102 replies to this topic

[Ice Hellion]

All i can say is that i was so happy to finally be done with those basic's for leveling my elite.

[Smeghead87]

I think the 4X would be about where it needs to be if we had worthwhile machineguns. That way you could make a more balanced build without dropping heavy weight into ballistics or ingoring them completely in favour of larger energy weapons.

As for the 2X, at the very least it needs to be the variant with 3 module slots.
This was given to the 3L for some reason on top of its faster speed and ECM capability. Even then I'd still feel like something was missing from the 2X to make up for its lack of jump jets or ECM but I guess not all mechs are created equal.

An argument could be made for a speed boost for both too, to bring them on par with the jenners as fast combat mechs.

[Hayashi]

Stoicblitzer, on 03 April 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

the 3L needs a nerf not the other way around.

Pretty much.

If you think the 2X and 4X are bad, try running the COM-3A and SDR-5K.

Now if you were to argue for buffing them together with the other 2 RVN types, that would be a more fair argument.

On that note the JR7-K is also inferior in every way to the JR7-D.

Edited by Hayashi, 03 April 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[Kmieciu]

3L is the "heaviest" light mech, it can use ECM and reach maximum possible speed currently in game. With the speed being the same, It's all about who takes more guns and amor. 25 and 30-toners will always be at a disadvantage if they cannot outrun a 35-tonner. When they introduce the Flea without removing the speed cap, it will have the same speed as a mech roughly twice it's weight. And that makes it dead on arrival.

Since the Devs cannot remove the speed cap, the only option is to further restrict the engines, so that a Commando is the fastest light mech, Raven and Jenner are the slowest, and a Spider sits in between.

Edited by Kmieciu, 04 April 2013 - 12:01 AM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Wolf87535, on 03 April 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

The raven 2x and 4x really need a buff of some sort. Slower than other light mechs, less hard points than a Jenner, at least the Spiders have good jumping and a small profile! So what do these two Raven variants do? Die mostly. At least give them a top engine cap like the 3L or Jenner! Or better yet, switch the max engine size of the 3L and the 2x/4x. Or maybe an extra missile hard point where the SRM6 is, the Commando 1D has 2 hard points for a single SRM6, so it is not unprecedented. I am not saying they need a complete overhaul, just a little something. C'mon PGI, throw us Raven fans something other than the 3L!

I would prefer if the Raven 3L had its speed lowered.

[Adrienne Vorton]

xhrit, on 03 April 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I guess that makes me one of the best players alive, since I can score 5 kills and most damage on the winning team in a mech that is more or less cannon fodder.

maybe you are but really, 5 kills are good, great job... but top 1 with about 500 damage is something you can do with most mechs... i did about 550 with my rvn2x with 7!!! alpha damage...(ac2 harassment sniper^^)

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 04 April 2013 - 12:30 AM.

[Han Turaya]

2x/4x are too slow to scout and too light to skirmish. Not asking to OP the two, just give them an edge to be on par. Though i admit piloting 3L is damn satisfying, lowering it's engine rating would be fair.

[Ens]

Lykaon, on 03 April 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

4 energy hardpoints the Raven 3L has 3 so Jenner has superior energy hardpoints
2 missile hardpoints same as the Raven 3L
Jenner can mount a larger 300 engine so it's faster than a Raven 3L
Jenner gets Jumpjets the Raven 3L does not
So with this compareson the one thing that stands out is ECM.
The Raven 3L gets ECM the Jenner D does not.
Is it the Raven that needs a nerf or the ECM? if both the Jenner and Raven had access to ECM would you be even thinking about Raven 3Ls?

comparing numbers only means nothing in that case






see?

Engine sizes....wow.... we´re talking about ~1 kph more or less
One more energy hardpoint.... really?

any good jenner pilot would use only one JJ in his jenner because of a slight advantage in maneuverability....otherwise you have to gimp it in terms of weapons or heat sinks.... and there i no logical reason for using less than a 300xl engine in a jenner, period.

fact is:

in a jenner, you´re one running center torso... the chance to get killed by a side torso destroyed is next to nothing...
when you´re on the run from ravens, you even get streaks to frontal center torso ( from behind! ), because its so big

ecm is not a big deal after all, i would always use normal srms instead of streaks becaus of the more potential dmg....but this will only apply for me when the state rewind for missile weapons happened


unless the ravens hitboxes get "nerfed" in any way... or at least the engine rating will get switched with his both brothers ( 2X and 4X ) so he can´t run at 150kph, the 3L will be THE superior light mech as always

[shintakie]

Give them a bigger engine cap and fix the friggin MG to actually do somethin not worthless. You've now made the 2X and 4X not useless.

