1089 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

Peiper, on 07 April 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

I doubt they'll see much of anything. It will all be hidden with an area cloaking device.

Turns out, they released in February like they predicted.. we just haven't tried playing MWO 180 meters from our computers...

[MasterBLB]

Guys,it's pointless to say anything more.All worth mentioning has already been told (ex this)

The main problem is PGI guys,though they started to ask us about opinions,have to learn to take it into consideration even if it is against their intentions.Also,they have to learn not to swear blind the reality (,just priceless) that "all is working as intended" and "ECM brought more tactics into game(that's just priceless)" while community's feedback says something opposite.And from what I can see their attitude they have a long way ahead...

So till they'll learn,we community have to stay strong and as manifestation of our dissatisfaction we should not to buy any MCs.

[Xigunder Blue]

Look guys, they have already decided what they are going to do. The forums are much like the system used by companies like banks where first you get a robotic response that tells you nothing and then a low level 'buffer' employee that reads company line from a preformat card. This is the way companies keep executives from having to deal with customers directly. Executives use 'news conferences' to proclaim their utmost devotion and 'I feel your pain' attention. The executives at PGI have already made up their minds how this game will be developed, an arena FPS slow console game, and I am afraid we are just the noisy protesters outside, unable to actually get inside. I am posting here because, like any protestor, there is no other way. We simply have to wait and see. ECM could be made single mech only, not AOE, then most problems disappear. That won't happen so we have it 'like they want it'. End of story, and post.

[Vapor Trail]

Don't know about anyone else, but I saw more varied tactics in use before the introduction of ECM.

Sure, most matches opened with a long range sparring match, but there were many variations to that. And occasionally there was even a wide flank strike to open.

Now what I see is matches that open with a long range sparring match that generally goes one of a few ways. A group of heavies and assaults (usually centered on multiple DDCs), sometimes supported by a poptart or two, generally goes "hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle" and basically tries to steamroll everything in their path. Then there's the "we're gonna defend this patch of ground," where most of, if not the entire, team just sets up shop with a DDC or two, in a depression or behind a hill and focus fires everything that crests, while poptarts harrass and keep tabs on whats on the other side of the hill. Then there's the end run by a group of ECM lights that catches any mech in isolation and chews their ankles off one at a time.

And there's always the stealth cap tactic. Basically the team is 75% engine, regardless of class, and has just enough ECM to get the entire team to the enemy base without being easily spotted. But in this case there's no long range sparring match. The teams are lucky if anyone actually sees an enemy, let alone does any damage,

[hammerreborn]

Vapor Trail, on 08 April 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Don't know about anyone else, but I saw more varied tactics in use before the introduction of ECM.

Sure, most matches opened with a long range sparring match, but there were many variations to that. And occasionally there was even a wide flank strike to open.

Now what I see is matches that open with a long range sparring match that generally goes one of a few ways. A group of heavies and assaults (usually centered on multiple DDCs), sometimes supported by a poptart or two, generally goes "hey diddle diddle, straight up the middle" and basically tries to steamroll everything in their path. Then there's the "we're gonna defend this patch of ground," where most of, if not the entire, team just sets up shop with a DDC or two, in a depression or behind a hill and focus fires everything that crests, while poptarts harrass and keep tabs on whats on the other side of the hill. Then there's the end run by a group of ECM lights that catches any mech in isolation and chews their ankles off one at a time.

And there's always the stealth cap tactic. Basically the team is 75% engine, regardless of class, and has just enough ECM to get the entire team to the enemy base without being easily spotted. But in this case there's no long range sparring match. The teams are lucky if anyone actually sees an enemy, let alone does any damage,

The first example is directly related to the 2nd.

Have you even read these forums? Most people would love to see people get instantly banned for daring to capture the base, even in conquest. And you wonder why these same people are just stomping into the middle saying "fight me noobs" in assaults?

It has nothing to do with ECM and everything to do with mouthbreathers who can't figure out how to defend a base.

