WAAAHH I want it" mindset, and do more thinking about what gameplay changes your suggestions would make. TDM is a bad idea, but it looks like King of the Hill is more than salvageable - and probably much less likely to be met with dev resistance.

Thats great, start a new topic about it let us know how it goes.

[Teralitha]

8RoundsRapid, on 27 March 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

It's a biased poll and you know it. Just put in a simple 'no' response. It's easy.

And btw, a biased poll is a troll.

The purpose of the poll choices is to determine the number of players that would play TDM opposed to those who would not play it.

It has accomplished this purpose perfectly.

The poll results show that 62% of the players who voted want to play TDM. The other 38% prefer other modes.

Good poll is good.

Does this represent the entire player base? cant really say that, but I ll bet its not far off the mark. The results have settled to between 62-63% for most of the day. When people keep voting and the results stay relatively the same, I think thats a pretty good indication of what the whole player base prefers.

Edited by Teralitha, 27 March 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[RG Notch]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

The purpose of the poll choices is to determine the number of players that would play TDM opposed to those who would not play it.

It has accomplished this purpose perfectly.

The poll results show that 62% of the players who voted want to play TDM. The other 38% prefer other modes.

Good poll is good.

LOL and how many votes does your 62% account for? 152 at this time. Sounds like more than enough people to support a separate game mode.
Besides even if you get thousands of votes the devs have said the forums don't matter. Now if you can get loads of fellow LCD gamers to somehow let PGI know they want TDM then it'll be worked on quick. The apparent lesson is less what people on the forums want and more of what the LCD gaming crowd wants. Now to me TDM is ideal for these folks.
Anyways like I said before not all people who want TDM are knuckle draggers, but most knuckle draggers enjoy TDM. Thus numbers are on your side.

[Teralitha]

Whats a knuckle dragger?

[Mercules]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Whats a knuckle dragger?