1089 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Sybreed, on 03 April 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

JUST REMEMBERED SOMETHING

Did the devs forget about the 8-man team they faced that consisted only of 3Ls and D-DCs? I think they wanted to prove a point...

More of this and then some would be nice.

[hammerreborn]

DocBach, on 03 April 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

I'm almost speechless but I can't say I'm surprised.

ECM might be where you want it to be, but if you look at the player base it's nowhere near what we as paying customers want!

...unless you are Hammerreborn. You've made one dude happy and thousands more disappointed.

And I am very happy. Great changes and I'm glad the devs didn't succumb to the QQ of people who can't adapt.

Sybreed, on 03 April 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

JUST REMEMBERED SOMETHING

Did the devs forget about the 8-man team they faced that consisted only of 3Ls and D-DCs? I think they wanted to prove a point...

Did the players forget about the other 5 or so teams they lost to that weren't just 3Ls and D-DCs?

Edited by hammerreborn, 03 April 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[DocBach]

hammerreborn, on 03 April 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

And I am very happy. Great changes and I'm glad the devs didn't succumb to the QQ of people who can't adapt.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Yes, that's right, I don't like unbalanced mechanics because I "can't adapt...."

What I can't adapt to is opening my wallet any further for a game where my choices of gameplay are goaded into either taking ECM or loading up with PPCs because that is the only viable options if I want to be truly competitive. I don't want to adapt if that means I am locked in to a game which is the same shallow strategies over and over and over again because this one magic item that is toted to add so much diversity to the game actually does the complete opposite.

Edited by DocBach, 03 April 2013 - 06:30 PM.

[Vapor Trail]

DocBach, on 03 April 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

Wait, you mean a weapon system that weighs almost four times as much as a passive system, requires accuracy to use, and generates some of the highest heat in the game isn't a proper counter for a system that just needs to be installed to completely cripple radar, communications, and missile weapons?

Don't forget the heat sinks.

For a single PPC to counter ECM full time it must fire once every four seconds. (Technically slightly faster, but four is round).

This means that you MUST carry 27 single heat sink equivalents to counter the heat buildup by the PPC.

So... the "counter" weighs in at about sixteen times the system to be "countered" if you're using singles as well as 10 engine sinks..

[Marcus Tanner]

I don't know about you guys, but I've never seen my PPCs tell me that the other team is doing a stealth base-cap.

[Ghogiel]

What was it I have been saying all along with ECM.. oh yeah, learn to play because they aren't going to change it.

[Noth]

Ghogiel, on 03 April 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

What was it I have been saying all along with ECM.. oh yeah, learn to play because they aren't going to change it.

People have learned to play against it. that is not the issue. teh issue is that it actually removes the variety they say it promotes.

[DocBach]

Ghogiel, on 03 April 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

What was it I have been saying all along with ECM.. oh yeah, learn to play because they aren't going to change it.

Learning to play with a ****** up and broken mechanic doesn't mean I have to like playing it that way. I am the consumer; it is not my job to like content put out by the company, it is their job to satisfy me enough to pay them money.

As it stands, with the completely shallow role warfare, nonexistent community warfare, continual reversal of their promises, ignoring the community, and inability to fix bugs and balances, I am completely unsatisfied and won't be paying any more money into this game. I've already dropped my play time immensely; since the stats were implemented I have five hours in this game. I spend exponentially more time in the forums hoping there will be some kind of change so I can enjoy the game again, but I think I need to take your advice, learn my lesson, and play a better game.

Edited by DocBach, 03 April 2013 - 06:46 PM.

[Nauht]

I see nothing wrong here.

A skill-less counter to skill-less weapon systems.

Now you're gonna have to learn how to shoot and lead fire.

[The Cheese]

I'm fine with the existing abilities of ECM and the changes that have been noted, but it still doesn't (won't) carry enough of a downside to offset those abilities.

There needs to be a reason to not carry it, or the variants that can't will still be shelved for everything aside from xp grinding.

[XIRUSPHERE]

No mention of ECM+streaks which is utterly broken. No mention of the fact that guardian ECM does the job of 3 separate pieces of electronic warfare. It is bar none the most massive advantage you can put on a mech for such a paltry 1.5 tons. As long as it continues to function as a 3 in 1 piece of electronic warfare with zero drawbacks it is not balanced at all.

I continue to be amazed that the guys who built this game think blowing smoke up peoples rear ends is a viable form of community interaction.

[kuangmk11]

Sybreed, on 03 April 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

JUST REMEMBERED SOMETHING

Did the devs forget about the 8-man team they faced that consisted only of 3Ls and D-DCs? I think they wanted to prove a point...

The D-DC is no longer a problem but i suggest everyone pilot nothing but COM-2D and RVN-3L until they fix them. I don't even have either of them because I swore not to be part of the problem, but I will buy them to make a point.

Personally, I think streaks themselves are fine, its the combo ECM + streak combo. Move the ECM to the weakest variant with no streaks, canon be damned (or make the ECM function as canon). or just make ECM prevent the user from locking missles. its simple.

