102 replies to this topic

[Wolf Clearwater]

The raven 2x and 4x really need a buff of some sort. Slower than other light mechs, less hard points than a Jenner, at least the Spiders have good jumping and a small profile! So what do these two Raven variants do? Die mostly. At least give them a top engine cap like the 3L or Jenner! Or better yet, switch the max engine size of the 3L and the 2x/4x. Or maybe an extra missile hard point where the SRM6 is, the Commando 1D has 2 hard points for a single SRM6, so it is not unprecedented. I am not saying they need a complete overhaul, just a little something. C'mon PGI, throw us Raven fans something other than the 3L!

[Stoicblitzer]

the 3L needs a nerf not the other way around.

[Joseph Mallan]

The 2X can stand alone quite nicely. 4X didn't work well for me though.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Stoicblitzer, on 03 April 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

the 3L needs a nerf not the other way around.

The only reason the 3L is ridiculously op is because of ECM/SSRM combo. Before that, everyone complained about how op Jenners were....

[jay35]

Stoicblitzer, on 03 April 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

the 3L needs a nerf not the other way around.

This. The 3L is still a beast, especially in groups, and especially since the matchmaker doesn't account properly for ECM Lights. If,as often happens, one team has multiple 3Ls that can work together, and the other team gets non-ECM Lights courtesy of the matchmaker, you might as well just give up. The 3Ls will take out the enemy lights very quickly and then move on to the bigger prey.

[FrostCollar]

The 4X doesn't need a buff so much as Machine Guns need a buff. If they were a viable weapon the 4X could do quite nicely. Inversely, if MGs are not buffed there's not a lot that can be done to save the 4X, a mech that has a distinguishing feature, 2 ballistic hardpoints, that can only be used with MGs (well, or 2 AC2s, but that build is not very capable at anything).

The 2X needs a bit of a buff because of its current lack of distinguishing features compared to the Jenner. Maybe its engine cap could be increased, or alternately perhaps it could equip more armor than other Raven variants (already the case for the stock configurations). Still, the 2X isn't that bad in the grand scheme of bad mechs.

Edited by FrostCollar, 03 April 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Alphawolf]

You bunch of whiney babies!!!!!! None of the damn Ravens need a buff. Learn to play with what you have. I leveled all my Ravens before ECM was even in open beta.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Alphawolf, on 03 April 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

You bunch of whiney babies!!!!!! None of the damn Ravens need a buff. Learn to play with what you have. I leveled all my Ravens before ECM was even in open beta.

So did I. The point wasn't whining, just that they could use a little help. Did you read the OP?

[Redwo1f]

I am having fun with both and both are 2 of my most successful mechs. Play to the strength of your build and try to minimize weaknesses...and for godsake, don't take out the JJ's off the 4x (it's a real benefit to that particular variant).

[GrabbleRus]

2X and 4X are wheelchairs, not mechs. And not because of the ECM, but because of 245 max engine rating compared to 295 3L

[FrostCollar]

Alphawolf, on 03 April 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

You bunch of whiney babies!!!!!! None of the damn Ravens need a buff. Learn to play with what you have. I leveled all my Ravens before ECM was even in open beta.

Wolf87535, on 03 April 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

So did I. The point wasn't whining, just that they could use a little help. Did you read the OP?

Indeed, I leveled them before ECM as well. We can play with what we have, but that doesn't mean that we must be blind to current balance issues too

[Cymbaline]

I have been playing with Ravens since I started the game in November. I used to be the only Raven player when I first started now they're everywhere.

The 3L is a great mech, it dances and flows like water. It's extremely powerful and even after the hitbox changes and streak damage reduction it is still the best light mech in the game. I have been using the 2X for awhile now though, it's more of a challenge without ECM, streaks, and a large engine. I still do well in the 2X but not as well as the 3L by a good margin.

The new hitbox changes have made it a lot easier to leg Ravens. The 2X and 4X are the ones feeling this change the most though since they are slower than the 3L and unable to maneuver as quickly to evade large alpha strikes to their legs. I think it would be fair to increase the 2X's and 4X's maximum engine size to the 265. That way they're still slower and less maneuverable than a 3L but not as easy to leg.

