101 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

PREMADES ATE MY BABY

Edited by Roadbeer, 29 March 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[N0V0CAIN]

Do you know who never complains about base capping? People who play defense.

[Ransack]

Get a nice yummy bonus for killing a mech on your base too

[Tatula]

I just want to point out that when PUG'ing, you can't ensure that your team have something fast enough to run back to defend the base, especially on a big map.

[Mercules]

Aloha, on 29 March 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

I just want to point out that when PUG'ing, you can't ensure that your team have something fast enough to run back to defend the base, especially on a big map.

Which means only that you should check your team composition at the beginning and plan accordingly. It also means the elo system is screwing you.

[Tatula]

Mercules, on 29 March 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Which means only that you should check your team composition at the beginning and plan accordingly. It also means the elo system is screwing you.

LOL... I already know the ELO system is screwing me.

I specifically select "Assault" as the game mode so I get to fight, and most PUGs just drop to fight also. Sometimes it's hard to tell another PUG that he's chosen to stay and defend the base while the rest go fight.

What exactly do you mean by "plan accordingly"? Say for example, the PUG team is all heavies and assaults. Do we leave one mech to defend? All stay to defend? Wander out a little bit, but close enough to rush back to base if needed? What's your recommendation?

[N0V0CAIN]

Aloha, on 29 March 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

LOL... I already know the ELO system is screwing me.

I specifically select "Assault" as the game mode so I get to fight, and most PUGs just drop to fight also. Sometimes it's hard to tell another PUG that he's chosen to stay and defend the base while the rest go fight.

What exactly do you mean by "plan accordingly"? Say for example, the PUG team is all heavies and assaults. Do we leave one mech to defend? All stay to defend? Wander out a little bit, but close enough to rush back to base if needed? What's your recommendation?

Use the heavy with streaks and ECM hopefully (DDC)

[Noobzorz]

ItsAPotato, on 29 March 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

My regular group has adopted the philosophy of "never go back". If more than 1 mech tries to turbo cap, we ignore it and rush the enemy main force, because it means they are outnumbered. Usually we stomp them and have time to return to finish off the cappers.

However, if, in your situation, a whole premade tries to turbo cap, we'll just let it happen. We'll lose, our next match will be easier (thanks, Elo!), and we save time (and therefor make more money in the long run). Having the team run back in that situation only results in your team dying a slow, horrible death from getting pincered/swarmed. Leaving something like an assault behind to defend it also goes badly (because you are down an assault in the main fight).

So, just let it happen to save yourself some stress.

Edit: Of course, I still incur some stress trying to rationalize how these people have fun booting up a giant stompy internet robot game only to stand in a little red square the whole time. Not sure where the fun comes from there.

I strongly believe that any game is much better off when everyone is playing to win as quickly and efficiently as possible. I hear some people talking about misanthropy, but in a competitive game, you want people slugging it out instead of trollishly prolonging things, playing clever, and developing creative strategies; it promotes the right kind of community.

Where the developers come in setting the rules to eliminate abusive behavior. At present, I really do not feel like PUG capping is a big deal. It allows clever lights to sneak in a win when the other team was biggier and heavier (and by no means entitled to the win they would have otherwise had simply by virtue of having bigger robots) or disrupting the other team and making them panic. What DOES suck is when the other team has four dudes who know, right out the gate, that they are doing X, and your "plan?" is met with one dude who says "win" and silence from everyone else.

That's unfair, in my opinion, as there is nothing within the rules internal to the game that you, personally, can leverage to deal with that, and it will keep being unfair for some time until people figure out whats what. It will eventually happen, of course, just as it has in DotA 2, where people will pick support heroes and initiators right off the bat and buy wards and couriers, and you hardly have more than one primadonna carries (if even that). At some point MWO is going to go there as people figure out the meta. But right now, if that premade is as willing to coordinate as you are (and if you're on these forums there's a strong likelihood that you're always the most vocal player on your team) there isn't a whole lot you can do about it.

A solo queue seems like a no brainer to me.

Edited by Noobzorz, 29 March 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Mercules]

Aloha, on 29 March 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

LOL... I already know the ELO system is screwing me.

I specifically select "Assault" as the game mode so I get to fight, and most PUGs just drop to fight also. Sometimes it's hard to tell another PUG that he's chosen to stay and defend the base while the rest go fight.

What exactly do you mean by "plan accordingly"? Say for example, the PUG team is all heavies and assaults. Do we leave one mech to defend? All stay to defend? Wander out a little bit, but close enough to rush back to base if needed? What's your recommendation?

You outweigh them most likely. You need to stay close enough to respond to your base but far enough out that you can get eyes on the common approaches. If you have something heavy and fast like a Dragon let them range out a bit further and do a pseudo scout. If not maybe someone has JJs and can get to a place that offers LoS so they can, carefully, hop up and see where the enemy is coming from. Then you intercept them. After all if they don't find you they will eventually come to your base. The area immediately surrounding your base is often a bad place to fight though. Just out from that there is typically some okay ground to fight in on most maps.

