296 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

Buddahcjcc, on 31 March 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

She was? I dont understand body language lol

It's a hobby of mine. I've studied Kinesics and Graphology. Mind you, some regard them as pseudosciences.

[Teralitha]

Wintersdark, on 31 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

re:

Everyone is filled with rage and disgruntlement at a small snippet that may or may not have been misinterpreted or what have you, I figured I'd draw attention to it.

I, for one, am chock full off Squee at the contents of this interview:
Lone Wolf gameplay: Exists for those who just want to drop and play, and don't care about CW or the Larger Story.
Faction gameplay: For the roleplayer sorts, who want to be a part of something larger, but don't want the hassle/responsibility of being a part of a large autonomous guild of players.
Merc gameplay: For the player who wants to be a part of a large guild of players, to be a part of something entirely player driven, who want direct control of their destiny.

This sounds downright awesome to me. I'd love to do the "Merc Gameplay" style of play, but generally speaking just can't devote the time necessary to do so; scheduled events are out for me. But on the other hand, I want more than the aimless drop-and-fight we have now. I want a purpose! So it looks like Faction gameplay will be the way to go for me, unless I happen across a Merc guild that can work for me.

All in all, the interview sounded pretty damn promising.

So, a /hattip to our developers, and while I'm sure this will be lost in the Open Forum Warfare, I for one am even more excited for Community Warfare than I was before this whole kerfluffle.

Its all sounds interesting, and I think bryan is a pretty smart guy after listening to him speak in this video, but Im still concerned about the balance of the game. It wasnt mentioned at all. Without a good balance the game will fail no matter how much work they do to add new content. He says they are working to create an experience that is fun for other people, but a well balanced game is probably the biggest factor when it comes to fun.

Currently, the balance is ... not good. They say they are always working on balance... but thats just a blanket statement. It doesnt mean much when there is little communication going on and little improvement in the area of game balance.

When the players via the forums are constantly making topics regarding various balance issues... you shouldnt be dismissing them saying "oh, one group thinks item A is op, and another group is saying item A is fine. That is not the correct feedback for balance.

That only works if people say item A is OP, and the other group say its weak. Which isnt really happening here. You need to start paying very close attention to topics concerning balance because there are bits of truth in them and sometimes a gold nugget on how to make something balanced properly.

Edited by Teralitha, 31 March 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[Tallon J]

Quote

[color=#959595]He said it, "games out'.[/color]

[color=#959595]I think we can put the it's still Beta argument to bed now.[/color]

[color=#959595]Looking good though.[/color]

He did say the full release is in late summer though .... so that beta argument is still up

[Gremlich Johns]

The players' issues at hand as I see them, being an old fuddy duddy Lonewolf who used to be the Loremaster then Khan of an NBT-HC Clan. The Community Warfare is, at present, a shiny, sparkly object of unknown dimension irrespective of Russ and Bryan's comments at the GDC or elsewhere. The Community Warfare will be predicated on how PGI can best monetize the feature - NOTHING more. We have seen that with the consumables. Seriously, 15,000 GXP for something. Since Closed Beta, I've earned maybe 10,000 tops.

Do Players need to maintain a premium account - I would definitely say the answer is "no"

Do Mercs need to register their group for a fee -- answer is indeterminate at this time as is,

If there is a registration fee, is it one time or annually - unknown (but, based on PGI's record of duplicity, probably it will be annually)

If Mercs officially register their group, do they need to get a premium account - indeterminate

If Mercs need to get a premium account, what benefits will they receive (something along the lines of the Founder's pack, perhaps?) - unknown

Are the Clans considered to be in the same business model as the Mercs - Unknown

Will premium time be decremented by when you play and not by how long you exist in time - probably not. Cannot make money that way.

When with there be a Team Death Match? Meaning no capture the flag aspect (the current Assault game mode) There are far more people who want TDM than the ethereal numbers wanting 3PV. I bet you.

When Community Warfare is launched, will it be 1st Person View only - indeterminate, however, based on PGI's unclear business model, who really knows.

The last one in particular, depending on the answer, will make or break this game. Second, how much money PGI is confident they can extract from the player base. There is a limit, trust me. Big stompy robots or no.

