162 replies to this topic

[Lukoi Banacek]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

The current core playerbase? Perhaps not. The future playerbase? Herein lies the difficulty. I do not know the extent to which you have attempted to market the game to others, so I will not comment in that regard. I have been quite avid in trying to 'sell' this game to others and have met with very little success, even among those with whom I play Battletech.. hell, some of them even play the Mechwarrior/CBT RPG. The most common reservations I see/hear? The fact that you have to slowly grind into the game via a trial because the developer (or perhaps more accurately the publisher) would much rather you give up and pay them, and that if you do give up and pay them to more adequately enjoy the game the game itself is flawed in numerous ways and the attitude towards such is "It's a beta, you knew that when you paid."

If nothing else, as both a beta and a niche game trying to find more customers, you'd think they'd at least make the product a bit easier to get into (and dare I say more beta-like?) and be less obviously focused on trying to sell testers a product with obvious issues the moment they hit the door.

PGI isn't doing much to market the game because they consider it beta. When I use social media/internet I see the banners everywhere.

When any of my friends, not involved in MWO get on their social media, even tho many are rampant PC and console gamer hounds, they see no mention of the game anywhere. Because PGI isn't full court pressing the marketing yet. Why? I bet because they consider it a beta.

So, it doesn't honestly matter to them whether you and I promote their game outside of the good word of mouth they get from it....because until they "open" it, they probably aren't going to go into full marketing mode to attain what they consider their initial numbers for a final playerbase.

[PANZERBUNNY]

It matters because certain dislillusioned people use it as a fall back plan in arguments pertaining to the current state of the game.

[Aesthetech]

Jetfire, on 26 March 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Not even remotely viable, if production stopped today the game would be dead in a few months. Everyone who is paying is paying on the promise of what is to come, not what is in it now.

Legally, you're paying for what the game is now and hoping that you get what is promised to come, and not being guaranteed it in any way.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Lukoi, on 26 March 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

PGI isn't doing much to market the game because they consider it beta. When I use social media/internet I see the banners everywhere.

When any of my friends, not involved in MWO get on their social media, even tho many are rampant PC and console gamer hounds, they see no mention of the game anywhere. Because PGI isn't full court pressing the marketing yet. Why? I bet because they consider it a beta.

So, it doesn't honestly matter to them whether you and I promote their game outside of the good word of mouth they get from it....because until they "open" it, they probably aren't going to go into full marketing mode to attain what they consider their initial numbers for a final playerbase.

You're right. The game needs atleats 3PV and some more consumables before they are ready.

[Mercules]

PANZERBUNNY, on 26 March 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Did I say I expect a full game for it not to be Beta?

Why do you expect a full game for it to be economically viable?

Just going on their words mandingo.

Also, one of my posts is gone that didn't infringe on forums rules.

Certain NKVD must be awake and feasting on cheetos.

I wish there would be information in your profile detailing which mod has been deleting your posts. Would promote some accountability.

I think what you are failing to understand is that, "This is a Beta." doesn't send the, "So I can be sloppy and not code it right." message you imply it is sending but instead, "Hey guys, we know this doesn't work, but I told you it is a Beta so you know it is likely to change, right?" That is why when we get the 10th post in a week that says, "MGs don't work right!" we go, "We know... it's a Beta... they are working on the balances."

[PANZERBUNNY]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Legally, you're paying for what the game is now and hoping that you get what is promised to come, and not being guaranteed it in any way.

I'm pretty sure when people buy camo, they are buying camo and not fake promises. Also pretty sure when people buy a mech, they are buying access to that product.

The founders program could be considered a "purchase of promise", now people are buying into a product and brand that has come a long way, but letting oneself get caught in the "beta" snare as an excuse is folly.

[Roadbeer]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Legally, you're paying for what the game is now and hoping that you get what is promised to come, and not being guaranteed it in any way.

Completely untrue.

You are investing in the development of the game, and for your investment, you are given bling. Much more than I was given for my investments in ENRON.

Edited by Roadbeer, 26 March 2013 - 09:56 AM.

