96 replies to this topic

[Teralitha]

DaZur, on 03 April 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

Ya see this is the crux of the problem... The expectation of "each and every suggestion, comment and observation" to receive an exclusive acknowledgement and affirmation.

Not every suggestion is viable and worthy of consideration, not every comment requires discussion and not every observation requires due diligence. The expectation of PGI to have running dialogue for every utterance made by the community is ridiculous and pedantic.

... Not even mentioning the fact that anything mentioned by a PGI representative is scrutinized under a microscope, run through the panel of community experts and chiseled in stone as the word of God because... heaven forbid they be human and fallible.

No I just want to see more command chair responses concerning major issues. Seems we only get them once every other month. All the other interaction is from the IGP community reps, not devs.

[shotokan5]

My personal answer was none of the above. When I have questioned certain ideas, to the company direct through support, then yes a great deal of the time. They have people, as I said 6 months ago looking at each post. Yes , they do hear your voice and they do care though they do not always agree. But neither do we.

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

You do know that just because they do not do what whine about does not mean they don't listen. Plus what do you do when part of your community wants X but the other part wants Y. You can't have both and one is mutually exclusive of the other, so While they are trying to solve the riddle a new party shows up and throws in Z and mucks up everything.

Be a parent of 2 or more kids someday. You'll understand the problem better!

Being PGI is the equivalent of being a married man...

Their only hope of survival is to admit to being wrong even when hey are not, tell the community their arse doesn't look too big in the new dress and make sure to verbally "love" whatever the community chooses to cook.

Edited by DaZur, 03 April 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[AlexEss]

I think the OP got the wires for "listening" and "blind obedience" mixed.

Also listening 100 % is not really the same as hearing, acting upon and answering every little worry and grudge the community have,

I am fairly happy with the communication we have. One can always ask for more but that goes for anything good in life.

[Black Templar]

i don't know how PGI/IGP want to handle this matter, but to my mind they should fullfill their vision of this game first. we, the community, are here to give our opinions on their game and either take it as it is or vote with our feet and leave.
some people think that shouting out in the forums will make a difference, but you have to objectively address the relevant issues.... i am so sick of the whiny "DOOM!" threads out here. grow up already!

[Joseph Mallan]

DaZur, on 03 April 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

Being PGI is the equivalent of being a married man...

Their only hope of survival is to admit to being wrong even when hey are not, tell the community their arse doesn't look too big in the new dress and make sure to voerbally "love" whatever the community chooses to cook.

Your analogy is good!

[Roland]

I think pgi communicates with their player base far better than most companies.
Listening to us doesn't mean they just do what people on the forums say though. The vast majority of folks on the forum know nothing about how to make a game, or software. Lots don't even understand how the game currently works. Pgi shouldn't be doing what they say.

[HammerForge]

Do they listen, sure, but if you think they are going to bow to our will you are mistaken. Let's look at 3 major issues/concerns:
1) 3rd Person View - yes the vocal part of the community is against it, but lets say PGI/IGP has done some research and found that if they add it, it adds 10 million new possible players that won't play a game like this without it. Sure PGI has listened to us, but a majority of players probably don't care, a minority (the vocal ones) are against it, an even smaller group will leave if/when they implement, but you add a ton of possible users, seems obvious then what decision to make.

2) ECM - What to do with this one, every user seems to have a different idea, but most tend to think it is OP. Perhaps even the Devs think so, but maybe they wanted to get some fixes out there before they did anything to see how bad it really is? With performance improvements, state rewind and the fix to hit boxes on the RVN-3L, ECM is a lot less of an issue, is it still OP, maybe, but you certainly aren't invulnerable with it anymore, maybe now they are going to take a new look at it.

3) Consumables - There was such a outcry not only did they listen, they rethought the whole idea and how to implement, did they change the fact that they were coming out, no, but they did address the largest concerns of the community in it becoming P2W.

[Alois Hammer]

Helmer, on 02 April 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

Listening does not equate to agree with.

Nor does it rule out "Listen then ignore and proceed with own plans anyway."

[DaZur]

Roland, on 03 April 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

I think pgi communicates with their player base far better than most companies.

There was a time during CB and shortly there after where the PGI devs were pretty involved in community discussions (trolling) and generally were far more "visible"... Once OB hit the road running they had to withdrawal quite a bit lest they continued to be beat about the neck and face and they became far more selective with their community interactions.

I think a lot of community members were spoiled by the attention given early on and have no appreciation for the valid reasoning for being more reclusive.

Hand-holding was so OP and needed a nerf!

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 April 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Your analogy is good!

* Zur checks to make sure his wfe is not looking over his shoulder... *

I have 16 years of experience in such matters... and the physical and emotional scars to show for it.

