327 replies to this topic

[Teralitha]

Rattlehead NZ, on 28 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Should of added the option "Would like TDM for 8v8 matches only"

I could add that, but there are lone wolf players that like TDM also.

[Marj]

Page 1:

"Not in competitive play. MW4 had pure TDM leagues for years. Manouvering around a large map to gain an advantage over the enemy is half the game. It allows for strategy other than rush or camp. What we have now is boring in comparison. I've lost very few assault 8 mans where I've camped my base...don't do it anymore because it's boring. I lost one conquest where I took 8 3L's in, but that was due to a screw up. I haven't lost one with that loadout since...so I stopped playing conquest in 8 mans when I'm DC'ing. Again, boring."

Page 11
"Seriously, think about where you end up fighting on any map. Even alpine peaks and tourmaline have certain areas fights always occur in. Why? Because if you don't sit between the enemy and your base you lose. If you split your force to try something clever like flanking their scout will spot you and your team will get rolled one half at a time. In TDM you'd be able to pull that half back, but in assault they have to stop the enemy from advancing...or you'll get capped. The enemy will just ignore the flankers, roll over the few mechs between them and the base and cap. This means most games play out roughly the same way...and it's boring. Is this really what you want for CW? HJ has even tested just rushing the enemy base. Literally ignoring the enemy team, running in a straight line to the enemy base and capping. It worked more often than not. Doesn't that tell you something?

The only reason assault appears to match TDM is because people can't manouvre, so you get a fight in roughly the same spot every time, and people will usually fight to the death because they find capping boring. With TDM you aren't bound to a base though. You can go anywhere, so strategy becomes much more important which makes the game more interesting. Does anyone who play 8 mans disagree with this?"

""We have TDM if no one decides to cap rush". If ONE person decides to cap rush the base has to be defended. Which takes mechs of the front line. Which means it's not TDM because different strategies apply. It's a different game. If people agreed to play without capping assault would work. This might happen when lobbies come in."

"I didn't say <pulling back> was easier in TDM. I said it is impossible in assault because by pulling back (through cover obviously) you will be abandoning a defensive position. Which means the enemy is free to cap. This of course assumes you are manouvering to counter an enemy advance, not already in a brawl.

Take your blob and I'll take my fast jump snipers hitting your back armour from range at different angles. Want to rush one? Get shot in the back by the other three. You'll lose two mechs to my one by the time you get it. Not to mention opening yourself up to a flank rush from my brawlers. Strategy. Try it."

[Havok1978]

well PGI isnt worried about fragmenting the player base at all so thats no longer issue.

[Deathlike]

I think it's ironic that the OP doesn't realize the poll will most likely be discounted (in addition to the rival poll) due to most trolling and biased thinking that won't convince reasonable people to change their minds.

[Marj]

Teralitha, on 28 March 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

I wish I could, but I always have to worry about those silly red squares....

This was my answer to someone's concern that TDM will devolve into blobs

Edited by Marj, 28 March 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[Bagheera]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 24 March 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

why do people make polls anymore when the voices in the devs' heads outnumber us on the forums?

They specifically told us that we, here, dont matter to them anymore in the third person thread.

This.

Stop wasting your time. They are not listening to us.

Post your poll on Twitter, Teralitha, you might get their attention.

[Deathlike]

Something to think about...

In MW4, TD was fine.. in the sense that you would respawn and there isn't exactly a direct consequence to it. The point in TD was mainly to kill more than be killed. It wasn't complicated, and really isn't.

In MWO, you have one life. That one life is precious. Of course this isn't real life (it's just a game), but when you are trying to value your mech in the match, people genuinely play differently.

When you respawn in MW4, you can be reckless as you wish. The consequence of dying is that you aren't doing any more damage, and it will take time to get back to the match at hand.