[Tennex]

Mercules, on 26 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

I think what you are failing to understand is that, "This is a Beta." doesn't send the, "So I can be sloppy and not code it right." message you imply it is sending but instead, "Hey guys, we know this doesn't work, but I told you it is a Beta so you know it is likely to change, right?" That is why when we get the 10th post in a week that says, "MGs don't work right!" we go, "We know... it's a Beta... they are working on the balances."

I think there are some misconceptions about F2P games

if you've ever played any "fully released" F2P game you'd know thats not true. A significant amount of changes goes through in weekly patches even after release.

Especially balance changes.


the people calling this game a beta, are not satisfied with the game. How do i know? because they use beta as an excuse. if they didn't call this game a beta, MWO would be unsatisfactory in their own eyes.

But instead of making excuses, we should face facts and go from there.

Edited by Tennex, 26 March 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[verybad]

and it matters whether or not it's called a beta how?

F2P games are continuously altered as the only way to make money on them is by selling new conent. They're essentially in beta until they stop supporting it.

[Mercules]

PANZERBUNNY, on 26 March 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

It matters because certain dislillusioned people use it as a fall back plan in arguments pertaining to the current state of the game.

Yes, but 90% of those people are using it appropriately.

"There aren't enough mechs!" - It's a Beta.
"There aren't enough maps!" - It's a Beta.
"This weapon doesn't seem balanced against this one." - It's a Beta.
"My mommy was mean to me and I feel the need to take it out on my fellow gamers." - It's a B... oh wait...

[PANZERBUNNY]

Mercules, on 26 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

I think what you are failing to understand is that, "This is a Beta." doesn't send the, "So I can be sloppy and not code it right." message you imply it is sending but instead, "Hey guys, we know this doesn't work, but I told you it is a Beta so you know it is likely to change, right?" That is why when we get the 10th post in a week that says, "MGs don't work right!" we go, "We know... it's a Beta... they are working on the balances."

They use it as a means to hammer items onto our screen that seem to be improperly tested. Sure, crap will happen, but we're seeing things that should most certainly be caught in whatever hamster internal testing occurs.

Will this behaviour continue after the holy beta tag is lifted?

Will people find another excuse why they should defend PGI from gathering torches in the absence of holy beta tag?

Well, we'll see. I'm betting on yes.

[Aesthetech]

Lukoi, on 26 March 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

PGI isn't doing much to market the game because they consider it beta. When I use social media/internet I see the banners everywhere.

When any of my friends, not involved in MWO get on their social media, even tho many are rampant PC and console gamer hounds, they see no mention of the game anywhere. Because PGI isn't full court pressing the marketing yet. Why? I bet because they consider it a beta.

So, it doesn't honestly matter to them whether you and I promote their game outside of the good word of mouth they get from it....because until they "open" it, they probably aren't going to go into full marketing mode to attain what they consider their initial numbers for a final playerbase.

This is going to come down purely to a matter of opinion and speculation, but I think they're not doing much to market the game because they don't have the investment/funding to do so for a niche product and are relying on word of mouth. The resources aren't there, else they would be as much as a number of other "in development" online games with pay features are at the moment.

Karl Split, on 26 March 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Does it really matter as long as they keep fixing bugs and adding new content OP? It's just a name, even if the name doesnt make as much sense anymore

Insofar as attracting (and more importantly keeping) new players to this game goes, yes, in my experience, it matters a lot.

Edited by Aposiopesis, 26 March 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Mercules, on 26 March 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Yes, but 90% of those people are using it appropriately.

"There aren't enough mechs!" - It's a Beta.
"There aren't enough maps!" - It's a Beta.
"This weapon doesn't seem balanced against this one." - It's a Beta.
"My mommy was mean to me and I feel the need to take it out on my fellow gamers." - It's a B... oh wait...

There are more than enough mechs now...compared to closed beta.
There are more than enough maps now...compared to closed beta.
The weapons are more balanced now...than closed beta.

They detailed what they thought would be a minimum viable product to launch and they have achieved that. They started their economic model and it isn't built on the dreams and wishes of the consumers.

People are buying into this game beyond "investing in the future".

Hopefully they'll ditch the crutch when CW is released, but I think we can all agree that once Clans roll around, Beta should be a thing of the past.