[xZaOx]

I think its fine where it is. People complain too much. Its rock, paper, scissors. You can have everything equal or its boring. Bring ECM to counter ecm. Bring ppc's, or just damage it till ECM is destroyed. Stop being babies.

[Karr285]

the “Advanced Sensor Range” module allows you to get a lock on an ECM Mech at a longer distance and S-SRMs/LRMs can be fired in a larger window than before.

how is this a Counter to ECM????? so 25% so instead of 180-200 you get 180-250 to lock on to a mech that moves 150Km/h or 41meters/sec will take 2 seconds to close the gap from 180-250.... you cant even target lock and shoot in 2 seconds so where is the counter part of this?

with LRMS this is definatly usless as the flight time the mech wil have closed to 180 and streaks if you manage 1 volley its just 1 volley...

Edited by Karr285, 03 April 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[Noth]

xZaOx, on 03 April 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

I think its fine where it is. People complain too much. Its rock, paper, scissors. You can have everything equal or its boring. Bring ECM to counter ecm. Bring ppc's, or just damage it till ECM is destroyed. Stop being babies.

It's rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock, except spock hard counters rock, paper, lizard and spock. Scissors only counters spock if it can be thrown in unison with any additional players.

In short it is nothing like rock paper scissors because that implies that things hard counter each other. What we have here is one thing hard countering many things, and then very few things soft countering the hard counter under specific circumstances. It is a horrible balance.

Edited by Noth, 03 April 2013 - 07:10 PM.

[Team Leader]

This is.. extremely disappointing...

[Lootee]

So are mechs that come with LRMs going to get a free energy hard point or built-in TAG any time soon? Since they are forced to carry a TAG otherwise the 15-30 tons worth of missiles they carry are completely useless?

ECM in this game does far more than any piece of tech of any weight/size from any technology base does in TT. ECM here actually STEALS WEAPONS AND TONNAGE off opposing mechs. Because LRM support mechs are forced to carry a TAG or PPC to perform their basic function they are effectively undergunned due to the loss of an energy hard point and the tonnage associated. And the CPLT-A1 with 0 energy hard points is still in its sorry state of exactly 1 viable build, that is if the recent SRM nerfs haven't made it a 0 viable build mech.

The only way I would be satisified with leaving ECM this way is if LRM mechs automatically get a self-TAG that only allows the mech's own missiles to lock onto a cloaked mech, or if mechs that have LRMs in their basic configuration get 1 extra energy hard point.

[Ghogiel]

DocBach, on 03 April 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Learning to play with a ****** up and broken mechanic doesn't mean I have to like playing it that way. I am the consumer; it is not my job to like content put out by the company, it is their job to satisfy me enough to pay them money.

As it stands, with the completely shallow role warfare, nonexistent community warfare, continual reversal of their promises, ignoring the community, and inability to fix bugs and balances, I am completely unsatisfied and won't be paying any more money into this game. I've already dropped my play time immensely; since the stats were implemented I have five hours in this game. I spend exponentially more time in the forums hoping there will be some kind of change so I can enjoy the game again, but I think I need to take your advice, learn my lesson, and play a better game.

I'll wait for your proof that ECM is broken.

[Noth]

Ghogiel, on 03 April 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

I'll wait for your proof that ECM is broken.

The fact that any mech that can mount it does without any hesitation or thought of replacing it with something else. If it was available to all mechs, pretty much every single mech in the game would run them. There would of course be outliers that wouldn't, but still the vast majority would.

[Deathlike]

I get the strong feeling here that ECM is supposed to make a mech "preferable" to use in the end... for the meta-game.

It still doesn't factor in that the non-ECM light variants simply cannot be competitive... outside of the Jenner.

I remember someone had some really nice idea for PPCs to completely disable ECM until the mech shut down. This is an awesome idea IMO... because it does a few things:

1) A light mech has a far better chance to "disengage" with the enemy due to its natural speed. Forcing it to "lose" its natural ECM barrier by fleeing can have a positive effect.. and if it doesn't choose to disengage, well, streaks ahoy!

2) An slow mech, like the ECM Atlases, it doesn't change their meta-game that much. Shutting down in combat as a bigger mech has lesser consequences (unless someone is watching). So, it's not that big a deal there.

The "temporary" disabling effect has very little impact as it requires a mech to have streaks and a minimum of 2 ppcs to keep firing at the enemy. I had expected a lot of PPC+Streak combos when the disruption effect was first instituted.... and it's come true for the most part.

PPCs+LRMs are still unusable in the current form, but technically they can be more useful in my proposed change. Since the light mech's ECM is disabled, it has a much more viable chance to get off an LRM to respond. It's not perfect mind you, but 4 seconds is simply not enough to make LRMs useful... forcing a light mech to get cover and shutdown can be a lot harder when the cloaking effect is disabled... especially on Alpine. The current system allows light mechs to "shrug the PPC effect" off of them... which isn't really a good enough solution at all.