And for all of you guys out there wanting to post something, keep it relatively civil. You'll be ignored otherwise and everybody likes to be heard. Make it impersonal and either thoughtful or constructive (or both). Your point of view, but have it be rational so as to not enrage the trolls.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 01 April 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Buddahcjcc, on 31 March 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

tweet it to Bryan. He might answer

Oh man, that's more than 140 spaces.....

[MentalPatient]

DeadlyNerd, on 31 March 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

So basically CW will be like OGame. A bunch of numbers and a big map. Lovely.
The backbone of the game will still be the ever lacking combat.
We'll continue to fight on random maps, only in CW there'll be a few extra numbers on the EOR screen.

How can you be excited about that?

Hopefully they add dropship insertion and extraction, waypoints and objectives, etc. what would be brilliant, is if they had a mission editor, where faction/merc leaders could set actual objectives, such as attack, defend, escort. Also, it would be awesome to have probes which you could send out to different planets to transmit any activity so if there is movement around a planet, you can send units to scout, and attack if it is an important objective. To me, adding these would drastically Change the game from what it is now, to something more immersive and goal directed.

Edited by MentalPatient, 31 March 2013 - 07:05 PM.

[Brethgar]

I have some questions about community warfare and I know that no one knows right now, but maybe someone who does might read this and think it's time to answer them. Or maybe we could just speculate.

Ok, say I am in a Merc Corp but the only one online because it's 4 in the morning or something. Will I be obligated to try to defend a planet all by myself? Who will fill out the rest of the drop with me if that happens?

If a House doesn't have enough members ready to drop for a "border war" fight, will it get filled with Lone Wolves ie. PUGs? If so, what bonus do the Lone Wolves get for participating?

Can I "opt out" of Merc Warfare with my group and go fight House battles for a while or do I only get to fight at the Merc level?

If Mercs get special gear or mechs from their contracts, will they ever be able to return to Lone Wolf play with said special gear or mechs. Will that gear make a difference in power over the other Lone Wolves?

I probably ought to post this in it's own thread because it will likely get buried, but I'm here at the end of this thread and don't wanna, so here ya go. Discuss...

[Lonestar1771]

Brethgar, on 31 March 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

I have some questions about community warfare and I know that no one knows right now, but maybe someone who does might read this and think it's time to answer them. Or maybe we could just speculate.

Ok, say I am in a Merc Corp but the only one online because it's 4 in the morning or something. Will I be obligated to try to defend a planet all by myself? Who will fill out the rest of the drop with me if that happens?

If a House doesn't have enough members ready to drop for a "border war" fight, will it get filled with Lone Wolves ie. PUGs? If so, what bonus do the Lone Wolves get for participating?

Can I "opt out" of Merc Warfare with my group and go fight House battles for a while or do I only get to fight at the Merc level?

If Mercs get special gear or mechs from their contracts, will they ever be able to return to Lone Wolf play with said special gear or mechs. Will that gear make a difference in power over the other Lone Wolves?

I probably ought to post this in it's own thread because it will likely get buried, but I'm here at the end of this thread and don't wanna, so here ya go. Discuss...

I'm pretty sure PGI doesn't even know half the answers to these questions.


@OP, I hope you don't think this settles anything. First of all the interview was basic in it's scope. The interviewer was obviously unprepared and knew little to nothing of MWO. Bryan was giving canned answers and responses. As for the content of the interview, well it really provided very minimal NEW information. We knew 90% of that already, with the other 10% being the news that they will be fragmenting the player base even more.

EDIT 2: Upon rewatching the interview, I get the feeling that this is more concept pitching with the actual implementation being an empty shell of what is being described. Needless to say, I have lost all hope for this game and pretty much all interest is gone as well.

Edited by Lonestar1771, 31 March 2013 - 07:58 PM.

[Tekadept]

Lonestar1771, on 31 March 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure PGI doesn't even know half the answers to these questions.

Kind of like the writers on LOST, they just started making stuff up as they went along LOL

Edited by Tekadept, 31 March 2013 - 07:49 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Thank you, clueless about the industry industry interviewer woman, for derailing a great interview about community warfare with a tangent about hiring clueless people with 0 talent.

... why can't these interviewers get someone that at least understands the industry vaguely? Bryan was giving us a lot of really exciting info and did very well here, but yeah... she wasn't helping do anything but murder that info dump.