Since you don't respawn in MWO, people tend to be a lot more tentative We have plenty of people who seem to subscribe to the "save myself, screw everyone that dies". There's no logic there as there is just as much of it here. As much as we try to use logic that "it was done in the previous games", the simple fact that you die and it's over, changes the overall gameplay mechanics.

TD for this game is a smaller subset of Assault. If you are unable to address circumstances that cause TD games to be drawn out unnecessarily, it will be doomed to failure.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 March 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[Arete]

Where's the option "no"?

[Teralitha]

Deathlike, on 28 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Something to think about...

In MW4, TD was fine.. in the sense that you would respawn and there isn't exactly a direct consequence to it. The point in TD was mainly to kill more than be killed. It wasn't complicated, and really isn't.

In MWO, you have one life. That one life is precious. Of course this isn't real life (it's just a game), but when you are trying to value your mech in the match, people genuinely play differently.

When you respawn in MW4, you can be reckless as you wish. The consequence of dying is that you aren't doing any more damage, and it will take time to get back to the match at hand.

Since you don't respawn in MWO, people tend to be a lot more tentative We have plenty of people who seem to subscribe to the "save myself, screw everyone that dies". There's no logic there as there is just as much of it here. As much as we try to use logic that "it was done in the previous games", the simple fact that you die and it's over, changes the overall gameplay mechanics.

TD for this game is a smaller subset of Assault. If you are unable to address circumstances that cause TD games to be drawn out unnecessarily, it will be doomed to failure.

You are incorrect sir. MW4 competitive play was NO RESPAWN. your point is moot.

[Teh Ninja]

Corwin Vickers, on 27 March 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

I think you should actually read the thread as all your points are discussed. Or you could look at the 9 other threads on the forums.

If you had said something like "I don't think the single light mech evading everyone is a good enough reason to have a base" people might have a reason to look at what you're saying but as it stands now it appears you just hit "reply" without reading a single word.

My reason for doing that would be that it wasn't necessary. I was more just reiterating the points. it was just an opinion that i thought i would share. I really don't see how "the single light mech evading everyone" is productive at all, or any mech for that matter. To me it seems as though capping is just a way to avoid a fight, which is the only reason why I and some other people play... Because the game IS after all called MechWarrior: Online and not "go run and cap"Warrior: Online.

I just think it would be a nice option to have if you don't agree with that that's fine. Apparently the devs also find it a waste of time. Either way i enjoy the game and will continue to do so.

[Deathlike]

Teralitha, on 28 March 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

You are incorrect sir. MW4 competitive play was NO RESPAWN. your point is moot.

LOL

I was there, and respawn play was above all else being played. It was always TA/TAA/TD/KOTH/CTF... all respawn modes.

Stock mechs was probably like #2, but I didn't care for stock and didn't notice/care.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 March 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Vividos]

TDM would increase matchmaking times. the only way for it not to would be to REPLACE assault.
TDM would be boring compared to assault. OP says it would bring him and other players back, i somehow doubt that. the logic being being "bored" of assault is ridiculous. i played 40+ matches last night (first time playing since these TDM posts started cropping up due to new games like GoW:A and Bioshock Infinite coming out) and you know how many assaults were won by base capping? TWO. and in BOTH cases there was only 1 mech left alive on the losing team. one game it was the enemy who had one mech left and one game where *i* was the last mech alive while the enemy team capped. it's like a real war. i knew my cicada would not stand a chance against the 2 atlas and stalker that meandered over to our base after killing my team who never even moved far away from the base in the first place. in a real war, would i go in and charge them for no reason other than my own death? OF COURSE NOT! i'd let them cap the base and live to fight another day.
so basically, assault IS TDM because if 2 out of 40 matches are won by base capping, NOT by rushing but by already-achieved-victory, then all your complaints are unfounded.

maybe try playing the game instead of crying about a TDM mode? because it already exists. with another option for victory to make it BETTER. because, you know, that's what game developers do. they IMPROVE upon ideas. they dont rehash them with crappy versions of multiplayer from 1995. games that dont offer new and exciting takes on multiplayer are the ones that go down. not the ones that are different in their own way.

in short: NO ONE WINS BY BASE RUSHING IN ASSAULT.
so assault IS TDM - plus an extra option for victory that is only ever taken advantage of when that team already won anyways.
stop posting on the forums and play the game. realize how ignorant you are.

