101 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I don't really care if a Raven wants to pack a PPC. so that's fine. This is much more about 50 tons and up.

[Darius Deadeye]

Odanan, on 02 April 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

I have a suggestion instead:

- first, "Large" hardpoints can mount "small" weapons.
- second, the "Large" or "Small" hardpoints are not necessarily based on the stock weapons, but in some planned design balancing.

So, the JagerMech could have 2 "Large" Ballistic, 4 "Small" Ballistic and 2 "Small" Energy hardpoints. The Catapult K2, in the other hand, would have 2 "Small" Ballistic hardpoints, 2 "Large" Energy and 2 "Small" hardpoints.
That way, variants would have more diversity but smaller mechs could have some their hardpoints as "Large" (to allow bigger weapons).

That sums up nicely the essence of what I wanted, yes. Of course some of the small mechs would have large hard points. That is the whole purpose of the hardpoint system - diversification. Small mechs might have the same hardpoints (so whats the point in choosing one over the other?), well one might have one large, one might have two small to that large, etc.

[Grondoval]

The Introduction of a Hardpoint-Based System would be the best thing that could happen in MWO. It would improve the game on so many levels.

PGI will have a HUGE problem with variety and viability in a couple of months when more mechs are in the game. As it stands now the Awesome is already at the brink of beeing useless. It would be otherwise of the Awesome would be the only chassis to mount 3 heavy energy weapons. It would make it really viable and useful.

It seems like PGI is going in the "unlimited customization" direction though. A HUGE mistake IMO. Image we have like 30 - 40 Mechs to choose. At least 5 - 10 Mechs would be useless. It will be even worse when the clans are ingame with their true omnimechs. I would just mount twin-gauss on every mech...

Edited by Grondoval, 02 April 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Its too late for this kind of system, too many people would quit, but I could see it work in special tournaments.

[Darius Deadeye]

MonkeyCheese, on 02 April 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Its too late for this kind of system, too many people would quit, but I could see it work in special tournaments.

I woulnd't say it's too late, game is still in beta. People didn't quit when ECM was introduced, though that was a pretty big gamechanger.

It caused a few months of uproar, but then people eased into it, expecting changes sooner or later.

The problem with ECM was that is was OP. The fix suggested in this thread would be implemented to diffuse the worst of the worst.

Other than the ones using ridicubuilds, who would we risk quitting? And would they really quit for having to diversify their weaponry?

Thing is, nobody really looses anything, we simply go from extremes to realisms, which in turn opens up a new (potentially better) world for all to customize-crazy in.

Edited by Darius Deadeye, 02 April 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

i was going to mention something like this because it's a great way forward; but stopped caring because PGI has proven it'll do what it does...

as for the defense of the current climate, just proves to me that in the end most mechwarrior players want to kill mechs in 1-2 hits...aka Quake with mechs.

[Darius Deadeye]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 02 April 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

i was going to mention something like this because it's a great way forward; but stopped caring because PGI has proven it'll do what it does...

as for the defense of the current climate, just proves to me that in the end most mechwarrior players want to kill mechs in 1-2 hits...aka Quake with mechs.

Which woulnd't be a big deal if we had respawns or the maps where 50vs50 or something on a grand scale like that. As it is now, matches are very often over, before they truly begin, and all too often I see the same chassis used with the exact same builds. To put it bluntly, why have 1.000.000 possibilites, if only 10 are viable.

Edited by Darius Deadeye, 02 April 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[dustd212]

I would like to see this kind of hardpoint concept... --> http://mwomercs.com/...effekt-for-mwo/

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Darius Deadeye, on 02 April 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

Which woulnd't be a big deal if we had respawns or the maps where 50vs50 or something on a grand scale like that. As it is now, matches are very often over, before they truly begin, and all too often I see the same chassis used with the exact same builds. To put it bluntly, why have 1.000.000 possibilites, if only 10 are viable.

at least to me it's a big deal, I don't want quake with mechs I want Rock'Em'Sock'Em robots...er with mechs
now if MWO was a full game I'd say why don't we have both? ergo have servers that cater to both.

[El Bandito]

OP has my support.

[Belorion]

<~ thinks we should get rid of hard points all together, and make it like TT. If it fits, you can equip it.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Belorion, on 02 April 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

<~ thinks we should get rid of hard points all together, and make it like TT. If it fits, you can equip it.

then the game might as well be reduced to:
-1 generic box mech that is upscaled per weight class....minus the weight class that sounds really familiar; the whole 1 generic hit box thing.

[Belorion]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 02 April 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

then the game might as well be reduced to:
-1 generic box mech that is upscaled per weight class....minus the weight class that sounds really familiar; the whole 1 generic hit box thing.

There is some overlap between the mechs, but they are also still unique. It would really be no different than the original Battletech.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Belorion, on 02 April 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

<~ thinks we should get rid of hard points all together, and make it like TT. If it fits, you can equip it.