[Dan Nashe]

I was happy to hear that the merc/planet reward system is at least *tied* to the factions, so they may not turn into pirates. Although they'd mentioned something about mercs being associated with factions before :-).

Still, I do wonder if they need to rename merc companies "units" . . . because I can see highly organized house loyal units basically wanting to do this, but it may be as trivially simple as changing some naming conventions.

Still, we'll see. No real idea what things will be like. Give it 3 months :-).

[Bishop Steiner]

do love how people hear what they want to hear.

While obviously not addressing many of the potential WTFs Russ brought into play, the interview actually DID flesh out the concept of Passive v Active CW, In the overall how each would affect the grand scheme, and where Lone Wolves would fit. Was pretty specific about what to expect in each wave of CW implementation, including CLANS in wave 3.

Was it all answering? Hardly. Is there plenty of damage control tto be done over RussGate? For sure. But this was hardly a wasted interview, even if the interviewer could have been more on point with questions. (not gonna hate on the woman, don't know the context. Could be new)

What I find hilarious, is when there is something negative and vague enough to twist into something dark and malicious, we, the community knock out a 125 page orgy of hate and venom in under 48 hrs.

Anything gets posted with a positive spin, and the response isntepid at best, and people still try to find ways to twist it and tear people down.

I was in the forefront of the charge to get answers after the Polygon interview, but watching the attitudes of the community, I can indeed see why the Devs not only don't much like reading GenDis forums, but why they have trouble taking anything serious, when even positive stuff is met with acorn and ridicule.

I am understanding more and more why the term Troll is used, as it seems the internet brings out the small, ugly and malicious in all of us.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I'm still frustrated that we find out key aspects of game development through the media, and not from the developers ...

Community Warfare is going to be a pain to manage, particularly given the different "player categories" ... my ideas:

- Trial Mech-Only Matches:
-- same concept as Random Matches, but limited to Trial Mechs
-- Default Setting for the first 25 Games
- Random Matches:
-- open for anyone in groups of 4 or less - standard c-bill & xp rewards
-- basically the same as PUG matches now
- Lobby Matches:
-- anyone can create, anyone can join - no rewards (other than bragging rights, etc.)
-- allows for training, duels, semi-organized play, or community-run tournements, etc.

Community Warfare Matches:
- Each House (not Merc Corps) sets priorities for defense or attack of certain systems (at first these priorities will only be set by the GMs, as the community develops, there may be a way to give some of the control to the players)
- Whether these Matches are Random or specific maps should be up to defender
- Houses reward successful combat (wins) on those systems with
-- Standard C-Bill and XP awards, plus
--- A small amount of Loyalty Points for Lone Wolves
--- A larger amount of Loyalty Points for House Members, depending on the priority of the mission
--- (something else) for the Mercs

The trick is, how do you make those rewards worth it ... and that might be what led to the unfortunate Polygon article ...
Mercs aren't after Loyalty Points - they want CASH ... if you can buy special badges, skins, etc. only with Loyalty Points, what's the point of Community Warfare for the Mercs? Give them C-Bills? Not worth it. Give them MC? Not for free!

So what is the "something else" that you give Mercs for participating in Community Warfare?

Maybe now that they're actually talking to someone, they'll start talking to us again.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 31 March 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[Slater01]

This game is just taking forever. I seriously thought they would had much more for release over the next 2-3 months. I think I'll have to take a break.

[Lonestar1771]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 March 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

do love how people hear what they want to hear.

While obviously not addressing many of the potential WTFs Russ brought into play, the interview actually DID flesh out the concept of Passive v Active CW, In the overall how each would affect the grand scheme, and where Lone Wolves would fit. Was pretty specific about what to expect in each wave of CW implementation, including CLANS in wave 3.

Was it all answering? Hardly. Is there plenty of damage control tto be done over RussGate? For sure. But this was hardly a wasted interview, even if the interviewer could have been more on point with questions. (not gonna hate on the woman, don't know the context. Could be new)

What I find hilarious, is when there is something negative and vague enough to twist into something dark and malicious, we, the community knock out a 125 page orgy of hate and venom in under 48 hrs.

Anything gets posted with a positive spin, and the response isntepid at best, and people still try to find ways to twist it and tear people down.

