215 replies to this topic

[Lukoi Banacek]

While I accept the fact that there are numerous potential problems with some form of TDM (as there is with both of the other existing modes imo), there are things that can be done to mitigate those potential problems.

So, I prefer more options over less options and would like to see TDM.

To prevent further fracturing of the playerbase, regardless of how many new modes are added and what they are, I'm hopeful that CW will somehow drive the "need" for each of the modes so that player units can successfully take over planets but aren't able to do so at the exclusion of certain modes.

NBT (just one example of many I'm sure) had multiple stages in planetary assaults and raids that necessitated various game modes, tonnage limitations etc and I'm sure PGI can find some meaningful way to incorporate lots of different aspects via the driving force of CW.

[Mercules]

Synra, on 28 March 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

So, I just quit MWO yesterday. I won't bore you with the details of why, but it's a long list of frustrations, mostly problems problems that PGI could have and should have solved by now.

But today I decided to check these forums, and I find this on the dev tracker:



I almost jumped for joy. "OMG finally an end to these horrible base capture mechanics."



"Well, that's a little odd, I wonder what the logic is behind that?"



"That makes sense, the big maps aren't very good, and smaller maps would be a bit more conductive to TDM play."



"Well... yes that's a problem that needs to be solved..."

Clearly at this point Garth is just trolling for some reason, probably not something a PGI rep should be doing. This post honestly got my hopes up for this game, but ultimately just confirmed why I have had it with this game and these developers.

And for the record, you could just reduce the clock to 7 minutes and award victory to the team that's in the lead. Then, a light running away and hiding would not be detrimental.



It really would be. There really are a lot of MWO players out there that are just sick of cheap base cap wins that they can't do anything about.



If you are listening, then make use of this feedback. People have been asking for TDM functionality for a long time now. Is there really any good reason why we can't have it alongside the assault and conquest game modes? How is it productive to deny players a popular request like this? It's not like we are demanding a massive elaborate new game mode. We just want to play a game from time to time without bases.

Called it.... the "Garth said we were getting TDM" rumor should be spreading even now.

[Noobzorz]

Lukoi, on 28 March 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

While I accept the fact that there are numerous potential problems with some form of TDM (as there is with both of the other existing modes imo), there are things that can be done to mitigate those potential problems.

So, I prefer more options over less options and would like to see TDM.

To prevent further fracturing of the playerbase, regardless of how many new modes are added and what they are, I'm hopeful that CW will somehow drive the "need" for each of the modes so that player units can successfully take over planets but aren't able to do so at the exclusion of certain modes.

NBT (just one example of many I'm sure) had multiple stages in planetary assaults and raids that necessitated various game modes, tonnage limitations etc and I'm sure PGI can find some meaningful way to incorporate lots of different aspects via the driving force of CW.

You'll note from my OP that this is also my attitude. We should have TDM. I think what we should really do is that fantastic sounding KOTH slugfest that is basically the exact same thing as TDM (which, honestly, is basically the exact same thing as assault).

The body of my post is relevant to the poll, but indirectly. Every time I read someone complaining about cap warrior online, I can scarcely believe how utterly lacking in self awareness that person is. That they feel persecuted that someone used their light mech to cap the base while they plod around in the middle of nowhere is so stupid it's positively offensive. What do they think happens when those players swap to assaults to play "hug the Atlas?"

Edited by Noobzorz, 28 March 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[Vividos]

1sh0t, on 28 March 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

I'd estimate a good 50% of the matches I've played where capping was the deciding factor it was the team that got wrecked with only 1 or 2 lights left which won the game. So proclaiming "the only time matches are EVER won by capping is when that team has already won" is simply not correct in my experience (unless you were being redundant about the cap being a technical win).

And comparing this game to CS is laughable... CS actually has a real assault mode where one team defends while MWO has what is essentially TDM + base-defense which are horribly incompatible.

Listen TDM haters, obviously a straight up TDM mode would not be ideal. That doesn't mean one couldn't be developed or Assault couldn't be modified to be 100% combat centric. Why would you argue against a game mode which would improve this games potential for success? You know what turns a beginner off? Actually doing well enough to destroy a bunch of the other teams mechs only to lose to a lame solo light cap while you were kicking ***.

