143 replies to this topic

[Franchi]

Eh dual AC20 jaggers are fine, yes they play in my preferred sandbox (sub270m) yes they have a +500 modifier to head shot my poor little catapult, but at the end of the day they have a juicy XL engine in a massive side torso, YUMMY!

[One Medic Army]

To the OP: torso twisting is OP, it must be nerfed

Edited by One Medic Army, 31 March 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[jay35]

Having played a crapton of PUG games since the Jager's release, my feeling is that until people start to respect them, identify them early, and focus on taking them out, AC40 Jagers will rightfully be popular. Until people start treating them like a splatcat and reacting accordingly (keeping distance, prioritizing them, trying not to lose track of them in the midst of battle), they will have to learn the hard way. Nothing wrong with that. Just a slight education curve, as there is every time a powerful build arrives and is for a short time all the rage.

[Bobdolemite]

I dont mind ac40 Jagers unless I round a corner and come face to face with one (bad for your health) stay at range and use speed (if you have it) most of them are pretty slow.

This thread got me thinking though. I run a dual Gauss Jager that does really well in most matches. In a couple weeks when people get tired of the range of AC20's and move to the gauss will there be a new generation of threads hating on "Gats" (Gauss Rats)?

It is annoying to see so much of the same thing, but most of these cheesy things have limitations namely being heat, speed, and or range. When these guys start to bug me I break out balanced mechs and they tend to do well despite the occasional oops moment when I do something stupid and get killed.

[DegeneratePervert]

I'd run something other than my AC/40 jager, but PGI broke my shotgun jager.

[Ryvucz]

I shoot them like any mech.

Higher chance to destroy their cockpit by accident, though.

[Braggart]

The game is simply dominated by high alpha combat. If your team is gonna win, they all need to focus on the larger burst they can do. then your team can drop enemies in a single volley from the team, or cripple them to the point they are useless.

that makes AC boats, PPC boats, and LRM boats so popular and strong. Alone they are weak and beatable. But when the other team realizes this and takes all high alpha builds, and a couple lights to do the scouting and distracting. Well you lost.

We are playing MechAssault not mechwarrior. Which is also why this game is gonna die unless PGI realizes this pinpoint accuracy doesnt work in a game that lets you take lots of heavy hitting weapons.

[subgenius]

Braggart, on 31 March 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

We are playing MechAssault not mechwarrior. Which is also why this game is gonna die unless PGI realizes this pinpoint accuracy doesnt work in a game that lets you take lots of heavy hitting weapons.

Except this his how it has worked in literally every PC game since Mechwarrior 2. It's been what, 18 years now? You think people would get over this point...

[XSerjo]

Braggart, on 31 March 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

We are playing MechAssault not mechwarrior. Which is also why this game is gonna die unless PGI realizes this pinpoint accuracy doesnt work in a game that lets you take lots of heavy hitting weapons.

Completely agree. Boating isn't problem. Pinpoint damage from all weapons (torso mounted, lower-actuated-arm mounted, arm-mounted - no difference) - that's the root.

subgenius, on 31 March 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

Except this his how it has worked in literally every PC game since Mechwarrior 2. It's been what, 18 years now? You think people would get over this point...

But times are changing. It was not a real problem in previous games, it is real problem now.

Edited by XSerjo, 31 March 2013 - 11:13 PM.

[Revorn]

If you see your Atlasbuddy is falling in beyond 3 seconds, only the Center is cored, well... yeah i guess we all "love" this CoD-Style gaming.

[aniviron]

PaintedWolf, on 25 March 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

Can't wait for those ultra-AC 20s. And MASC.

So you're as eager for the Hunchback IIC as me? ;]

[subgenius]

XSerjo, on 31 March 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

Completely agree. Boating isn't problem. Pinpoint damage from all weapons (torso mounted, lower-actuated-arm mounted, arm-mounted - no difference) - that's the root. But times are changing. It was not a real problem in previous games, it is real problem now.

No, they really aren't. We had exactly the same pinpoint convergence in all other Mechwarrior games. If anything, it is more distributed now that arm mounted weapons track separately! Despite what some in the boardgame crowd would like (and I'm not knocking them, I love tabletop gaming) precise component targeting has always been a part of PC Mechwarrior. Nothing new to see here.

