Jump to content

Feedback: Elo Worthless | 8V8 Actually Fun


183 replies to this topic

#1 Caleb Lee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 343 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:19 PM

So... ELO has completely killed the game for me. It's now at the TOP of my **** list and has supplanted ECM.

Why? My win/loss and K/D have been dropping like rocks every since it was implemented. While that doesn't mean much, it's a good gauge of how bad things are and why I'm so frustrated at the noob teammates ELO keeps pairing my teams up with.

It's most notable this weekend with all the beginners and even regulars who are really rusty returning to play the game with the 2x XP etc...

List of epic failure:

1) Tonnage Limit/Class Matching - If I take anything other than an assault, I'm screwed as I have high ELO and it doesn't take tonnage into account. I've been in matches where we've been at a 400 or more tonnage disadvantage. I.E. If I take a light/med, my counter part could be an assault. I also HATE capping, and being forced into a situation where you are the last on your team and that's the only option left.

2) Sync Drops - Apparently are broken and there's now a way to for teams of 8 to sync together against 4 man teams.

3) ELO Skill Levels - Before ELO I had at least random chance of having decent players on my team. Now, it's like I have 4 cannon fodder and hope they do just enough damage we stand a chance of winning. Maybe 1 in 4 matches I'll have a decent team, meanwhile facing an average or above average team on the other side. Four players can't carry a team, not easily or well, and if they do it's cause the other team typically screwed up.

4) Average Players - Their skill level is going up, so that makes it even HARDER to hold your own.

8v8

On the other hand, 8v8 was actually fun the other night. Dropped against some good teams and it appears it's no longer all DDC anymore and was fairly balanced for once.

So that's positive... and I can't say otherwise, it could still be ECM fest but maybe teams are simply tired of the cheese. I had a lot of fun tagging along with HARD Corp. as my unit is barely playing anymore.

#2 ShadowDarter

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 442 posts
  • LocationSydney city Mechbay

Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:29 PM

so your basically saying that your now having to play at a realistic level compition, and that you cannot pug stomp like you used to...

As for 8 man teams its only 8V8 no mix ups and sync dropping was never a supported feature.

welcome to the new world...

#3 Chavette

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,864 posts

Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:31 PM

Lol, 8ddc teams are jokes, we roll em all the time.

#4 Coolwhoami

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 94 posts

Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

View PostCaleb Lee, on 31 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

I'm screwed as I have high ELO and it doesn't take tonnage into account.


Either a troll or a fool, always hard to tell which.

#5 Bogus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 487 posts

Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:59 PM

So basically what the OP is saying is that ELO actually does work and it's making it harder for coordinated 4-mans to roflstomp pugs? Hm, interesting, most comments I've seen are that ELO isn't pairing people up right.

#6 ProtoformX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 436 posts

Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostBogus, on 31 March 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

So basically what the OP is saying is that ELO actually does work and it's making it harder for coordinated 4-mans to roflstomp pugs? Hm, interesting, most comments I've seen are that ELO isn't pairing people up right.

No, evidently you're unable to read, or comprehend. He's stating that Elo is placing terrible/new trial mech players on his team to make up for his much higher Elo. Hardly fair imo.

#7 Caleb Lee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 343 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:10 PM

View PostShadowDarter, on 31 March 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

so your basically saying that your now having to play at a realistic level compition, and that you cannot pug stomp like you used to...

As for 8 man teams its only 8V8 no mix ups and sync dropping was never a supported feature.

welcome to the new world...


No... I'm saying that I am constantly paired with the following types of players as the other 4 on our teams:

1) Little to no damage, can't hit what they do shoot at.
2) Run in as singletons.
3) No cohesiveness when they are a team, i.e. Pugs
4) Tell you to F*** off if you give any directions whatsoever.
5) No patience or situational awareness.
6) STOCK mechs.
7) Run out of ammo with cheese builds like 6 AC2 Jaegermechs.

Yeah, it's been fun. Really... Wasn't this bad prior to ELO.

#8 Vermaxx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,012 posts
  • LocationBuenos Aires

Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:14 PM

His team cannot be that good if it isn't doing any pub-wrangling and their stats are 'dropping like rocks.' His ELO was artificially inflated well past his skill by a never ending series of wins prior to even our babby-steps matching.