I was in the forefront of the charge to get answers after the Polygon interview, but watching the attitudes of the community, I can indeed see why the Devs not only don't much like reading GenDis forums, but why they have trouble taking anything serious, when even positive stuff is met with acorn and ridicule.

I am understanding more and more why the term Troll is used, as it seems the internet brings out the small, ugly and malicious in all of us.

What I don't understand is the incessant love fest for the devs. Early in the life of the forums, life was good and everybody danced and was friendly and was actually a very pleasant community to be around, then PGI started screwing up and people got frustrated. So everything that has happened up to this point is all on PGI, especially considering they are the ones in control of the information flow.

So many of their blunders could have been avoided if they would say what they mean and mean what they say. It seems they spend more time backpedaling on "misinterpreted/misquoted" information then actually talking up what is actually good about the new stuff. You can blame the community for PGI's mistakes all you want, but PGI made the bed and now have to lay in it.

Buddahcjcc, on 31 March 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

the longer the beta the better. MORE time to fix **** before launching is good not bad

Problem is they don't like to actually fix anything.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 31 March 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I'm still frustrated that we find out key aspects of game development through the media, and not from the developers ...

I (nor anyone here) is ever going to get a direct answer to this question, but if you look at it the reason is because of the power of consuming media, rather than trying to direct it specifically.

What I'm going to say doesn't speak to this one interview, but what I see as a whole.

We as people who watch a press release of the Presidents current issue are going to listen to what he says and then listen to the answers he gives the press from their questions. There's some time limit I'm sure, but the press knows enough about the issue to ask some questions that will get some good information. Once it's done, You feel a little more informed, and then walk away to watch things unfold.

Now let's remove those press agents and replace them with active Republicans and Democrats who are well versed in the issue. They are going to ask far more specific questions, they are not going to stop at a short paragraph in response. Those questions are going to go on until the subject has been gone over exhaustively, and they will go on and on for days if possible.

Russ and PGI give out broad strokes to the media, the media wants some details but knows not to delve too far. We as a group are going to want to know every detail of every concept thought of even if it wasn't used.

Russ can speak to the media and get people interested in looking at MWO, Russ says something to us and it's the Spanish Inquisition all over again. Here's my idea, why didn't you think of it? Better yet, now that you've heard it why haven't you told your programmers to start coding for it. Ad Infinitum for each person there, not counting the arguments people would get into in front of Russ as to why their idea is better than the guy before them.

We understand we all want this to be a good game, most of us understand it's not going to be perfect, and with our help as a community we can suggest positive changes. I'm disgruntled about little things here and there, I've voiced my opinions and gone on about my day. I've argued over different points as well.

My outlook is this, I'm giving PGI some room to take steps and make mistakes up until release day. Then a countdown clock begins, if I think the game is going good and continues to make progress, then PGI keeps getting small amounts of money from me. If not, then I start looking to other games and their potential, Star Citizen already has some of my money, I see it's potential, just like I do in MWO. Right now, MWO has my attention because I'm enjoying it.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 31 March 2013 - 10:03 PM.

[Slater01]

So how many groups will actually pay for community warfare?
How much would you personally contribute per year to MWO?

I have given myself $100/year limit. I'll give $25 of that $100 to CW for my group.

Edited by Slater01, 31 March 2013 - 10:20 PM.

[Krell Darkmoon]

Slater01, on 31 March 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

How much would you personally contribute per year to MWO?

In it's current Direction..... $0

Already bought the Legendary Pack last year, that's all they'll every see from me so long as the game continues to Fail so Epically.

[Vassago Rain]

Matt Minus, on 31 March 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

It's because their rage was intensely stupid. Basically, it's a crew of folks that goes insane whenever they suspect that there might be a plan for this game to actually make money, and they deserve to be mocked.

Back on topic: That interview has some of the most uncomfortable, awkward body language I've ever seen.

The rage was entirely justified, and the only natural reaction. You're a bad consumer if you think otherwise.

[xengk]

Belorion, on 31 March 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

In there somewhere he says that Merc Corps will have to work with the House troops from the faction they are working with...

We don't know what that means right now, so we don't know they will only be fighting other Merc units.

I believe it was previously mention before that House can hire Mercs via contract.
However who control and issue these contracts is still a mystery.