Keep fighting improvement and you'll end up watching your game die a slow death.

1) if your estimation says 50% of matches are won by capping then you are terrible at both math and estimating. i've been playing for 8 hours so far today and there have been only one or two (cant recall for sure if there was a second) match won by base capping.

2) comparing to CS is not laughable, actually. if you want to use the objectives as your argument then you shouldnt be arguing for TDM, you should be arguing for MORE objectives than just the base in assault mode. pick 1 argument and stick to it, people will take you more seriously.

3) we're not "TDM haters" we're just people with brains, and we actually use them. TDM is boring, played out, and uninteresting. TDM would lower the number of people in the matchmaking queue. TDM is a basic, non-tactical game mode compared to assault - and this is billed as a tactical team game. there would need to be a REASON to implement it into the game right now as opposed to later down the line and the only reason im seeing you or anyone else post is that you want it. that in itself is not a reason. not one way has been stated in which TDM would enhance the game. and dont give me the "new player" bull, because not once have i ever heard an ACTUAL new player state that reasoning. the number of people requesting it are the MINORITY, and on top of that they're the annoying, whiny minority that dont use facts or logic to present their case.

4) if your team loses to a solo light capping your base, then the problem is not the game mode - THE PROBLEM IS YOUR TEAM AND THE FACT THAT THEY SUCK. when ONE enemy light goes to your base, do you have ANY IDEA how easy it is to stop them? ANY light on your team could go put an end to them. ANY treb or cent on your team could go and stop them. heck even a DRAGON could go and stop them. dont blame the game mode for your (and your teams) lack of cognitive functions.

[Taemien]

I voted no, simply because I believe the current game modes serve as a death match style of play already. Already I can run around a map and kill mechs with my team, and the majority of my games won are through destroying all enemy mechs.

Now I will say this, in MWLL. Between Deathmatch and Terrain Control, I preferred deathmatch. Though that was largely because the game had respawns and base turrets. Fighting automated turrets wasn't fun or even skill based. But when I started playing back in Closed Beta with Assault, it was a vastly superior game mode. You have several tactics you could use at any time or change them depending on what was going on.

Team Death Match in MWO would simply just be Heavy/Assaults and no reason for information warfare or scouting. The only use a scout had in MWLL was to run up passive, narc something, and everyone with LRMs just fired. That was it.

Here in MWO it would just be a fuzzball of Assaults/Heavies vs another fuzzball of Assaults/Heavies. In fact when my team runs mostly assaults and heavies we don't leave the general base area. We let the enemy come to us and just hammer them. We typically don't run this setup often as it does get quite boring.

We find it much more fun to run around in fast lights or mediums, or the occasional 75kph+ heavy and control the map. We'll ping the enemy base if we feel they are fuzzballed up in a defensible position to draw some of them out and then hammer them while the rest of the team cleans up.

Some thing that is a dishonorable tactic. I could see that being true when they are running 32kph assaults. Should have brought something a little swifter. But I always see outsmarting the enemy rather than bulldozing them to be more entertaining.

[Jman5]

Quote

It really would be. There really are a lot of MWO players out there that are just sick of cheap base cap wins that they can't do anything about.

I'm going to be blunt. If you can't stop your opponents from base capping you with at least some regularity, you are bad at this game. Everyone gets capped from time to time, but to say you can't do anything about it? **** you. You fail at map awareness, communication, teamwork, positioning, and/or scouting. There is no beating around the bushes here. The maps we have now are by in large easy to scout and it takes very little effort to keep your eyes open for base rushes. The thermal vision we have now gives you the ability to see any mech from 2,000 meters without breaking a sweat. I do this consistently in my slow as mollassas atlas when I play lone wolf. So don't give me this "im in an assault therefore I've lost the ability to use my eyes and legs."

You're bad and you should feel bad.

[Training Instructor]

Garth Erlam, on 28 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

We'll add TDM, but it'll have to be 4v4, but it'll only use small maps, and also we'll add a bunch of options to either insta-kill the last surviving member of a team that hides or maybe highlight them so everyone can kill them because TDM is clearly superior to Assault.

(Yes we do listen, and if you can't take some jokes you need to relax; don't do it, when you wanna go to it.)

