BattleMechs vs OmniMechs and MW: Online
#61
Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:21 AM
#62
Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:41 AM
Omnimechs would have say up to 5 preset loadouts which can be selected when the actual map is known. Again this would fit canon.
Second line (II C) mechs would be the same as IS mechs.
This is all that the devs need to have in place at the start, so that people get used to playing that way. Anything else concerning the Clans can be sorted out by the devs in the time between launch and the invasion.
Whatever happens, I will be playing IS, so no advantage for me.
#63
Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:53 AM
Instead of an Omni Mech, you might as well maintain 2+ Standard Mechs covering several roles and forego otherwise expensive modifications altogether (for standard BattleMechs that is).
#64
Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:56 PM
Kartr, Zso Sahal, GET ROOM!
#65
Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:16 PM
#66
Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:26 PM
Nik Van Rhijn, on 04 June 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:
Afraid not, BattleMechs were not modified based on which planet you were going to be operating on. Partially because modifying BattleMechs is such a difficult and time consuming process, partially because having multiple different configurations means you have to copy your logistics train for every extra configuration you add and finally because planets are not one single biome environments the way SciFi often makes it seem. How would you customize a BattleMech if you were coming here to Earth to fight? You couldn't really, because you could end up fighting in arctic regions, jungles, deserts, savannas, temperate climes, etc.
This idea that BattleMechs can be optimized based on which planet they're going to be fighting on is ludicrious and needs to go away. One cannot optimize their 'Mech for an entire planet, only for the conditions of where on that planet they'll be fighting. That is why the OmniMech is such a good machine, it can let you change configurations in just a few hours so that you can go from fighting in the jungle to fighting in the arctic. BTW not picking on you Nik, its a common mistake that is reinforced by Star Wars, Star Trek and pretty much every SciFi show that has ever existed.
Nik Van Rhijn, on 04 June 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:
Second line (II C) mechs would be the same as IS mechs.
This is all that the devs need to have in place at the start, so that people get used to playing that way. Anything else concerning the Clans can be sorted out by the devs in the time between launch and the invasion.
Whatever happens, I will be playing IS, so no advantage for me.
Pretty much what I was thinking Nik, and you're absolutely right the devs need to decide how they're dealing with OmniMechs now so that we can get used to how BattleMechs are going to work. It would be a horrible idea for them to suddenly change the way BattleMechs worked after a year or more of their players getting used to a certain system.
CCC Dober, on 04 June 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:
Sarna.net said:
CCC Dober, on 04 June 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:
Instead of an Omni Mech, you might as well maintain 2+ Standard Mechs covering several roles and forego otherwise expensive modifications altogether (for standard BattleMechs that is).
No OmniMechs are not designed to reduce costs, they are actually significantly more expensive than BattleMechs and that is why the Clans still use BattleMechs. OmniMechs are significantly more expensive due to their added complexity and the materials you need to make them, however their ability to be optimized for the next mission/environment and the ease with which they can be repaired makes that cost worthwhile. However the cost is still so much that only frontline units are given access to it and second line units use the much less expensive, but less flexible BattleMech.
Edited by Kartr, 04 June 2012 - 06:45 PM.
#67
Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:31 AM
Now my theory is that the Omni Mech became the logical conclusion of that idea, not a byproduct or evolutionary offspring of BattleMechs in general. Look at the Mech concept and how it works. Instead of building and maintaining several Mechs with fixed, non-interchangable weapons, modules etc. each Omni Mech can easily share parts with the next. This is especially useful when resources are low. As I said already, the Clans always try their hardest to avoid wasting resources. This Omni concept becomes exceedingly more powerful when low resources are not (considered) a problem, as the Mechs can adapt fairly quickly and logistics must only account for spare parts and weapons, instead of whole Mechs to cover several roles.
I'm not really challenging the evolutionary step that OmniMechs represent, but more the steps that led to their creation. They were born out of necessity (lack of resources, easing logistics) not in combat. Standard Mechs that added variants over time and grew increasingly more potent, now they have evolved without a doubt. That's what I'd call evolution. OmniMechs however were born perfect in that sense. Imperial Guard versus Space Marines would be a fitting comparison I think.
Edited by CCC Dober, 05 June 2012 - 11:31 AM.
#68
Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:52 PM
CCC Dober, on 05 June 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:
That's a falsehood the Clans like to proclaim about themselves, "we're less wasteful!" Then why do you allow Trials of any kind? Why do you only do live fire practice instead of simulation? Why do you engage in wasteful combat to acquire new technology instead of using trade or espionage? The Clans have had their own internal wars and are generally quite wasteful.