As for the Elo, at least before it would try and give teams even up "categories" even if a non ECM MG spider is not totally balanced with a RVN-3L. You would at least have someone who could get out there and maybe spot the incoming enemy or get back to the spawn and tie it up long enough that others could also respond.

[Ngamok]

Aloha, on 29 March 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

LOL... I already know the ELO system is screwing me.

I specifically select "Assault" as the game mode so I get to fight, and most PUGs just drop to fight also. Sometimes it's hard to tell another PUG that he's chosen to stay and defend the base while the rest go fight.

What exactly do you mean by "plan accordingly"? Say for example, the PUG team is all heavies and assaults. Do we leave one mech to defend? All stay to defend? Wander out a little bit, but close enough to rush back to base if needed? What's your recommendation?

Play Crouching Catapult, Hidden Dragon and base sit.

[Stoicblitzer]

i prefer to win a fight rather than cap. however, capping is legit. capping is like a panic button and most pugs split up with the slowest mechs going back to base leaving the others to die. we usually do it just to initiate some panic.

[Stoicblitzer]

Lukoi, on 29 March 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Yo Capper, fellow NC'in.....

And yea, Conquest is an undervalued mode imo. I've had more "great" matches in Conq than Assault frankly, as the game mechanics change much of the tactical thought for many players.

Of course, tbf, I've had some absolutely awful games in the past where getting the team to not scatter to the winds to cap all the points at once (at least that's how it looked) was like trying to herd angry cats and led to terrible losses.

lukoi, capper, fellow NC'ins. represent.

[mrDUDE]

Vividos, on 28 March 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

there should be an age restriction on the internet. i want the adults only internet.

Franchi, on 28 March 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

You want the adult only internet? So do I,

Are we talking about pornhub?

[Bobby Bolivia]

I personally don't understand the cap complaint. Capping was put in to give an alternate way of winning. If you keep getting capped, try getting someone to scout the enemy movement prior to moving in force.

I agree it's frustrating, but it's just another way to get a win.

[Tatula]

Wow! Was just in an "Assault" match and got capped. From the time it Bitching Betty started telling us our base is under attack to cap complete took about 10 seconds. I guess the only way to defend against something like that is to have the entire team play base defense. Maybe you premade cappers should give us a warning. Something like, "This is an Assault match, but if you wander off your base you'll lose in about 10 seconds."

[Vrekgar]

I play alot of groups, Because I like my group and having fun with them is the reason I play at all.

We use the base cap as a focus tactic. Most teams fall into 2 response catagories. They tend to either rush to our cap as fast as possible when we step on. OR, they turn around and rush back to their cap.

Both ways we tend to dictate to the enemy team that they cannot stay where they were and camp. They Have to move out and do something. We capitalize on that. If the enemy rushes to our cap we just pile on theirs and win. If the enemy returns we engage them as they stream back and defeat them in detail.

It feels cheap because it is. We all wish there was a better game mode to play but this is what we are saddled with. We do have several alternate strategies we could employ but most require communication and cooperation that we can only achieve in 8mans.

[PaintedWolf]

Matches in MWO are shorter then matches on Halo and you don't lose any XP or C-Bills and get them every match and so can progress unlike Halo. And I had LOTS of fun playing Halo and Left4Dead.

I only get to play MWO at my bro's, and in 3 hours get a dozen+ matches. If I lose cause the opponent base-caps I really don't care. I have TONS of FUN playing MWO and that's what counts doesn't it?

If they "win" and have less fun, and I lose and have more fun, then according to the meta-game called "life" I am very much ahead, and that, ultimately, is what counts don't it?

[Vrekgar]

Aloha, on 29 March 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Wow! Was just in an "Assault" match and got capped. From the time it Bitching Betty started telling us our base is under attack to cap complete took about 10 seconds. I guess the only way to defend against something like that is to have the entire team play base defense. Maybe you premade cappers should give us a warning. Something like, "This is an Assault match, but if you wander off your base you'll lose in about 10 seconds."

You got rolled by at least 4 high speed, probably Raven 3l's running Cap accelerators. There was probably more. Its happened to my groups as well. The only real response is to as you say, Defend the base.

[Culler]

You could play conquest, where capping may decide the victory but only after some fighting, not before.

Edited by Culler, 29 March 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[PaintedWolf]

Also I only have used Trial Mechs so far and still have LOTS of fun. I expect to have 10 times more fun when I design some Cheese Mechs (kiss my *** ppl who complain about cheese Mechs!!!). Yeah, maybe I lose a lot, and maybe I have to switch up my strategies and they have to be more complicated then I like, but I still have fun and make the most of what I got.

A lot of people are so concerned with treating this game like it is a quest for some Holy Relic that they act as though the goal of a video game is NOT to have FUN.

BTW most non-cheese Mechs have a higher Alpha then Cheese Mechs. The "Cheese Mechs" are good because they allow for simpler strategies since your weapons have the same ranges, rof, weapon speed and cool down/heat, making your weapons very predictable.

It is not because of the Alpha. Trial Mechs usually have a very, very high Alpha, which is the only reason I get kills with Trial Mechs at all.