[Peiper]

Xigunder Blue, on 08 April 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

. ECM could be made single mech only, not AOE, then most problems disappear.

+1

[Valaska]

I've been driven out of the game due to ECM to be honest, **************. ************ Russ going "It's loved by everyone in MWO and working as intended!!"

• The cost of carrying an ECM unit as opposed to not is insurmountable, as already stated there is absolutely no reason to try and save the weight/crit slots and take -any- other support system in the game. This is... Horrifyingly short sighted by the dev team, I don't know how it got past the design stage, even in a beta!
  
• It limits team building and customization. This has ground 8v8 matches to whom can bring the most ECM, with the most allotted firepower. You see entire teams of Atlas', or the odd few Raven's in the mix. A Battletech/Mechwarrior game should never be comprised mainly of the same two mechs.
  
• On team work, communication and movements have become irrelevant, as you want as much ECM as you possibly can have concentrated in one small area, which promotes moving as one giant blob force. Flanking and diversions have become extremely moot, with scouts being the only useful troop movement aside from blobbing.
  
• I'm not heavy on missiles, I use one SSRM on my mech's typically to swat at lights and make them back down, or I will put one LRM system on (a 10 usually) in order to support. I've had no reason to splice one system into my build now, as I am forced to rely solely on my direct fire weapons... Which, admittedly, yes make up 90% of my weapons, but I like having the option to actually use missiles. They are pretty, and in some situations when everything else has been ripped off your mech, can keep you in the fight from long range, or well just suicide rush with SSRM I guess.

So these are my problems with ECM, suggestions I have are;

• The division of ECM's functions unto 2 units, of which you can only take one of on the entire mech, up its crits to 3, and throw its health to nearly nothing, allow splash crits on it. Tonnage could go up as well, but not part of my suggestion.
  
• ECM should -never- break LOS locks, this is ridiculous, if a mech see's it outside of the 180m bubble, it should be able to lock it and view paper doll, launch missiles, what have you. Though once inside the 180m bubble, I could see it breaking lock, as that's a pretty decently close range, and makes ECM semi situational.
  
• Allow ECM to break friendly shared locks, so if a friend targets something for you, ECM on that mech, or a mech being in that ECM's 180meter sphere cannot be engaged except from direct LOS. As soon as a mech looses this LOS, it is instantly cut off (no more back behind a hill and launch 4 lrm 15's at someone)
  
• ECM should break TAG/Artemis IV accuracy bonuses, instead of force the use of TAG, delegate it to some canonicity as an advanced systems counter. Though NARC's require a lock and are short ranged so just leave them alone with their bonuses.
  
• Should cost -much- more, and should cost at least 50% of their base cost in repairs, this is supposed to be a VERY advanced piece of equipment which is VERY rare, it should be costly to equip and to run with in the event you do die with it.

The only other suggestion I'll give is to actually tweak ECM, it is the problem and it needs to be fixed, nothing else right now needs tweaking in relation to ECM, just before ECM came out there was a sweet spot where LRM boats were down, and mixed forced combat was way up. It was beautiful and I was spending money like an 80 year old on the Las Vegas strip, and I had eight friends playing this game whom were previously unrelated to Mechwarrior/Battletech in any way (a lot more still in). I don't know any of my friends who still actually play MWO save a couple old BTech'ers clinging on for dear life, though I get random complaint messages still.



If you must tweak anything else in relation to ECM, make modules that will counter ECM but cannot disrupt anyone, requiring no tonnage or crits, just a module that counters ECM, and stop with the stacking.


(This is a copy paste that I posted in their suggestion thread, edited it a little bit.)

Edited by Valaska, 08 April 2013 - 10:33 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Quote

• The cost of carrying an ECM unit as opposed to not is insurmountable, as already stated there is absolutely no reason to try and save the weight/crit slots and take -any- other support system in the game. This is... Horrifyingly short sighted by the dev team, I don't know how it got past the design stage, even in a beta!