[Stygian Steel]

[color=#959595]Some things are just hard limited. We often receive suggestions that are either unfeasible or impossible at this time. You really don't get to unlock the full blown anything is possible wish spell as a development wizard until you take some prestige levels in engine creation. The material components required and time prerequisites are also costly and significant.[/color]
[color=#959595]Niko, you are now my favorite dev for saying this line right here =)[/color]

[Helmer]

Teralitha, on 02 April 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

To agree or disagree with something means you have an opinion about it. Doesnt mean its the correct one, or deals with facts.

Agreed. Wether its informed opinion or not, on either side , is another subject.

Teralitha, on 02 April 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

If 100% of the player base agreed on something, but if 1 dev disagrees... thats the end of it. All of our feedback meant nothing.

Disagree.
Just like the forums, the Developers all have their own personal opinions. There are Developers who dislike ECM in it's current implementation. All those who post constructive feedback have contributed something. Even if, currently, nothing has been done. Again, just because feedback isn't implemented how the "majority of the forums" wish, has nothing to do with whether the Developers are"listening" or not.
So to say if even 1 Developer disagrees that's the end of it is High Drama at it's best.

Teralitha, on 02 April 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

That is the impression we have. After all that "listening" there ought to be more responding. Without reponses, we assume it was ignored.

How many times/ways would you like them to say that ECM is currently working as intended? People are going to assume whatever they want anyways. PGI could post everyday "we are listening , thanks for the feedback" and users will assume that it's ignored.
There are only a few Developers who can really "officially" comment on a given subject. Should they spend all their time responding to each individual? With this community I think (Hope) PGI understands how important it is to frame everything they say appropriately and carefully.

Personal opinion? I think ECM does waaaaaay too much for a 1.5 ton piece of equipment. I can appreciate and understand that they are trying to create an in-depth communication warfare and are wanting to implement more features (State roll back, EMP, and other upcoming) before addressing ECM. I just hope it is addressed before the official release and marketing push.

Alois Hammer, on 03 April 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Nor does it rule out "Listen then ignore and proceed with own plans anyway."

I would think this goes without saying. This is not design by committee. Any suggestions can be used/discarded as seen fit.
That being said, just because a suggestion is not used right away does not rule out feature being implemented later when bandwidth becomes available.




Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 03 April 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Roland]

pjnt, on 02 April 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

BTW, Bluten, dude. Liking you own posts is very tacky. You got like 3800 posts with 3200 likes. What happened, you not like 600 of your own posts?

OH SNAP

[Garth Erlam]

Texas Merc, on 02 April 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

this is general discussion and in general the game is almost unplayable for the majority I.E. lots o people mad about not being able to play robots

Just so I'm clear, that means >50% of all players of the game have an unplayable experience?

[Lyteros]

Garth Erlam, on 03 April 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Just so I'm clear, that means >50% of all players of the game have an unplayable experience?

Well what does your statistic says about player numbers change since patch, number of disconnects per game and number of crashes (no Idea if you sent those to the server though)

[Garth Erlam]

Player numbers skyrocketed as they do every patch. More CTD's, more HUD issues, less FPS drop comments, I think. We're working on the 'disco ball/blackscreen' error, but frankly no-one can repro it over here. So we need to do the usual stress tests till we find the culprit.

[Roland]

Garth, aren't you seeing some weird stuff going on with the servers too?

I've had a bunch of games so far where the game doesn't seem to end correctly, and mechs end up being locked up in the match for a long time.. and when they come out, it's as if the match didn't actually happen. No XP... even consumables used during the match are replenished. That'd indicate that the server itself barfed in trying to run the game.

[Bishop Steiner]

Garth Erlam, on 03 April 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Player numbers skyrocketed as they do every patch. More CTD's, more HUD issues, less FPS drop comments, I think. We're working on the 'disco ball/blackscreen' error, but frankly no-one can repro it over here. So we need to do the usual stress tests till we find the culprit.

Have had some buggy behavior, mostly of low FPS and CTD variety, which I haven't really experienced since January. I did install the latest nvidia drivers, 314 for my computer, will retry now.

[BlueSanta]

Garth Erlam, on 03 April 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Player numbers skyrocketed as they do every patch. More CTD's, more HUD issues, less FPS drop comments, I think. We're working on the 'disco ball/blackscreen' error, but frankly no-one can repro it over here. So we need to do the usual stress tests till we find the culprit.

The fact that you can't reproduce the bugs that a lot of people are experiencing is concerning to me. I mean, launch is in six months and something like this happens. Just kinda disappointing, I guess. The game is currently unplayable for me.