Edited by Vividos, 28 March 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Viper69]

Teralitha, on 28 March 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

You are incorrect sir. MW4 competitive play was NO RESPAWN. your point is moot.

What league did you play in if I may ask? Two of the 3 I played used respawns and vengence league I think was the only one I played that did not. So there were in fact leagues that used point accumulation at the end of the match.

[Havok1978]

Viterbi, on 28 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

As one of the people who actively reviews the community feedback for our developers, I would like you to know that we are not oblivious to the concept of research principles and analysis.

So for those of you who are worried that we are somehow unfairly inferring the will of the community based on "Biased polls," please rest assured that our feedback review process does involve an informed interpretation of how poll questions are posed.

On that note, several posts have been removed for violations of our Code of Conduct. Please remember to post in a way that positively contributes to discussion, without making directed attacks at other users.

see my post #250 @ who pilots warmachines to go cap a base.
devs dont really address us when it comes to gameplay, they will however take our suggestions on how to get money from us. perhaps someone with a bit more clout could look at what i said and bring it forth to the devs so that it could be claimed as thier own idea or whatever, idc i just want to see some actual results rather than them cherry picking "questions and answers" to address what they already have in mind.

and as a disclaimer i'm not trolling you i just dont believe they care what we think cept to demograph how to get our money.
evidence of this is with the whole 3rd person view controversy, the community on a broad scale doesnt want it but since the board of directors/ marketing do.. well, its gonna be shoved down our throats reguardless.
also see film grain controversy as people have been asking for a way to legitamitely turn it off for many months now with no results. consumers ask for a feature on a broad scale, it should be addressed.

[Murku]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Its not misleading. I just cleverly wrote it in such a way to keep the trolls at bay. but apparently it didnt work for all of them... eh.

Troll-speak. Having perused your thread I see all your responses to those not in agreement is 'you don't matter beacuse you don't want TDM, stop posting'. Can I ask your goal in this thread, because you cite the higher 'yes' to TDM as validation for your argument, but nay-say anyone with an opposing opinion.

Don't like Capture? Bring a balanced mech in PUG or a balanced group in teamed, respond to base capture warnings and don't expect Atlas convoys to be good at everything. Baserush groups ALWAYS LOSE if the defenders are ready for then, as turtling trumps zerg.

But hey, That's not a yes so your troll answer is on it's way...

Edited by Murku, 28 March 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Havok1978]

Vividos, on 28 March 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

TDM would increase matchmaking times. the only way for it not to would be to REPLACE assault.
TDM would be boring compared to assault. OP says it would bring him and other players back, i somehow doubt that. the logic being being "bored" of assault is ridiculous. i played 40+ matches last night (first time playing since these TDM posts started cropping up due to new games like GoW:A and Bioshock Infinite coming out) and you know how many assaults were won by base capping? TWO. and in BOTH cases there was only 1 mech left alive on the losing team. one game it was the enemy who had one mech left and one game where *i* was the last mech alive while the enemy team capped. it's like a real war. i knew my cicada would not stand a chance against the 2 atlas and stalker that meandered over to our base after killing my team who never even moved far away from the base in the first place. in a real war, would i go in and charge them for no reason other than my own death? OF COURSE NOT! i'd let them cap the base and live to fight another day.
so basically, assault IS TDM because if 2 out of 40 matches are won by base capping, NOT by rushing but by already-achieved-victory, then all your complaints are unfounded.

maybe try playing the game instead of crying about a TDM mode? because it already exists. with another option for victory to make it BETTER. because, you know, that's what game developers do. they IMPROVE upon ideas. they dont rehash them with crappy versions of multiplayer from 1995. games that dont offer new and exciting takes on multiplayer are the ones that go down. not the ones that are different in their own way.