I get what you are saying, but then it comes down to...pick the best weapon (there is always a best) and put as many as possible.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Belorion, on 02 April 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

There is some overlap between the mechs, but they are also still unique. It would really be no different than the original Battletech.

right, but what you propose washes out uniqueness. 'Every mech can mount anything' means that no mech is special; ergo the mech with the best hit box profile will be used no matter the loadout, thus any other less efficient mech will not be used.

end result: might as well just use 1 basic mech outline and scale it based on weight class. This would be a slight variation any old CoD/BF3/Quake system of hitboxes. Again, reinforcing my view that majority of players here just want Battletech flavored Quake.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 02 April 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

When one looks back to their own side of the fence, and not over at that other, greener side, the real issue with any such change is? It will actually, at all, make better, the perceived issue.

As noted already, and rightfully so. Change whatever, but remember that those who think that Boating, or that the full Alpha, is the ONLY way, will simply carry on under the new regime.

However, those that do like certain mixes, will find times where the "new" system gimps them, and then of course, there will be those who just don't like change, after a certain point.

So where does that leave us? Right back where we are currently. This idea that some how the Dev's, or any "great new (lol) idea", is going to somehow "PLEASE" everyone, is a fantasy so large that one can only marvel to think anyone really believes it is even remotely possible at all.

When CW arrives, and those interested in playing it, will soon discover that the Alpha Boats they love in the PUG queues, won't even see the enemy long enough to fire off more than perhaps 1. When the game gets "real" then so does the need for diversity. Hopefully that time grows nearer every day.

If you have never played MechWarrior under truly organized League setup, your in for both a rude awakening (diversity does in fact rule) and a treat (diversity does make the MechWarrior game a truly FUN and unique experience)

Let's tweak and refine what we have instead of making the round wheel square again.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 02 April 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

y'know, 'League Play' where my Raven ECM Narc-Boat tags people for my team's LRM boats which are covered by our Guass boats, and if the enemy tries to get in close, We have A\C20 boats*....god bless diversity.

*or LPLS / MLas boats if we can't pay for ammo today. League play won't really fix the fundemental problem of Boat Configs > diversified loadouts. All it does is coordinate boats, and who ever better coordinates wins...which I guess is fun but if people are still dying in 1-2 Alpha...well I can go play Hawken, which is better at that style than MWO.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 02 April 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

I don't see that happen. MWO allready is more limiting in terms of configuration then any Mechwarrior game before (safe MW1 maybe). I think its more realistic to expect the removal and/or addition of hardpoints on several chassis.

[John Norad]

AC, on 01 April 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

The hard points have needed a change for a long time. And by long, I mean EARLY closed beta.... People have brought up hard point changes before, but it falls on PGI's deaf ears mostly. And they need to listen because.....


Chassis are starting to become the same. When you can put any weapon size in the designated slot, it really makes some chassis pointless.
(..) Having slot size limitations would work wonders to give chassis unique characteristics again.

Yeah, this was totally predictable. I was one of those suggesting a sized hardpoint system.

p00k, on 01 April 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

no
i like being able to put large lasers where there were once medium lasers
i see no problem with putting an ac10 where there was once a uac5
i see nothing wrong with putting an lrm15 where there was an lrm10, etc etc

this is basically the same as the dozens of times someone has suggested that there be "big" and "little" hardpoints for each weapon type, only instead of calling it "big" and "little" you've called it "tech 1" and "tech 2". and why doing this is inane and capriciously arbitrary has also been mentioned in those dozens of threads, so i won't recapitulate them here.

I .. I .. I .. I ..

This "me, me and the gimme gimmes" attitude isn't very helpful for game balancing or feedback.

Since there is no exhaustive "how to engineer a battlemech" manual, all rules and designs are kinda "inane and capriciously arbitrary".
Also I much prefer inane and capriciously arbitrary game design if it achieves interesting, varied and balanced gameplay, compared to an absolutely logical, free or limitless approach that leads to a mess like the current state of MWO.

Apart from that there's no reason not to make exceptions or play around with the different mechs and variants.
And last but not least it all comes down to intelligent and creative game design decisions. It's one thing how good or viable a suggested concept really is, and another thing how well it is being implemented and how skillful the devs are.

There is enough room and possibilities to allow you to replace two medium lasers with a large laser or an ac5 with an ac10. Even on light mechs. Even with sized hardpoints.
It seems you are biased about that approach and all you can think of is a horrible way to implement it.

I can tell you, yes it can be done without messing up your fun

Personally I'd even go a step further and throw in ammo hardpoints, too. Just for kicks and giggles. And the ability to differentiate and balance mechs and variants even further.

Edited by John Norad, 02 April 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 02 April 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

y'know, 'League Play' where my Raven ECM Narc-Boat tags people for my team's LRM boats which are covered by our Guass boats, and if the enemy tries to get in close, We have A\C20 boats*....god bless diversity.

*or LPLS / MLas boats if we can't pay for ammo today. League play won't really fix the fundemental problem of Boat Configs > diversified loadouts. All it does is coordinate boats, and who ever better coordinates wins...which I guess is fun but if people are still dying in 1-2 Alpha...well I can go play Hawken, which is better at that style than MWO.

That's the spirit Aaron. Keep after it dude. It looks good on you.