38 replies to this topic

[Jules Vernes]

Yokaiko, on 30 March 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

Yes, but either though crap modeling, or some......we'll say questionable....design descions, this is becoming CoD with stompy robots....and a bunch of cash draws.

I still think they should have balanced around the STOCK mechs first, and then made the hardpoints.

What we have now is a classic case of too many variables, and since they are effectively released, we are stuck with them.

I agree on the "balance around stock mechs first" part. ECM is one thing they have to work on, but I think it really is an interesting feature. The bubble seems to have a radius that is just too big. Still I think the game is fun right now. I can not see things that are really overpowered and the game is far away from becoming the next CoD.

What is needed most IMO is more (big) maps and a few tweaks to make shooting at arms and legs more viable. Next action then should be to make missiles an alternative again (now this might be done with ECM changes. What you suggested though seems too drastic to me).

Edited by Jules Vernes, 30 March 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Xenosphobatic, on 30 March 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Is the game perfect? I can't say that, but at least they're making that effort.

They are doing it in a decidedly 1 step forward 2 step back fashion.

[Ph30nix]

Grayseven, on 30 March 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

2 SRM 6's in an A1 take care of ECM. Also, if you work as a team instead of a bunch of individuals, you can have a team mate with TAG or ECM counter...heck, even a PPC hit by a team mate takes care of that for a bit. The A1 is an exception in that it is a pure support mech that requires other mechs to be viable...unless you are running a splatcat which, to be honest, I'd do if I were trying to Elite Cats.

Missiles are still strong, just not so OP that they one shot mechs. The days of 90 missile salvos destroying mech after mech are gone. Missiles are once again relegated to the role of support, helping strip armor off of mechs as they close so that they are weaker when they engage in CQB.

missles damage is currently okay its just the hit rate that needs a bump,
but your forgetting that most people PUG, they have zero control over what their team brings, otherwise id never have a conquest match with zero lights....

[Xenosphobatic]

Yokaiko, on 30 March 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

They are doing it in a decidedly 1 step forward 2 step back fashion.

In. Your. Opinion. They are trying to make people happy, unfortunately that is mostly impossible. ECM is bad, ECM is good, LRMs are OP, LRMs are weaksauce, poptart builds are OP, poptarts are perfectly balanced, etc, etc, etc.

[Yokaiko]

Xenosphobatic, on 30 March 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

In. Your. Opinion. They are trying to make people happy, unfortunately that is mostly impossible. ECM is bad, ECM is good, LRMs are OP, LRMs are weaksauce, poptart builds are OP, poptarts are perfectly balanced, etc, etc, etc.

ECM is crap and has been crap since they put it in. Need an example

Light mechs -------> Oh sorry I mean -3L and I'm as guilty as anyone, I like lights, I DON'T like my survival being dependant on there NOT being a couple -3Ls on the other team.

Actually I think LRMs aren't "that" terrible, maybe a little bump, like 1.3 damage and they would be fine.


And yeah, people whine like mad, the new one is dual AC20s now that missiles are out of the way.

[Xenosphobatic]

Yokaiko, on 30 March 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

ECM is crap and has been crap since they put it in. Need an example

Light mechs -------> Oh sorry I mean -3L and I'm as guilty as anyone, I like lights, I DON'T like my survival being dependant on there NOT being a couple -3Ls on the other team.

Actually I think LRMs aren't "that" terrible, maybe a little bump, like 1.3 damage and they would be fine.


And yeah, people whine like mad, the new one is dual AC20s now that missiles are out of the way.

The fun thing is, with a few exceptions, things are pretty balanced. ECM is wonky, but if PGI forced the NARC bay to be just that I'm almost positive 3L's would be less of a problem. (Not to mention that you should never light off by your lonesome if you're afraid of murders, but that's a discussion for another day. )
I'll bring up the point I've brought up before: No one complains about ECM on the Spider, the Cicada, or on the D-DC. If they gave ECM an effect on friendly lock ons/missile systems (increased lock on time, shorter lock decay) it would be a hell of a lot more balanced. IMO, the real problem isn't ECM, it's ECM and SSRMs on the same mech.

[Yokaiko]

Xenosphobatic, on 30 March 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

No one complains about ECM on the Spider, the Cicada, or on the D-DC.

Cicada is easier to shoot....