Because none of the ECM mechs have anything to sacrifice to take ECM. Every light in the game has a couple tons of free play, for ammo, ecm, bap, or a few extra heat sinks. Because of engine restrictions. And an Atlas has more than enough room to fit it in there because its not even 2% of it's total weight.

The best way to make ECM a choice rather than a guarentee is to remove the weight based engine limit. Ravens, spiders, cicadas, and commandos now either downgrade their engine, lose weapons, or lose the ECM. They no longer can have all 3 without a single sacrifice to be made.

It also removes the end all be all power of streaks when your opponent can out run/manuever you.

Also streaks need to stop only hitting the CT (through splash or direct)

Edited by hammerreborn, 08 April 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Snoopy]

As a Founder, player and paying customer I'm disappointed by the Command Chair regarding ECM. IMHO it was a total waste of time to give feedback and wait on the CC.


Don't get me wrong : ECM should be powerful. But BAP should also be powerful.
All other electronic warfare items (TAG, NARC ) should be powerful and the effect the are generating should be eminent. After all there must be a reason to use it.

But there should be a balance between these items. Not one item should be the The-One-and-Only-King-of-EW. There should be multiple EW-Heros fighting each other in a constant war.

At the moment there are no EW-Heros, only one Almighty EW-King named ECM.

There is no balance the EW-items and only one counter ( ECM ) to all. And this item is restricted to a small number of mech variants. It is beyond my imagination how anybody can pretend this is balanced and good for the future of the game.

I'm not for copying all TT rule 1:1 to MWO but there is a over decades optimized system of checks-and-balances in TT ruleset that should not be thrown out of the window. If PGI can make this decade long process better in a few months with a small team ... great - do it !
But please don't screw things up by doing your own stuff, ignoring the existing system and pretend it is fine. IMO all attempts of PGI so far to fix a problem that a PGI-design made was to change something different than the original problem and creating a new thing to complain about.


IMHO ECM should only contain the functions it had according to the TT ruleset. Make ECM = BAP counter each other like it was in the TT ruleset.
# ECM blocks advanced EW items in own area-of-effect but is countered by BAP if in area-of-effect
# BAP improves radar range and load-out identification but is countered by ECM if in area-of-effect
# Modules can extend the area-of-effect radius.

This could encourage people to use different electronic warfare items. PGI does not have to reinvent the wheel to get a function-balance between the different EW-items.
Your team has to invest into ECM and BAP and get the full advantage & spectrum of EW. If do not want to take any or all EW-items you have to deal with the consequences.

Making ECM split into multiple functions ( ECM, ECCM, AoE-Sealth Cloak, Anti-Missile-Lock, ... ) makes the situation not better. It even makes is more a must-have-item because you now need multiple versions of it in your team.

Stack-up of ECM ( or an counter to it ) system should be removed completely. It also makes ECM a must-have-item.

ECM should hard counter any Artemis, C3 and C3i systems used at the ECM mech and all ECM protected mechs ( 180m radius or more if using modules ).

ECM should prevent any load-up information on the mechs protected by ECM. BAP should not be able to counter this if outside the ECM bubble.

LRM missile lock should be increased at the most if trying to lock-on a mech in the ECM effect area. But even this should not be needed if missile damage is fixed and balanced.

Streaks should not be denied to lock-on while effected by a Guardian ECM at all. This feature should be reserved for the upgraded Angel ECM. If Streak damage and hit location split is working balanced ( no freaking splash damage multiplier and auto-CT hits ) a hard counter is not needed.
IMHO the lock-on time for Streaks should be based on your own speed and the target speed as high speed should make it harder for your target system to get a lock. But that is a different kettle of fish.

These changes should make BAP at must-have item on the same level as ECM is a must-have item already. But that is fine if you want to have a EW arms race.


