143 replies to this topic

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Astroniomix, on 25 March 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Jagers can go faster.

Jagers are fragile with that XL engine and they can't strip armor from the arms like the boomcat can.

[liku]

MadPanda, on 25 March 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

This thread has inspired me to record a video about the ac40 jager. Expect it soon.

I can't wait to see it!

MadPanda, on 25 March 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Wot? First of all they are Heavy class, not medium or assault. Secondly, putting XL engine on a stalker who has the biggest and easiest to hit side torso, "helped" you against them? Yeah I don't think so. And "nearly coring" a mech is same as nearly getting a phone number; you got squad.

thanks, corrected
I disagree, while i can sport 6 LPL alpha two time without coolan or do 18 shots in less than 20 sec rollingat 63.9kph and such a lovely heat efficiency
The note about the XL saved me was ironical
Nearly coring a mech is good for the team, if i know i will die too soon and will only at best finish one, i prefere to badly wound 4 while exposing my self less and assuring my team the kill ( 4 assists !! )

Sears, on 25 March 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

They're heavies, not assaults. But yeah they're good at what they do. A bit weak with XLs. I generally go for their shoulders to take them down. A lot of people stack ammo in the legs. Bit of a gamble though as you can't guarantee that. I've blown off a leg or two and the ammo didn't cook, whereupon I would.

thanks, corrected

Unluckyly, many of the one i encountered werent using XL (alas, i soon as i blew one of their side torso.... that wasn't enough [not the tire] ) And why so few people put the ammo in the legs these days...


By the way this is again not a tread to whine about them, i love them... but with 60 Alpha... i really really should do better cooking £

[FerretGR]

Voidcrafter, on 25 March 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

The same issue as boating - ppl don't use their imagination but what's the most effective build.

I did use my imagination... as soon as I knew this mech was being put in the game, I imagined myself running around with dual AC20s. Who are you to tell me that my dream lacks imagination just because a bunch of other people imagined the same thing?

I see no issue here other than folks who can't handle the mechs they're seeing on the field. This build is severely range-limited... learn to deal with it.

What's that? You're range-limited too? You can't get close enough in your Splatcat? Indeed.

Edited by FerretGR, 25 March 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[liku]

Rippthrough, on 25 March 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

If they're all in the cave, leave them there to fester in the dark. It's not rocket science.

but i love to hunt in the cave.. especialy with some lovely DDC rats hunter

[StainlessSR]

Jagers are great Guass, they lose to the armor of the K2 for ac20 even if it is slow due to standard engine IMHO.

[Voidcrafter]

MustrumRidcully, on 25 March 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

How would imagination work. "Oh, let's say if I can put in an AC/5, an AC/2, 1 SRM4, 1 STreak 2, 1 Medium Pulse Laser and 1 Small Laser" on this mech? Is that "imaginative" and something that we need to encourage?

People use their "imagination" to find out something that works well. The better the game is designed, the more options there are for making "good" builds.

if the best use of the Jagermech is a Dual AC/20 build, rebalance the game so there's more than this build that's competitive.
(And I am not even sure this is the best use of the Jagermech. But damnit, I sure want to try it some time.)

Well for example...
You could try 1xLRM15, 1xSRM4, 2xSRM6 + LBX10, and still go with about 82 with the speed tweak, with FULL armor on everything exept the legs, or the same with 2 med lasers as defensive weapon, dropping some armor or engine or ammo.
Or 2xUAC5s(or AC5s if you like them more, AC10s too actually) 2xSRM6s 2xMed. Laser, giving you variety of ranges you're good at.
But that's for the A model.
Gauss and 3xAC2s(or 2 of them with some lasers)?
Imagination, friend
Those builds work very well if you're fighting on your terms.
Oh not to forget - 4xSRM6, 1xLBX10, 2xMed Lasers.
All those go with about 82 speed with the tweak.

Edited by Voidcrafter, 25 March 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Narcisoldier, on 25 March 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Jagers are fragile with that XL engine and they can't strip armor from the arms like the boomcat can.

But they are faster, and they carry 2 AC/20s, at a neatly high position.

And they are the new kid on the block.

Let's talk about the OPness or prevalance of Jagermechs in another two weeks.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 25 March 2013 - 07:04 AM.

[Paula Fry]

[liku]

So i updated the first page, please don't turn this about a whine/balance cry feast, i really like dealing with this new mech and wanted to share some thinking of mine, and i really think they behave like rats, rolling stones rats'rocks!

If you want you can share your tips and trick to deal with them, i dont know this chassis, was out of the game for like 10 days... ( i a cave with no internet and no rats )

MustrumRidcully, on 25 March 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

But they are faster, and they carry 2 AC/20s, at a neatly high position.

And they are the new kid on the block.

Let's NOT talk HERE about the OPness or prevalance of Jagermechs in another two weeks.

please dont, and not here, this lovely isnt about whinning, please read again first page and stay on topic

[PaintedWolf]

Quote

They did nothing to the ac/20. What would you have PGI do? Increase SRM damage? Then the splatcat comes back. Nerf AC/20? Then the gauss cat comes back. Unless all weapons do the same alpha and the same DPS, produce the same heat and all weigh the same, there is always going to be a *best* weapon and we're all just going to have to live with that.

This is not the battletech RP you want it to be; it's a competitive shooter. Suck it up, buttercup.

