94 replies to this topic

[Frantic Pryde]

As the title says...pretty please! I always hated that! Thanks

[Joseph Mallan]

I think I'm missing your point? Standard SRM's were only semi guided at best in the games as I remember.

[Frantic Pryde]

Right, I mean they should be semi guided. Not just fly strait forward like they did in mw2 and mw4

[Lorebot]

Um...No.

SRMs have always been dumb fire, that's why Streak SRMs exist.

MRMs are semi tracking and LRMs are full target lock capable

[TheForce]

They should make an exception for them or they'll be useless like they've always been.

How are SRM's different from Streak SRM's in PnP? If I remember correctly, with SRM's you roll to hit, and if you hit you roll to see how many missiles hit. What about streaks?

[Joseph Mallan]

Oh dear that reminded me of once I was firing some streaks at a Mech that jumped over me after getting a target lock. Watching the missiles swoop over my Mech to hit the target Mech gave me the giggles forcing me to pause! Ahh good times, good times!

[Sholto MacLeod]

There's a reason for this. The more electronics and the longer range you pack onto a missile, the less boom it has.

Technically, dumfire srm 5s should be one of the hardest hitting missiles in the game, perfect for short range engagements. Kind of like Rocket Rails. That was the strength of the russian Катюша (Katyusha) rocket, a design still used today because it's simple, can't be jammed, and packs one hell of a punch.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"can't be jammed"

That is the reason right there. If Electronic Warfare is properly represented (as it should be) then you will thanks the Commanders Brass buttons that you have Dumb fire SRM's when anything with Electronics in it becomes a waste of tonnage during whatever battle it happens in.

"Information Warfare" that is a Dev term and I like it, I like it a lot.

[CasualT]

Sholto MacLeod, on 07 November 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

There's a reason for this. The more electronics and the longer range you pack onto a missile, the less boom it has.

Technically, dumfire srm 5s should be one of the hardest hitting missiles in the game, perfect for short range engagements. Kind of like Rocket Rails. That was the strength of the russian Катюша (Katyusha) rocket, a design still used today because it's simple, can't be jammed, and packs one hell of a punch.

Agreed. I think they should boost the damage on the SRM, since in about all MechWarrior games besides the first one, they are just about useless.

[Hayden]

I think "dumb" SRMs were fine, especially fighting slow/unmaneuverable targets in MW2 (Looking at you assault 'mechs) or for urban engagements, which happened fairly often. You want a guided SRM, you want a Streak SRM, am I right?

[Creel]

theforce, on 07 November 2011 - 09:56 AM, said:

They should make an exception for them or they'll be useless like they've always been.

How are SRM's different from Streak SRM's in PnP? If I remember correctly, with SRM's you roll to hit, and if you hit you roll to see how many missiles hit. What about streaks?

In TT rules, Streaks don't roll on the Missile Hit Table, if you hit they all hit. They are truly "guided missiles"
Regular SRMs do roll on the MHT, while not completely dumb-fire they are only semi-guided; they don't all 'lock-on'.

MRMs are dumb-fire. they also roll on the MHT and have a lower hit ratio than LRMs of comparable salvo density.

[Tweaks]

Lorebot, on 07 November 2011 - 09:55 AM, said:

Um...No.

SRMs have always been dumb fire, that's why Streak SRMs exist.

MRMs are semi tracking and LRMs are full target lock capable

^^ This ^^

[Gaius Cavadus]

Lorebot, on 07 November 2011 - 09:55 AM, said:

Um...No. SRMs have always been dumb fire, that's why Streak SRMs exist. MRMs are semi tracking and LRMs are full target lock capable

So they're completely worthless and never used just like in every single MW game where the function like that?

Ummm, no. Without guidance they're worthless.

Let SRMs lock just like LRMs. If we have streaks let them insta-lock (just get the cursor over the target). This is yet another instance where the TT rules fail the virtual simulation completely and utterly.

[Lorebot]

Cavadus, on 07 November 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

So they're completely worthless and never used just like in every single MW game where the function like that?

Ummm, no. Without guidance they're worthless.

Let SRMs lock just like LRMs. If we have streaks let them insta-lock (just get the cursor over the target). This is yet another instance where the TT rules fail the virtual simulation completely and utterly.

No, they're not worthless. They're one of the heaviest hitting short range weapons in the game. An SRM8 salvo can tear a medium mech in half if used properly. They're dumb fire for a reason, they don't have room in the missile for guidance systems. You just have to AIM, like with any unguided projectile. They don't move quite as fast as a machine gun bullet or small laser fire, but they move fast enough to make them usable if you learn how. They're short range, you shouldn't be trying to fire them at a mech that's at medium or long range, and they cover a spread like an LBX cannon round. You may not hit with every missile, but you don't have to hit with all of them to make it worth using.