ECM should not generate a area stealth field. Own-mech only stealth is the future Stealth Armour and Null Signature System. Team stealth is someting that doesn't belong into BT / TT / MW.
Both systems require many internal slots and generate heat for the special benefits is it providing. ECM is only a part / addition of these way more advanced systems.

The current PGI implementation of ECM makes Stealth Armour and Null Signature System obsolete. It grants a better version of the effects for less internal space and heat.

What should these systems do that ECM is not already doing and even doing it better ( ECM with AoE stealth effect & complete missile-lock-on protection vs. StealthArmour/NullSignatureSystem with internal space/heat intensive mech-only stealth and no missile-lock-on protection ) than the original versions ?

Stealth is a major game changer and gives several advantages for the mech using it and the rest of the team. I'm strictly against given automatic disadvantages to ECM, but it has to be paid for respective to it's functions.

If PGI wants to have stealth effects already in the game for this point in the timeline ( which doesn't make any sense but who cares anymore ) why do they try to reinvent the wheel ? Give us Stealth Armour / Null Signature System like it is in TT and everybody has to pay with internal mech space and heat to get the respective advantages.



I will not even comment on "PPCs being a ECM counter". This was close to an insult of player intelligence.

Buffing TAG range way beyond it's original scope to make it better and then claiming that now TAG ( which use a energy weapon slot, require LOS and skill to use ) to be a counter against a passive AoE effect ... intersting. Ever thought about fixing the original problem and not building a ill-conceived quick-and-dirty workaround ?

Give LRMs the right damage. Don't make them a waste of tonnage and slots and take indirect fire out of the game ( the unique feature of LRMs ). And there are already counters against indirect fire ( use cover, single and overlapping AMS ). At the moment it is more rewarding and risk-free to take direct fire weapons over any LRMs.

LRMs should not be overpowered, but they should have a change to do something at all. LRMs were always part of the BattleTech fluff and feared ( or at least respected ) to be a potent long-range weapon system. At the moment LRM is a paper tiger.

Comparing modules for multiple thousand GXPs, millions of C-Bills, mentioned to be end-game-content that only have a minimal effect of a few meters range and a blink of time increase to lock-on with a available-from-the-start basic passive broadband effect mech item is ... I'm stunned.


This game started very promising. Check the original great Dev posts regarding MechWarrior Roles, CommunityWarfare and InformationWarfare. The road-map made me spend money and become a founder.

Please don't try to obfuscate anybody with the Open-Beta label. The moment we could start spending real-life money ingame MWO was live. I'm aware that this product will be in development for a long time and was even ok with that and would have invested more to see the promised road-map developed.

The changes & development contradictory to the orignial road-map and the currently established plans ( 3rd person, consumables, ECM is fine, split of community on multiple-levels and servers to name a few ) have made many of the original advertised features nothing but hollow promises IMO.


It is sad to say but in my personal opinion :
At the current state of the game and the established plans for the future of MWO I know ...
# I wouldn't have become a founder
# I can not suggest MWO to any friend with good reason
# I would have renamed MWO to Alpha-Damage-ECM-Brawler-Turmoil-Online for April 1st
# I would describe it as a BattleTech universe falvoured Giant-Robot-FPS
# I would adivse to play in premade teams to have fun, solo players are easy screwed and not fun
# I have reduced spending money on MWO to zero
# I'm uncertain about the future for MWO at all
As mentioned this is my personal opionion and nobody has to agree to it.

Perhaps PGI has a brilliant master plan we all are not knowing and will make this a fantastic MMO.
But on base of the current state of the game, the reaction to the community feedback, the general PR management and the public mentioned plans of PGI for the upcoming features they will have to do it without my money. Maybe enough people like the plans of PGI an finance it.

But we as a community are financing this project - we can give this game the direction we want by changing the stream of cash. So ask yourself if you like the current state of the game and the established plans each time before you buy a Hero Mech or some MC. Every time you spend money it is for the plans PGI published, even if you do not agree with them. And PGI will take every $ spend as a approvement for their plans. As a Micro-Management-Investor everybody has to make this descision for her-/himself.