Are there some weapon balance issues left? Probably. But I'm much more concerned with things like state rewind finalization so I can use ballistics as more than a random shot weapon (300ish ping all day every day...). A full redesign of the heat and pacing isn't what this game needs. I and many others think the current speed of play is great for a PC implementation of Mechwarrior.

Edited by subgenius, 31 March 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Cryll Ankiseth, on 31 March 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

LBX20

NOW THIS IS CRIT-SEEKING

[Frozen Winter]

I just run 6ac/2s on my Jager set to chainfire on my primary group. I like the idea of the ac/40 but it is too close for my tastes. I'll sit back here and dakka you to death. Six is a bit of a waste due to cooldowns but eh. Darn thing looks cool when shooting and when I look around my cockpit. XD

[Royalewithcheese]

subgenius, on 31 March 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

I and many others think the current speed of play is great for a PC implementation of Mechwarrior.

+1

Much as Mechwarrior 2 is a deeply excellent game that I have ridiculous nostalgia for, stuff died in seconds.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 31 March 2013 - 11:57 PM.

[Anjian]

Got three Jagers (S, A, DD), plus a few Phracts and the K2 for ballistics experimentation. I didn't find the dual UAC/5 Jager to be that impressive, although it did contribute its share of sniping kills. But if those weapons jammed...

The dual AC/10 Jager seems nearly as impressive as the dual AC/20 Jager. What it lacks in alpha damage, it makes up in increased versatility with range, greater ammo endurance and a faster firing rate.

[El Bandito]

Bobdolemite, on 31 March 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

I dont mind ac40 Jagers unless I round a corner and come face to face with one (bad for your health) stay at range and use speed (if you have it) most of them are pretty slow. This thread got me thinking though. I run a dual Gauss Jager that does really well in most matches. In a couple weeks when people get tired of the range of AC20's and move to the gauss will there be a new generation of threads hating on "Gats" (Gauss Rats)? It is annoying to see so much of the same thing, but most of these cheesy things have limitations namely being heat, speed, and or range. When these guys start to bug me I break out balanced mechs and they tend to do well despite the occasional oops moment when I do something stupid and get killed.

Nah, CTF-3D with 1 Gauss 2 PPC and JJs is every way more efficient than dual Gauss Jager.

Rightfully 3D is hated by many headless Catapults.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 April 2013 - 01:24 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I don't get the complaint here. Unlike with how SRMs were, AC 20s actually weigh a lot, take effort to aim, and have low ammo per ton. But they also don't do squat past 300m. It's funny to see one thread complaining about Tourmaline, and another complaining about AC 20 builds, a gun that's largely useless on Tourmaline. Hey, I got an idea. Why don't you just "not" go through the tunnels? If you have a long range build, why don't you use it for long range instead?

[Joseph Mallan]

Because of double armor a dual weapon in the MMO equals the hitting power of a single weapon TT. It takes twice as much gun to do the equivalent armor damage per salvo. This is what a AC20 is supposed to hit like! It is a Mech wrecking Hammer of Pain. That we need two of them to get this level of effect makes me sad.

6 PPC Stalkers... That is how hard 3 PPCs are supposed to hit you. The Awesome is supposed to be that painful with 3 PPCs.

[jay35]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 April 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Because of double armor a dual weapon in the MMO equals the hitting power of a single weapon TT. It takes twice as much gun to do the equivalent armor damage per salvo. This is what a AC20 is supposed to hit like! It is a Mech wrecking Hammer of Pain. That we need two of them to get this level of effect makes me sad.

6 PPC Stalkers... That is how hard 3 PPCs are supposed to hit you. The Awesome is supposed to be that painful with 3 PPCs.

Key word "TT". This isn't TT, this is a realtime FPS game and needs that doubled armor in order to make it even remotely enjoyable. In tabletop, we don't leave our mech hiding behind a rock the entire round in order for it to last more than one salvo, and we shouldn't be doing that in real-time either. We also control more than one mech in TT, and there are other differences as well. So while you may be correct about the equivalency, the AC40 Jager also demonstrates why that doubled armor value is necessary.

Edited by jay35, 01 April 2013 - 04:43 AM.