I'm still fine playing the 2X with the 245 engine so I won't complain if nothing happens. But as bigger and more powerful mechs are released these two variants will become even more obsolete.

[topgun505]

Remove ECM from the 3L and give it to the 4x, and increase the engine cap on the 2x.

[Deathlike]

Raise the minimum engine level to at least 250 (from 245), and that would be enough for me. MGs on the other hand... hopeless.

[Vassago Rain]

Better small ballistics. Problem solved.

But we got crit-seeking instead. Problem not solved. Will never be solved. 3L 4 lyfe.

[Trauglodyte]

Wolf87535, on 03 April 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

The raven 2x and 4x really need a buff of some sort. Slower than other light mechs, less hard points than a Jenner, at least the Spiders have good jumping and a small profile! So what do these two Raven variants do? Die mostly. At least give them a top engine cap like the 3L or Jenner! Or better yet, switch the max engine size of the 3L and the 2x/4x. Or maybe an extra missile hard point where the SRM6 is, the Commando 1D has 2 hard points for a single SRM6, so it is not unprecedented. I am not saying they need a complete overhaul, just a little something. C'mon PGI, throw us Raven fans something other than the 3L!

The 2X (Davion mockup based on captured Liao models) and the 4X (a Liao prototype moving away from EW and more into a Light Striker) were the prototypes and, therefore, weren't outfitted properly. They were based on the original prototype, the 1X, and all carried an Omni 175 standard engine for a speed of 86 kph. The 3L was the actual production model that took advantage of the Grey Death Memory Core and upgraded the engine to the 210 XL. Because of this, there is supposed to be a speed difference between the non-production models and the actual EW based 3L. That the prototypes fail so hard is disheartening but it has more to do with the combo of ECM+Streaks then it does with the speed of the X models.

[Alistair Winter]

This thread includes the typical flawed arguments usually brought up in a discussion about Ravens and other light mechs.

"The problem isn't that the Raven 2X, Raven 4X or other light mechs need a buff. It's the Raven 3L that needs to be nerfed."
This is obviously wrong. In a given Assault PUG match, you're not likely to see more than one light mech on each team, if that. In conquest, the number is somewhat higher, but ultimately, regardless of the game mode, light mechs just can't do as much damage as heavier mechs or get as many kills. And whatever their other functions (aka "But but light mechs are supposed to scout and spot targets and so much more"), the team usually does fine without them. If you get a Raven 4X on your team, you know he's not likely to be a huge help.

"The Raven 2X and 4X are fine, I do very well with them."
Well, then you're not representative of the majority of players. A select few players can do well with any mech, but most players don't do well with those Ravens. Saying that the majority of players in this game should "learn to play" isn't constructive. If a certain mech underperforms on average, it needs a buff.

[Deathlike]

I see the Raven 2X/4X at the moment as the "intentional fail platform" to get to the 3L... which although is not really balanced, I can understand the mentality. However, making them slow anchors (with the 245 engine limit) makes them not competitive to other light mechs. I'm thinking an engine boost to 255 is enough (255XL has the same tonnage as the 250XL).

Lights need speed to live, but crippling a light mech's speed is definitely not the way to go.. unless it can be heavily armored or weaponized.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Alistair Winter and Deathlike, I think you said exactly what I was trying to get at. These mechs do not need a massive overhaul or to become 3L copies, but they do need a little something. An upgrade to max 255 engine would be great, I still think an additional missile hardpoint where the SRM6 is would go a long way without making the 2x or 4x overpowered. 2 SRM6 would fire in 2 volleys, so its not exactly a gargantuan buff. Both of those would put the 2x and 4x into a nice little spot where they are a little closer to the other lights for playability.

[Ph30nix]

its not the mechs that have a problem, its the equipment and weapons they are stuck using. my 2x isnt so bad and gives some more intersting weapons options then the 3L, sadly the 4x though is just a pathetic knock off of the 3L.

But as was stated before if MG's were more viable or if they had another ballistic that was viable on the lights it would be great.

the speed on them sucks but cant do much about that.