You could be a failed standup comedian in another life. Either answer seriously or just don't answer.

[Taemien]

Training Instructor, on 28 March 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

You could be a failed standup comedian in another life. Either answer seriously or just don't answer.

Its his forums. He can say what he wants. If you don't like it, there's other places to go on the internet and other games to play.

[Noobzorz]

Training Instructor, on 28 March 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

You could be a failed standup comedian in another life. Either answer seriously or just don't answer.

It was a serious answer. That mode sounds awesome. Quick and dirty deathmatch with no stalemates. That last sentence is a little tongue in cheek comment about how ******* stupid the most vocal people calling for TDM are. And honestly, the level of dev engagement with players is VERY high here. It's just the team is still too small to progress at the rate we'd prefer.

[Pater Mors]

Poll should be called "Do you want a 'find-the-shutdown-mech-for-the-last-10-minutes-of-the-match' mode."

No please.

[Teralitha]

Jman5, on 28 March 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Team Death Match just wouldn't work as a proper game mode if you simply removed the bases and sent it off. While I think there are possible solutions out there as some posters here have mentioned, they all require a massive amount of work. I don't think some of you realize just how much effort would need to go into programming the fixes that would be required to make it a functional gamemode.

So you want the developers to spend weeks if not months creating a new gamemode with a number of completely new features. You want them to do all this just because you and your team can't be bothered to scout?

Uh... what does scouting or not have anything to do with it. Thats just a jib on some imaginary group of players.

[Teralitha]

CapperDeluxe, on 28 March 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

otherwise the team and class based nature of the game favors scenario/objective styles to ensure it doesn't get stale.

Its not working. If anything it promotes boredom/staleness.

[Teralitha]

darkfall13, on 28 March 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Voted no (for now, I'm with OP, sure it will be fine down the road, but the current environment of MWO doesn't mesh well with TDM) TDM is not an end all be all, while the arguments that more modes is better, who says it has to be TDM? This crowd acts like it's the only possible mode left on the planet for PGI to implement.

Unrelated: I'm seeing a nice sprinkling of "Removed directed language" from mods, what's that one?

I would like to see the MW4 mission play mode in here also. Very popular back then.

kiltymonroe, on 28 March 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

A good OP that identifies all the problems that TDM would have.

Its strange... all the TDM supporters know about these 'problems' and yet... they still vote yes. Isnt that odd? They must actually like playing that way, ya think?

Why do you guys still want to play assault with all its flaws? Because you like it right? wow... better put your sunglasses on.... that bright light can hurt your eyes after being in the dark so long.

Edited by Teralitha, 28 March 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[Teralitha]

Noobzorz, on 28 March 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

I think you might need to make sure you read the right poll. Or, perhaps you could explain to me how yes/no/abstain is biased?

Unless you mean in the pure statistical sense? Because then we'd need to know something about the population moments of the entire player base to know if it was. But I added that rhetorically, because you obviously didn't, and your post was dumb.

Trolling anyone who doesnt agree with you I see... Oh snap!

[Major Derps]

I said no, however, I believe it could have a place being somehow implemented when solaris is introduced.

[Synra]

Noobzorz, on 28 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

I don't know what else to say about this then to accuse you of being stupid.

Get over yourself.

Wow, seriously? I was posting honest, non-angry feedback in favor of a game mode I would like to see, and you write like 4 paragraphs of simply insulting and bashing me baslessly.

FYI, the last two mechs I piloted have been Spiders and Jagermechs, in which case I spent the time to master all six of those variants. On top of that, I have been playing since June last year and have invested time learning to pilot nearly every mech available to date. And even then, I can't recall the last time I was using "the biggest mech I could find".

Quote

I guess the message is ask sensibly. Because when I read your post, I wish you were being honest about quitting yesterday instead of making it up as a rhetorical point.

Once again, you are making some pretty extreme assumptions about me. You haven't just put your foot in your mouth, you've managed to swallow your entire leg.

I did quit. Not a joke. I finished mastering my Jagermechs and called it done. I have played this game for a long time now, and I am quite good at it. But as I said, I have a long list of frustrations with this game, most of which are simply bugs that just aren't getting fixed. So I am going to move on to other games. Maybe I will come back and play MWO some more someday, but for now I have done enough with this game, and I have coped with it's problems for long enough.