I run with a group of three or four usually, the players vary and often include at least one 'new person' from TS. We usually do rather well, definitely far better than this guy is implying things are. YES, ELO sucks. YES, tonnage mismatching can be a real pain. YES, sync drops are happening, but it is unknown how often or if that is more than before ELO.

New people may be terrible, but they are MORE LIKELY to listen to directions than longer-running players who THINK they are better than they are. If you are getting grouped with a lot of bad players, start the match (in group chat) telling them you are in a squad, follow us, shoot who we shoot. Do them the courtesy of TYPING OUT WHICH TARGET TO SHOOT TOO. Only one out of your four has to do it, you can do it as simple as "Shoot A," and it will at least get some of those four on the same page.

On average, new players don't want to suck. I don't want to suck when I play a new game mode in SC2 custom. At least in SC2 though, I can go play some offline games with limited AI function and get the basics down. There is no way to do that in MWO. New people get thrown into a match with essentially no hands-on training, and then often get ignored by "teams" who assume their allies will magically figure out how to be useful. Teach people how to be useful, or just leave the PUG scene entirely and play in 8s.

#9 Caleb Lee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 343 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:28 PM

View PostVermaxx, on 31 March 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

His team cannot be that good if it isn't doing any pub-wrangling and their stats are 'dropping like rocks.' His ELO was artificially inflated well past his skill by a never ending series of wins prior to even our babby-steps matching.


Well, I've been playing since the Founders program.

It has never been this bad.

A lot of the time I play PUG 4-Mans on Comstar NA. Same people, same game, the only thing that has changed is ELO.

My ELO wasn't artificially inflated as I don't synch drop and am playing with the same people.

When we had 8 man teams I had a 40+ kill death/ratio and a 20+ win/loss ratio. When they nixed that, my average for months has been 5-6 K/D and 3/1 W/L. That has been constant... and while not that great, is still decent considering I'm PUGing as our unit isn't playing the game.

Please don't make assumptions on my behalf.

#10 Vermaxx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,012 posts
  • LocationBuenos Aires

Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:32 PM

View PostCaleb Lee, on 31 March 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:


Well, I've been playing since the Founders program.

It has never been this bad.

A lot of the time I play PUG 4-Mans on Comstar NA. Same people, same game, the only thing that has changed is ELO.

My ELO wasn't artificially inflated as I don't synch drop and am playing with the same people.

When we had 8 man teams I had a 40+ kill death/ratio and a 20+ win/loss ratio. When they nixed that, my average for months has been 5-6 K/D and 3/1 W/L. That has been constant... and while not that great, is still decent considering I'm PUGing as our unit isn't playing the game.

Please don't make assumptions on my behalf.

Then don't act like it's the end of the world. PROPER ELO is supposed to give a player about 50/50 in his skill bracket. You are far more like 75/25 in what amounts to a 'skill bracket.'

In other words, ELO IS broken...for everyone playing against you, since hobbling you with four idiots still hasn't normalized your ability to win.

#11 Caleb Lee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 343 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostVermaxx, on 31 March 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Then don't act like it's the end of the world. PROPER ELO is supposed to give a player about 50/50 in his skill bracket. You are far more like 75/25 in what amounts to a 'skill bracket.'

In other words, ELO IS broken...for everyone playing against you, since hobbling you with four idiots still hasn't normalized your ability to win.


It IS though is the problem... my Win/Loss is now like 2.5 and my K/D is down to 4.5.

Why are they implementing a SOCIALIST program that handicaps us. I'm losing far more than I'm winning now as a result of what I've posted above.

They are FORCING a losing situation and it really, really sucks.

#12 Teralitha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,188 posts

Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:51 PM

View PostCaleb Lee, on 31 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

2) Sync Drops - Apparently are broken and there's now a way to for teams of 8 to sync together against 4 man teams.


Sync dropping doesnt work as well as u think it does for 4 + 4. More often than not the other 4 end up on opposite teams.

However... 4+1 in a tourney has a much higher chance of dropping together and should be dealt with just for that reason alone.

#13 Teralitha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,188 posts

Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:20 PM

View PostCaleb Lee, on 31 March 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:


Well, I've been playing since the Founders program.

It has never been this bad.