[GODzillaGSPB]

There is yet one difference to rats I guess. Rats are quite clever creatures, while the ac40-Jagermech isn't. And that's not meant as an insult, it's merely a general statement:

The less weapon groups, the easier to use the mech. I too get worse when I hit the fourth weapon group. I like to keep it at three if possible and can handle that well enough. The YLW has two and I really like it's simplicity. And with just one weapon group...almost a no-brainer.

.

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 25 March 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Shumabot]

Just shoot the ears.

[PaintedWolf]

So I talked to one of the more prolific "Boating is OP" posters, and basically to fix the problem he/she suggested the following:

1- We have to get rid of double armor

2- Remove weapon convergence

3- Re-Adjust the Heat Scale

4- Nerf several weapons: SRMs, LRMs, MLs, PPCs and Gauss

5- Re-Make the Hardpoint system

6- Just for kicks, nerf ECM

Some very modest proposals.

Almost forgot: Change firing rates.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 25 March 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

MustrumRidcully, on 25 March 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

But they are faster, and they care 2 AC/20s, at a neatly high position.

The problem with the AC/20 Jager is that you're bringing a brawler weapon in a non-brawler mech. The high arms are good for sniping, but your ac/20s are not good for sniping. Also, unlike the Catapult, the Jager has easy to hit side torsos and with that XL engine, you lose one of those, you're going down. And the speed advantage you get in exchange for all that fragility is only 10kph.

[Shumabot]

Narcisoldier, on 25 March 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

The problem with the AC/20 Jager is that you're bringing a brawler weapon in a non-brawler mech. The high arms are good for sniping, but your ac/20s are not good for sniping. Also, unlike the Catapult, the Jager has easy to hit side torsos and with that XL engine, you lose one of those, you're going down. And the speed advantage you get in exchange for all that fragility is only 10kph.

It has drawbacks, but the ac40 jager is a top tier mech in the current meta. Post SRM nerf its the games premiere non assault brawler and it's by far the best jager build. It's not really OP though, it's not nearly at splat cat levels. It's hardly game breaking.

[Roadbuster]

sC4r, on 25 March 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

get target info gathering module (helps a lot to identify cheezy builds) target them at range... get info
is it ac20?
yes? engage at long range
no? kill it with any means possible

same works with lrm/ppc heavy lance... get the info and deal with it

that thing that... hmmm this match lets all go blindly left rarely works... scout stuff first or make someone scout

NOOOOOO!
You said "s" word. Light mechs not like "s" word.
Light mechs not scout but brawl, brawl you know?

Honestly, I'd love if light mechs would do their job instead of playing "run around the Atlas".

On topic: I hate any type of boating. The sad thing is that you're not as effective (by far) if you run a loadout with a wider variation of weapons. Not to mention that it's alot harder to play with 5 different weapon systems compared to 1 or 2.

[Takony]

AC/40 Jagers are not a real surprise: all missiles are nerfed hard, including the SRM-s that were used extensively for brawling (HBK-SP, CN9-A, Splatcats, 3xSRM6/4 Atlai, C4 SRM Cats, Trebuchet, SRM Stalker, SRM Awesomes, etc), and given the way lasers work in this game (have to hold them on target to deal full damage, not exactly bursty), so if one wants to be effective in PVP, one looks for the highest pinpoint burst damage possible in the current meta-game.
The obvious choices are the largest ballistics or PPC-s, so now the battlefield is swarmed by AC20 and PPC/Gauss mechs. LBX-10 still underwhelming.

Many mechs also have only energy and missile hardpoints, which at this moment until the missiles are tuned again, limits their efficiency, unless they can field a LOT of lasers, while keeping cool.

Damage over time (UAC-5, lasers) is risky/riskier, since it increases the exposure of the mech and/or the time while one could avoid/spread damage by hiding/torso-twisting.

Unimaginative? Well, as long as burst damage is king, you will build your mechs around the same working weapon configurations, yes, while trying to discover more viable builds.

So yes, we have to adapt and reconfigure the loadouts again, as always, until the meta-game changes again.

[Dishevel]

MadPanda, on 25 March 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Wot? First of all they are Heavy class, not medium or assault. Secondly, putting XL engine on a stalker who has the biggest and easiest to hit side torso, "helped" you against them? Yeah I don't think so. And "nearly coring" a mech is same as nearly getting a phone number; you got squad.

MadPanda be Mad?

You enter a tunnel with 12 AC/20s pointed at you and see how many kills you come out with.
How about you take a chill pill and relax.
The OP faced with 6 mechs with dual AC/20s was able to dish out a lot of damage before going down.
If you turn and run against that you are going down faster and doing nothing.
He heavily damage 2 mechs which probably saved a life or two on his team.
While you jump on the forum and tear him a new from you uber, awesome mech pilot pedestal.
Learn, then speak. It will save you some embarrassment.

[MadPanda]

Dishevel, on 25 March 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

MadPanda be Mad?

You enter a tunnel with 12 AC/20s pointed at you and see how many kills you come out with.
How about you take a chill pill and relax.
The OP faced with 6 mechs with dual AC/20s was able to dish out a lot of damage before going down.
If you turn and run against that you are going down faster and doing nothing.
He heavily damage 2 mechs which probably saved a life or two on his team.
While you jump on the forum and tear him a new from you uber, awesome mech pilot pedestal.
Learn, then speak. It will save you some embarrassment.

Wot? Reading a bit too much into my post, are we? Looks like you are bouncing your own aggressive feelings off my post. Calm down before you decide to post.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

AC20 Jager is the new AC20 Catapult and so now we must have a cry from some who want to nerf another weapon so they can stand to play. (Not saying OP is crying, just saying people will)

PGI will only listen to the cry babies and so this will get a nerf.