[aniviron]

Ens, on 04 April 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

any good jenner pilot would use only one JJ in his jenner because of a slight advantage in maneuverability....otherwise you have to gimp it in terms of weapons or heat sinks.... and there i no logical reason for using less than a 300xl engine in a jenner, period.

Not gonna argue with the rest of your post, but the upgrade to 300 over 295 is pretty significant given how in-engine heatsinks are calculated. Not only does it mean you get an additional heat sink in the engine, but that heat sink takes up no crits (instead of the three on an out-of-engine sink) and soaks 2x heat instead of an external heatsink's 1.4.

[Deathlike]

aniviron, on 04 April 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Not gonna argue with the rest of your post, but the upgrade to 300 over 295 is pretty significant given how in-engine heatsinks are calculated. Not only does it mean you get an additional heat sink in the engine, but that heat sink takes up no crits (instead of the three on an out-of-engine sink) and soaks 2x heat instead of an external heatsink's 1.4.

Actually.. that's not entirely correct.

The "add on" internal HS slots still use the external HS value. The only difference is that it doesn't use slots.

The only outside oddity is that if you "destroy the engine" crits while having one add-on HS in the internal engine slots, that can be destroyed.

[Buckminster]

Comparing a 35 ton mech to a 20 ton mech doesn't work. If you are going to compare them, do it to a similar mech - the Jenner.

Honestly, I'd be happy if they bumped the engine limit from 245 to 250. Just enough for that 10th heat sink...

I've been playing my 4X and my 2X a lot lately, and they just aren't as good as my 3L. Although I do think that part of that is a matter of my piloting - try and drive a 125kph 4X like a 140kph 3L with ECM, and of course it won't work out well.

[Asakara]

Garth Erlam, on 03 April 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Wolf87535, I think you will be happy in a patch or two.

I am guessing it will be the "or two" patch? As there did not seem to be any changes to the 2X and 4X with the patch on the 16th.

[Lee Ving]

Wolf87535, on 03 April 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

At least give them a top engine cap like the 3L or Jenner! Or better yet, switch the max engine size of the 3L and the 2x/4x.

FTFY.

I agree they need a buff, I do not agree that we need to nerf another chassis to do that. ECM is already no longer Angel ECM, and just Guardian as it should be.

[stjobe]

Lee Ving, on 18 April 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

ECM is already no longer Angel ECM, and just Guardian as it should be.

ECM no longer prohibits missile lock? Damn, I missed that.

FYI: "Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal."

Angel ECM Suite: "Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles."

Stealth Armor/Null Signature System: Reduces detection ranges (another thing the Guardian ECM shouldn't do).

[Buckminster]

stjobe, on 18 April 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Angel ECM Suite: "Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles."

This is my biggest gripe with ECM. I should still be able to dumbfire my streaks.

[No Guts No Glory]

Switch the Max engine size of the 3L with the 2x/4x. Done.

[EvilCow]

An extra missile slot would not unbalance them, the Jenners and the 3L would still be better.

Making SSRMs not lock with ECM in disrupt mode would fix everything, I would give the SSRMs a dumb firing mode to balance it out.

Edited by EvilCow, 18 April 2013 - 11:55 AM.

[Buckminster]

No Guts No Glory, on 18 April 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Switch the Max engine size of the 3L with the 2x/4x. Done.

So should we slow down the ECM Commando, Cicada and Atlas while we're at it?

[Jonathan Paine]

Compared to most spider and commando chassis, the Ravens do just fine. Buffing them is pointless. Kill the streak ECM combo, draw a sigh of relief. Functional MG would help too.

Edited by Jonathan Paine, 18 April 2013 - 12:00 PM.