A lot of the time I play PUG 4-Mans on Comstar NA. Same people, same game, the only thing that has changed is ELO.

My ELO wasn't artificially inflated as I don't synch drop and am playing with the same people.

When we had 8 man teams I had a 40+ kill death/ratio and a 20+ win/loss ratio. When they nixed that, my average for months has been 5-6 K/D and 3/1 W/L. That has been constant... and while not that great, is still decent considering I'm PUGing as our unit isn't playing the game.

Please don't make assumptions on my behalf.


Solo pugging is harder than grouping up. And I am curious.... why has your unit stopped playing?

#14 MadPanda

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • LocationSearching for a game...

Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:28 PM

View PostCaleb Lee, on 31 March 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

Yeah, just had a game where [REDACTED] in an Awesome-8V responded with a very helpful "you're not my commander", did 0 damage, charged off to cap the base solo and proceeded to lecture us the entire time on why he was so leet after he split the team pretty evenly.

Needless to say we lost the match hands down something like 2-8.

Please save me from ID-10-T errors.


Well who was the commander? If the spot was open, you should have taken it and replied to him with your new yellow text; "Yes I am your commander, son."

Edited by Helmer, 03 April 2013 - 08:59 AM.
Thread clean up.


#15 Tickdoff Tank

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,647 posts
  • LocationCharlotte NC

Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:30 PM

View PostCaleb Lee, on 31 March 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:


It IS though is the problem... my Win/Loss is now like 2.5 and my K/D is down to 4.5.

Why are they implementing a SOCIALIST program that handicaps us. I'm losing far more than I'm winning now as a result of what I've posted above.

They are FORCING a losing situation and it really, really sucks.


If you are winning more than 50% of your matches then you are not in the right Elo grouping. As a poster above has said, you should be losing/winning 50% of your games in a "proper" Elo system.

Another thing to remember, the Elo rating for your group is the average of all the players in your group. So if you have a high Elo then you will be paired with lower Elo people when needed to match the other groups Elo. But you are an elite pilot, so you should have no problem carrying the team, right?

edit: double posted, oops.

Edited by Tickdoff Tank, 31 March 2013 - 08:13 PM.


#16 Ghost_19Hz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 512 posts
  • LocationSHB

Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:32 PM

Even if you are solo pugging, if you make up too much of your team's average, you will near consistently get terrible teammates. However, you will find no sympathy on these forums as here, just like in game, you are the minority. You are killing the majority, that makes them mad. They will pray ELO is punishing you, and if it is, its "doing its job".

#17 Caleb Lee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 343 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:39 PM

View PostTeralitha, on 31 March 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:


Solo pugging is harder than grouping up. And I am curious.... why has your unit stopped playing?


Various reasons... I'd say most of them aren't playing thanks to ECM, that was a killer for a while. Then ELO and no class matching/battle value. Now they are hitting us with 3PV/Coolant Flush and more broken promises. They are tired of not playing together as a unit as there's almost always an odd man out or two.

Maybe I can get them to do 8v8 now after my experience the other night. Mostly they are waiting for metagame and private matchmaking.

#18 Vermaxx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,012 posts
  • LocationBuenos Aires

Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:39 PM

He has already stated his ratios are still above 1-1/1-1. When his ration get BELOW 50/50, I will feel bad for him.

I don't want him to get punished because he is leet (if he was that leet he'd stop banging his head against a wall and get on another team, even some shartlords in TS3), I want him to realize that he is still above the curve.

If he is this upset while being ABOVE THE CURVE, what happens if his stats actually do even out at 50/50 solo?

#19 Caleb Lee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 343 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:47 PM

View PostTickdoff Tank, on 31 March 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

But you are an elite pilot, so you should have no problem carrying the team, right?



That's the real rub... there's no way for one pilot or even several to carry a team. A group of average to above average players will always win in a game like this.

I also want it that way.

I'm NOT winning most of my games right now unless we all go Atlas/Stalker and carry the team. That is NOT fun. I'm forced int o a weight class not of my choosing so I stand any chance of winning.

#20 Corwin Vickers

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 631 posts
  • LocationChateau, Clan Wolf Occupation Zone

Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:51 PM

Is it really a punishment to get matched up against an equal force?

Are some people unclear on the concept?





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users