....and LOL Spider three lasers of fury. C'mon.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Game isn't even close to being balanced and won't ever be until ECM+BAP are completely redesigned and missiles fixed. MGs/Flamers could also still use changing, as they're still crap. You're also wrong about no one complaining about ECM on certain variants. We hate it on EVERY variant. It'd be nice if we could just uncheck a box and queue for games with no ECMs in it, but then it wouldn't be as fun for cheese players that want to use it to their advantage over enemies that don't have it, so we can't have that.

[Xenosphobatic]

Yokaiko, on 30 March 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

....and LOL Spider three lasers of fury. C'mon.

Depending on variant.

Point is, if ECM was actually game breaking, these mechs would be king of the battlefield. They aren't. Streak 'Mandos and Streak Ravens are all anyone actually cares about.

[Yokaiko]

Xenosphobatic, on 30 March 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Depending on variant.

Point is, if ECM was actually game breaking, these mechs would be king of the battlefield. They aren't. Streak 'Mandos and Streak Ravens are all anyone actually cares about.

Beccause the Spider and the Cicada are jokes, and D-DC are LOL PPC + LRM to victory.

[Krondor]

AC/20s aren't a problem. They have two huge drawbacks -they're heavy and have heavy ammo. You can't be in a sustained firefight with them. Like any mech loadout, learn the weaknesses of the AC/20 mechs and exploit them, and avoid their strengths. Running across the open when an AC/20 mech has a clear line of sight to you is stupid. Don't do it. Don't engage him alone. Don't stand still when you fight him. Hit him with some light AC fire to make his screen shake and targeting a pain. AC/20 mechs blow up just the same as any other mech under sustained firepower.

IMO, LRMs were fine a long time ago (pre-ECM), people just didn't know how to use cover and again, exploit the weaknesses of the LRM platform, but I'll let that one die since the "NERF ALL THE WEAPONS!!" crowed inevitably win the dev's ears.

ECM though... ECM is broken. Has been since it was implemented. Why? For all the reasons stated, and one big one: It completely destroyed the meta-game. I've been away from MWO for 2 months and just came back this weekend and it's gotten a bit better (not DC warrior or 3L warrior anymore), but ECM still needs fixing. With larger maps and 12v12 LRMs will HAVE to become a viable weapon again, and that means ECM is going to need a nerf.

[Yokaiko]

Krondor, on 30 March 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

ECM though... ECM is broken. Has been since it was implemented. Why? For all the reasons stated, and one big one: It completely destroyed the meta-game. I've been away from MWO for 2 months and just came back this weekend and it's gotten a bit better (not DC warrior or 3L warrior anymore), but ECM still needs fixing. With larger maps and 12v12 LRMs will HAVE to become a viable weapon again, and that means ECM is going to need a nerf.

Its not D-DC and -3L warrior, everyone is trying to level their crap variants while its a minimum of pain.

[Krondor]

Yokaiko, on 30 March 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Its not D-DC and -3L warrior, everyone is trying to level their crap variants while its a minimum of pain.

True, I hadn't considered that.

[Yokaiko]

Krondor, on 30 March 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

True, I hadn't considered that.

and of course I take my X-5 out.....two -3Ls.

**** ECM. You want to balance ECM plus streak, get rid of that ******* ******** lock denial. Its godamned stupid.

[Krondor]

Xenosphobatic, on 30 March 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Depending on variant.

Point is, if ECM was actually game breaking, these mechs would be king of the battlefield. They aren't. Streak 'Mandos and Streak Ravens are all anyone actually cares about.

In 8v8 you hardly ever see anything but ECM'd lights and ECM'd assaults. Zero point in brining anything else, unless just for variety.

[Yokaiko]

Krondor, on 30 March 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

In 8v8 you hardly ever see anything but ECM'd lights and ECM'd assaults. Zero point in brining anything else, unless just for variety.

usually a couple heavy hitter heavies and assualts mixed in. But you can count on two D-DCs and two -3ls , every single game.

[danust]

I have adjusted to ECM. Still leads to imbalance but some form is needed in the game. Seriously hated it at one time. LRM online would run me off.

Total blackout friend and foe is a bit much even with LOS. Yeah I'm OK with how it is-minor tweaks. 3L in my bay with <10 drops. No DDC.

New pilot bane and probably ran off some pilots. 8v8 drops, 0-4 ECM, that is a thing. In game voice would help negate that.

[Sheraf]

ECM is their favorite, so it won't be fixed any time soon. Meanwhile, everything else will be nerfed before ECM

[MN03]

It's fun when you can't fire LRMs because a light mech with ECM is running around and not even targeting you. Just him being in your surrounding makes your weapon useless, which is a terrible game mechanic.