You want to not miss? Load up on Streaks, they do less damage but they're guaranteed hits. Personally I'd rather just get up in your face and put a whole salvo of SRMs in you because at that range guidance won't matter. You're bigger than a barn, I don't need guidance

[Tweaks]

Cavadus, on 07 November 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

So they're completely worthless and never used just like in every single MW game where the function like that?

Ummm, no. Without guidance they're worthless.

Let SRMs lock just like LRMs. If we have streaks let them insta-lock (just get the cursor over the target). This is yet another instance where the TT rules fail the virtual simulation completely and utterly.

LOL no they are not. You just gotta learn how to lead your shots. It's like shooting someone with a shotgun in any FPS.

[TheRulesLawyer]

CasualT, on 07 November 2011 - 10:16 AM, said:

Agreed. I think they should boost the damage on the SRM, since in about all MechWarrior games besides the first one, they are just about useless.

Not needed if they get rid of pinpoint accuracy, especially group fire. SRM's do quite a bit of damage, they are just distributed. This isn't such a problem in TT where hit locations are all random. However when they are one of the few weapons without pinpoint accuracy it really sucks. Fix accuracy in general and you fix SRM's. (Also fire your SRM's after the rest of your weapons. They're most useful as crit seekers once armor locations are open)

[TheForce]

TheRulesLawyer, on 07 November 2011 - 11:10 AM, said:

Not needed if they get rid of pinpoint accuracy, especially group fire. SRM's do quite a bit of damage, they are just distributed. This isn't such a problem in TT where hit locations are all random. However when they are one of the few weapons without pinpoint accuracy it really sucks. Fix accuracy in general and you fix SRM's. (Also fire your SRM's after the rest of your weapons. They're most useful as crit seekers once armor locations are open)

In PnP didn't all missiles in one salvo hit the same area? So even if we get rid of pinpoint accuracy in MWO, SRM's without lock are going to hit multiple areas rather than one area like PnP.

If my understanding of PnP is correct, I want SRM's to lock on, roll for damage, and all damage to one spot. For streaks, lock on, and all damage goes to one spot.

Edited by theforce, 07 November 2011 - 11:20 AM.

[Xhaleon]

Since when were SRMs unguided in the fluff? They're just short ranged. Only MRMs are unguided, as people have noted, as they are the only ones with the dice roll penalty.

Want to separate Streaks and normal SRMs in a realtime game? Make sure that Streak SRMs can turn around on a dime, cannot fire without a missile lock, and they only fire if they aren't blocked by some part of the terrain. It won't emulate the effect on the tabletop accurately because fast mechs may still run to cover before the Streaks get there, but in any other situation it would be a guaranteed hit. It would emulate the fluffy aspect of not being able to dumbfire the missiles. Which so happens to not have much of an impact on the tabletop anyway, since a miss is always a complete miss unless you consider accidental forest fires.

[Lorebot]

theforce, on 07 November 2011 - 11:19 AM, said:

In PnP didn't all missiles in one salvo hit the same area? So even if we get rid of pinpoint accuracy in MWO, SRM's without lock are going to hit multiple areas rather than one area like PnP.

If my understanding of PnP is correct, I want SRM's to lock on, roll for damage, and all damage to one spot. For streaks, lock on, and all damage goes to one spot.

Nope, as previously stated, all normal missile attacks roll on the Missle Hit Table. That table determines how many missiles from the salvo hit the target and then what location each individual missile strikes. With an SRM8 you probably won't get more than 1 or 2 missiles in a single hit location unless you're very lucky. This is also what makes using LRMs a nightmare in tabletop...rolling individually for an LRM20 takes 3 mins and that's just for 1 of them...if you've got 2, like say on a Catapult...be prepared for a 10min turn if you don't have simplified damage rules or a random damage generator program running on a nearby computer.

[TheForce]

Lorebot, on 07 November 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

Nope, as previously stated, all normal missile attacks roll on the Missle Hit Table. That table determines how many missiles from the salvo hit the target and then what location each individual missile strikes. With an SRM8 you probably won't get more than 1 or 2 missiles in a single hit location unless you're very lucky. This is also what makes using LRMs a nightmare in tabletop...rolling individually for an LRM20 takes 3 mins and that's just for 1 of them...if you've got 2, like say on a Catapult...be prepared for a 10min turn if you don't have simplified damage rules or a random damage generator program running on a nearby computer.

Ty for correcting me.

Computers calculating damage for tabletop??? Nice (I'm old school and haven't played since 80s)!