As for you; chill out a little. You are passionate about the game, and so am I. But there is no reason to flip out and attack others like you are doing here. Everyone is entitled to make feedback and requests here.

Edited by Synra, 28 March 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[hashinshin]

Wanted to see "would I care if other people got it" option.

And I wouldn't.

But I also think it would detract from the "feeling" of the game.

[Teralitha]

Noobzorz, on 28 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

[/size]

No. He's being entirely candid I think. That sounds like a good mode. I would play it. He is, however, not drinking the TDM-is-better-because-im-a-dinosaur-from-1960-and-I-deserve-to-win koolaid. This, for example, is textbook WAHH WAHHH FIX THE GAME SO I WIN:

[/size]

I don't know what else to say about this then to accuse you of being stupid. You mean you took the biggest heaviest mech possible, a mech with literally no drawbacks of any kind in a brawl/sniper environment, and you have the ******* nerve to accuse people of playing light mechs cheap because they choose not to let you SRM/AC20 them?

Get over yourself. You will eventually have this same pathetic hissy fit with every game you play if that's the kind of BS entitled noob attitude you take. Defend your ******* base, attack theirs, control some space, and stop whining and crying about something that is so unbelievably ancillary.

Edit: Let me be clear. I'd like TDM in the game. I made that clear in the OP. It'd get you moronic scrubs out of the other modes and into your big clang-a-rang ***********, and it would get the sensible people who just want some TDM the game mode they'd like most (even though assault is basically exactly that). It would provide some entertainment for me. Everyone wins.

But it is difficult to empathize with you because, collectively, you are just such a bunch of entitled morons. I think that if you just said "assault is too complex, give me some old fashioned TDM," you'd get a lot more support from people. As it is, I think people begin to see it less about TDM and more about giving the really loud, stupid folks something they want, and they fall into the trap of wanting to deny it to you because you've made them hate you.

I guess the message is ask sensibly. Because when I read your post, I wish you were being honest about quitting yesterday instead of making it up as a rhetorical point.

Is this all you can do is troll people who dont have the same opinion? You should go hang your head in shame for wasting everyone's time reading this topic. its just as I thought, and alot of your posts are the same way. You created this poll for one purpose. To troll. I gave you 10000 troll points already, but I think you deserve a few more.

Edited by Teralitha, 28 March 2013 - 04:10 PM.

[Teralitha]

Noobzorz, on 28 March 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

It was a serious answer. That mode sounds awesome. Quick and dirty deathmatch with no stalemates. That last sentence is a little tongue in cheek comment about how ******* stupid the most vocal people calling for TDM are. And honestly, the level of dev engagement with players is VERY high here. It's just the team is still too small to progress at the rate we'd prefer.

Whether his post was serious or not, that is not the TDM we are asking for. A quick and dirty slugfest is more like assault mode and even more redundant. But Im sure some players might like it. That would be more like an "Instant Action" game mode. or probably closer to mech assault.

Edited by Teralitha, 28 March 2013 - 04:15 PM.

[DrSecretStache]

Teralitha, on 28 March 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Is this all you can do is troll people who dont have the same opinion? You should go hang your head in shame for wasting everyone's time reading this topic. its just as I thought, and alot of your posts are the same way. You created this poll for one purpose. To troll. I gave you 10000 troll points already, but I think you deserve a few more.

The poll isn't biased. His comments don't inherently affect the poll. If they do, then I have lost faith in the forum warriors.

The reality of it is that TDM does not belong in the queues. It is not a new player friendly. The only fair way to keep the light v assault situation from happening is by adding an objective, which is, in effect, not TDM.

And neither does TDM belong in CW. It doesn't go along with the idea of there being a point to the battles... as the supporters have said, TDM is about big stompy mechs fighting big stompy mechs.

It DOES have a place in a private lobby system. As there, groups that don't intend to troll can take full advantage of the mode. However, we don't have a private lobby system.

Voted no. There's better modes to add to the game. KOTH, CTF, and Attack/defend being among them.

If you don't want to be ninja capped, leave a mech behind to defend the cap. They are leaving a mech out of the fight, so it shouldn't matter that you are too.