Because I'm taking the time to make this wall of text post in the forums should tell you that I still believe there is I chance to make this game really great. I will keep playing MWO, but at the moment my Gaming-Budget will go to other things.

Thanks for reading and sorry for the grammar

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Look, guys, you obviously either aren't even close to listening to us, YOUR CUSTOMERS, or you can tell the absolute best lies on the planet while you secretly test fixes for this until you find one we all like.
Me? I'm guessing it isn't the second one.

Seriously, how hard would it be to, instead of just telling us feature roadmaps step by step, you tell us your plans for a full year in advance. Or maybe, like EVE online, you elect a board of 'player directors', who can discuss stuff directly with you, AND WHOM YOU ACTUALLY LISTEN TO.


I honestly don't want to be angry with you guys; I really don't.

But you're making it SO. *******. HARD.

[Targetloc]

Not blocking out friendly mechs on the map will be a huge step in the right direction. At least now you'll know where your troubled allies are when they call for help, or where you can run to for help if you're being swarmed by ECM mechs. (Since you won't always have voice coms with all your allies in a drop)

We'll see how it goes from here.

[Kyone Akashi]

I still feel that ECM should lose its missile jamming capabilities. Apart from not working how it does in the original Battletech material, I remain convinced that it is a too offensive feature. Missile damage may have been turned down somewhat, but as we have learned from the past few months, the Guardian suite was used by Light Mechs less to disguise their approach and more to enjoy immunity from lock-on weapons whilst brawling.
ECM should be a scouting feature, or a cloaking device for a company of BattleMechs that attempts to flank their enemy and hides in the terrain. It should not tempt its users to go on the offensive by disabling a third of the enemy team's weaponry.

Either the 'Mechs that have ECM now need to become more capable without it, or ECM needs to become less powerful, but right now it frequently seems to be the only reason to use them, given the amount of times I have seen a 3L without a Guardian suite.

If you really feel that ECM is close to where you want it to be, make it available to every 'Mech. And if you fear that it would be used too extensively ... then obviously it is still too much of a no-brainer rather than a potentially useful gadget.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 08 April 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[Deathlike]

http://mwomercs.com/...us-for-balance/

My suggestion: Lower the ECM cloak radius from 180m to 120m (or 135m). That would allow non-ECM lights with streaks to have a reasonable chance to counter, instead of the limited 90m distance that favors the ECM carrier significantly.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 April 2013 - 05:32 PM.

[DocBach]

My thoughts on the matter which I've shared about a million times. I think I might bring it up as a poll in GD and see the reception it gets though I imagine it will just be the usual suspects telling me to learn to play and that ECM is great without reading or considering the content.

First, the other electronic devices in this game need to be increased in utility -- they should fill a role for the team comparable to buffs in other MMO's. They should not be considered necessary for a victory or the only reason a team wins, but should help the team out. ECM should serve as the debuffer, but not an all out counter. Right now Information Warfare has no means of gaining information beyond some modules, which cost GXP as well as much C-bills as a medium 'Mech, where denying information is all done by one single piece of equipment with a significantly smaller price tag. We need the equipment we have currently to be overhauled where we can actually gain information for ECM to deny.



Suggested Beagle Active Probe changes:

-- Active radar, can locate and track targets within a 120 meter, 360 degree radius around the 'Mech, including 'Mechs outside of line of sight if they are not shut down.

-- Probe ability, pilots can utilize the Beagle Active Probe to gain a more in depth sensor readout of a target to include exact and current armor/structure levels, item placement, engine type, ect. to allow a probing unit detect for weaknesses in the enemy 'Mech such as ammunition stored in a leg with low armor.

-- ECM in disrupt mode counters Beagle's active radar and probing ability

-- Counter ECM's proposed Ghost Target third mode

Suggested changes to Narc Beacon

-- Remove any time limit for the Beacon's signal.