in short: NO ONE WINS BY BASE RUSHING IN ASSAULT.
so assault IS TDM - plus an extra option for victory that is only ever taken advantage of when that team already won anyways.
stop posting on the forums and play the game. realize how ignorant you are.

completely false, the turbo cap is defintely in the game and it defintely annoys people. 15 people can be advanceing on each other ready to duke it out, assaults and lights alike and then there is one guy of whatever class that baserushes and begins capping, the entire teams on both sides telling him to stop and he just keeps going cuz it is a valid point.. in those cases
1 persons choice upsets 15 others and isnt ok

[Deathlike]

Viper69, on 28 March 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

What league did you play in if I may ask? Two of the 3 I played used respawns and vengence league I think was the only one I played that did not. So there were in fact leagues that used point accumulation at the end of the match.

IIRC, in serious play, there was "limited respawns" in some sort of PA (planetary assault) type component in leagues. However, these were still respawns based and server/player/league rules enforced drops.

The game simply plays differently when respawns are in the equation, but any straight translation from Assault to TD with no respawns completely change the dynamics and playstyles instituted in a game. If TD was strictly respawn and we'd spend 15 minutes to get the most kills... I'd be all for it. However, it won't work under the current system that deals with no respawns. It simply has too many holes.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if they can get performance working well if respawns are added... because you have to render mech corpses that are on the battlefield and judging from "previously horrific performance behavior" in earlier patches, this is not a simple thing to just "add in".

Edited by Deathlike, 28 March 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[Teralitha]

Viper69, on 28 March 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

What league did you play in if I may ask? Two of the 3 I played used respawns and vengence league I think was the only one I played that did not. So there were in fact leagues that used point accumulation at the end of the match.

I played in WNL, NBT, ADL, VnR, LH2 all of those were no respawn. I do know other leagues existed. TDM No respawning was considered the highest lvl of competitive play even if other leagues used different modes. And it certainly overshadows the game modes that exist in MWO, even a respawn game would be more fun than the modes we have here.

Edited by Teralitha, 28 March 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[Lucas the Bounty Hunter]

I vote for the king of the hill idea. Might need special maps for it though. One base in the center of the map. First team to get, say, 3 minutes of possession wins. Maps would need decent sniping locations and plenty of terrain cover around the cap area, but the base itself should be fairly open and vulnerable. I'm thinking of a large crater with a slightly raised plateau in the center. This kind of mode and map would emphasize tactical maneuvering and teamwork, such as baiting opponents away from the base while a friend get's on the point.

It should work.

[Zero Neutral]

Teralitha, on 24 March 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

This is not a question of who doesnt want it vs who does. This poll is just to find out the number of players that would prefer this mode over other modes.

Not long ago a Dev stated that TDM was going to be implemented. Now, today they have said its a waste of time to bother implementing. If you want TDM, place your votes, and definitely post your feedback.

Just to clarify the definition of Team Death Match mode... No bases to cap. No alternative objectives. No respawn. just team vs team to the death.

Having more choices is a good thing. Its keeps players around for the long term instead of getting bored and leaving. Case in point, Me. Im bored to death of assault mode and I wont even touch conquest because I think its garbage. Without another choice in game mode I am a player that quits playing and never returns. I am not alone either. Does PGI really want to lose more players? How many players like me have already left for good or just stopped playing for the same reason? By adding TDM you would be bringing us back into the game, and increasing the player base.


What he said.

Arguments Against:

Last enemy runs and hides. Solution:The team with the most remaining mechs(remaining tonnage for a tie breaker) when the time runs out wins. Losers receive a death. No point in running. Anyone who still does it is intentionally griefing and should be reported. (Idea came from Shismar)

Really this ruleset could be used for any game mode, because running and hiding til time runs out(or to protect stats) happens in all of them.

Updated:

Nope.