CCC Dober, on 05 June 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:
Except the evolution is very clear, Mercury has easy to maintain hardpoints, that is evolved into hardpoints that allow quick swaps. This was useful because it gave tactical superiority since the 'Mechs could be customized to fit mission parameters.
Except you can build 2 or 3 BattleMechs for the price of one OmniMech. This gives you more bang for your buck at the cost of flexibility. And the Clans never seem to worry about logistics anyway (one of the reasons their invasion failed) and always conduct live fire exercises, so supplies must not be a big concern for the Clans period. Reinforcing the idea that the OmniMech, a more expensive and resource intensive design, was developed and became widely used because of its tactical flexibility not its (non-existent) logistics advantage.
CCC Dober, on 05 June 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:
Atlas II: 11,198,000 C-Bills
Dire Wolf: 29,350,000 C-Bills
Sarna.net said:
OmniMechs are not cost effective in terms of production when compared to BattleMechs. Their superiority on the battlefield is the only reason they're used. This shoots the notion that the OmniMech was developed to conserve resources out of the water. If they wanted to conserve resources they would use the less resource intensive BattleMechs. OmniMechs have extreme tactical flexibility and that along with being easier to repair are why they were developed.
#69
Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:18 PM
Battlemech = Fixed hardpoint type/loction ; (only a certain type and # of weapons may be used per location on the mech, further limited by the availability of free slots and tonnage.)
Omnimech = No Fixed hardpoint type/location (any given # & type of weapon may be mounted in any position on the mech, the only limiting factors being the availability of free slots and tonnage.)
Clan technology = can be fitted on IS mechs, and vice versa. ( Clan tech is extremely rare and highly expensive on IS markets because it is only acquired from battlefield salvage, is often damaged, and quite difficult to repair in IS Mechworks.)
there is no special "hot swapping" abilities with an Omni.. they are not magical, they are just mechs designed with "universal" weapons mounts.
Edited by Drunken Skull, 03 January 2013 - 08:30 PM.
#70
Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:59 PM
Kartr, on 05 June 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:
The changing of hands of territory within clan space is done through a "trial" consisting of 2 or 3 stars of mechs piloted by the best available in a "competition" between the interested parties eventuating in a winning party and a losing party (who become "bondsmen") All the damage in this confrontation occuring in a pre-designated area to minimise any collateral damage to key infrastructure or populace.
During these trials an auto-eject function is standard and an actual death is rare and seen as a tragic loss of skill by both parties.
Often a takeover within clan territory can occur with little fanfare and no loss of life. No prisoners are taken and no crime is "seen" to have been committed. The losing party become bondsmen ( essentially "changing flags" ) and it is for this reason that most vet clanners have served with many if not all the different clans.
Technology is shared amongst the clans equally and research is undertaken by the scientific caste ( much like FED-COM and STAR-COM in IS space) and is completely unaffected by clan party politics.
now consider what happens when an Inner sphere House decides it would like one of it's neighbours planets...
Edited by Drunken Skull, 03 January 2013 - 07:37 PM.
#71
Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:10 PM
#72
Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:25 PM
For example, you're playing a three round mission list. The first is in the desert, so your Laserboat Hunchy is looking hot in all the wrong ways. If it were a Battlemech (I'm simply using the Hunchback as an example here, as it is not a Omnimech) you would just have to suck it up. However, if it were an Omnimech you could swap it out for, say, a more ballistic oriented format? Furthermore, the next rounds is in the snow, so you'd want to switch back to your laserboat.
I think THAT would be an awesome thing to add, if they ever got to that point.Just my two pences about it though, really.
Interesting discussion OP, by the way!
#73
Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:29 PM
#74
Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:32 PM
Kartr, on 05 June 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:
In the book I read they did not have anything destroyed in a trial- it was done with Mechs but damage was simulated. I think it was for a Bloodname though so internal Clan. Between Clans it is to control warfare- trying to gain the benefits of war without collateral effects to infrastructure or general R&D.
Edited by PaintedWolf, 03 January 2013 - 07:35 PM.
#75
Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:49 PM
OmniMech must be suited perfectly for one single role, it is specialist mech, so when a battle goes not as predicted, omnimechs may found themselves in disadvantage. In oppose, battlemechs may be less specific and so less effective, but can act more roles in case of changeing strategy.
Edited by Sonnemo, 27 December 2013 - 09:51 PM.
#76
Posted 01 January 2014 - 12:10 PM
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