They could technically sit in Beta for the next 8 years because of the constant changes needed.

[Roadbeer]

So, if this isn't BETA, the game is mostly complete, and they're just keeping the BETA tag to avoid having to advertise their crappy game and keep them safe from full reviews...

Which patch did I miss where Community Warfare was launched?

I'm not getting my memos

[Jetfire]

mania3c, on 26 March 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Maybe..but game has already a value.. I played hundreds of matches and had fun.. So I invested money for fun I already had..what about you..you are funder.. so you think you money wasn't worth it already ? If now..so just wait..I don't know if they ever promised exact date, when game will be complete as they promised..but anyway..every crowd funding system works on promises..PGI went a bit further and allowed everyone to try it, check it and play it..and give something for money invested.. they are really evil..

I am all for PGI monetizing development... I mean I funded them a lot, I funded Star Citizen a lot. It allows games that wouldn't get the time of day from big publishers to get to exist. I have had a lot of fun playing what is there... but the fact is it could not stay alive if it stagnated or fails to deliver CW and Lobby functions this year.

The current product is not viable from a business perspective and would not attract much income without the future promise it holds.

[Lukoi Banacek]

PANZERBUNNY, on 26 March 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

It matters because certain dislillusioned people use it as a fall back plan in arguments pertaining to the current state of the game.

Whether folks consider it a beta or not, whether they "argue about the state of the game" or not...none of it matters. They have their time table. We're here to test it. I'd rather debate and offer feedback on what keeps it immersive, keeps it balanced and most importantly keeps it fun...because ultimately, they don't care if you don't consider it a beta. It doesn't impact their decision making on how they are developing and will eventually market the game.

It's arguing about something that ultimately will not impact the game's release.

[Aesthetech]

PANZERBUNNY, on 26 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure when people buy camo, they are buying camo and not fake promises. Also pretty sure when people buy a mech, they are buying access to that product.

Exactly, yes, I do not disagree.

Quote

The founders program could be considered a "purchase of promise", now people are buying into a product and brand that has come a long way, but letting oneself get caught in the "beta" snare as an excuse is folly.

Actually, when buying the Founders program it was very clear what you got:

Immediate access to closed beta.
Some doodads
MC
More doodads
Stuff

Anything past that point is hope, but you aren't buying hope. You can attach hope to it if you want. What you are actually getting for your $ is what was defined on the sales page.

Roadbeer, on 26 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

Completely untrue.

You are investing in the development of the game, and for your investment, you are given bling. Much more than I was given for my investments in ENRON.

Incorrect. You are simply buying a feature. Whether there is any investment into the development in the game or not is at the discretion of the publisher/developer. The $50 you spend on camo could be put into the development of the game or it could be put into a pair of new tennis shoes. As the end user buying a product, you have no say on how/where/if that money is invested unless the terms explicitly state so. We have indications that the money you spend may or may not go towards the development of the game, which is a far cry from a legal guarantee that it will. Buying camo is much different than investing in ENRON.

Edited by Aposiopesis, 26 March 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[Colaessus]

Not Beta you say, so you suggest its a full game now. . . . Funny, they only have 1/3 of the games content out.
Seems like a Beta to me.

[Tennex]

Mercules, on 26 March 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Yes, but 90% of those people are using it appropriately.

"There aren't enough mechs!" - It's a Beta.
"There aren't enough maps!" - It's a Beta.
"This weapon doesn't seem balanced against this one." - It's a Beta.

Or if we don't want to be escapist.
simply

There arn't enough mechs
There arn't enough maps
We need more balance

get to work.


because i don't see how saying its a beta changes any of those facts. It definately doesnt make it go away. it doesn't make the devs work harder or content come out faster. It just makes us feel better.

Edited by Tennex, 26 March 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Mercules]

Technically... as long as PGI considers it a Beta... it is Beta. They are the people coding it and the end user doesn't get to define when the code is complete enough to be considered Released. PGI gets to say, "Our code is out of the Beta stage." not us.

Tennex, on 26 March 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Or if we don't want to be escapist.
simply

There arn't enough mechs
There arn't enough maps
We need more balance

get to work.

They are working... on their Beta.