-- If the Narc Missile Beacon hits a 'Mech's armor, it is active until the armor is stripped from that location. If it hits a location already stripped of armor, it is active until the location is destroyed.

-- Give the Narc Beacon launcher a lock-on effect like LRM's

-- Targets locked by a Narc Beacon can be targeted regardless of line of sight


Secondly, ECM itself still needs more adjusting beyond just limited where it can be placed and removing the IFF jamming ability. Currently, ECM jams sensors, electronics, and missiles all in one single mode without any vulnerabilities. The anti-missile portion of ECM should be moved to a third mode and toned down to where it increases lock on time for missiles rather than an all out counter -- ECM's function needs to be segmented towards specific functions rather than the all-in-one wonder box we have now. 'Mechs should be hindered without counters to ECM, but not completely nullified like in the case of missiles or sensors.

Suggested Changes to ECM:

-- Anti-missile capabilities are moved to a third mode, Ghost Target Mode. Missile attacks against 'Mechs protected by ECM in Ghost Target mode have increased lock on time. Ghost Target mode also adds several false targets to enemy sensors that MechWarriors have to cycle through to find real targets. Beagle Active Probe identifies false targets as Ghost Targets, and nullifies the additional lock on time. Disrupt mode still affects Beagle Active Probe in the 180m ECM radius and counters its ability to nullify the additional lock on time and ability to detect false targets as ghosts.

-- Remove the block out of sensor locking to targets in line of sight; 'Mechs can be targeted but no further information will be shared with the sensors such as 'Mech type, variant type, weapons loadout, or damage readout.

For Information Warfare to have depth and variety, all equipment involved needs to be useful in its own right, and should be self-contained without requiring other equipment or weapons to function like in the case of PPC being a counter to ECM. There should be thought and consideration in selecting what information warfare equipment to take, rather than a no-brainer choice to picking ECM like we currently have.

[Critical Fumble]

I'm quoting myself from the recent ATD because I feel this applies here.

Critical Fumble, on 08 April 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

Polarized opinions are really not what you want, by the way. There's a fair chance that a number of the loud voices don't truly understand the factors involved - those who get killed by it and don't understand how to defeat it shout one way, while people who don't understand how to juice the most out of the system and therefore don't see a marked improvement shout the other way. That's a failure of player training, or just a system that is too obtuse and needs simplification. There's also the situation where there are obvious counters, but they reduce or kill the fun for some people who then detract from it. Most everyone would like an ideal system - because is something fun to play with as well as against; whereas polarization indicates that it is either not fun to play with or not fun to play against.

Edit: my spelling is bad, and I feel bad.

Edited by Critical Fumble, 08 April 2013 - 09:54 PM.

[Valaska]

When you used to have massive activity, 8 man team drops took seconds, and (IIRC) 70% of the community voted ECM was not a good function and hurt the game, then its no longer biased polarized opinions, it has turned into a truth/fact. We've given rational, extremely logical and widely lauded ways to fix ECM and keep it in the game, keep it viable but not VITAL which it -has- become.

This is a system that if you are in a mech that can take it, there's NO other reason to, not even since LRM 2.0 DMG patch had that been the case with ANY module. You would still see Gauss Rifles, Small/Medium /pulse lasers, not really large to be honest they were kinda cruddy back then due to heat to damage ratio, but there was a myriad of weapon systems used.

Take ECM, enable it on every mech, it will NOT be the same story. EVERY mech will take ECM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Quote

just before ECM came out there was a sweet spot where LRM boats were down, and mixed forced combat was way up. It was beautiful and I was spending money like an 80 year old on the Las Vegas strip, and I had eight friends playing this game whom were previously unrelated to Mechwarrior/Battletech in any way (a lot more still in). I don't know any of my friends who still actually play MWO save a couple old BTech'ers clinging on for dear life, though I get random complaint messages still.

This. ECM is too much of a game changer. before ECM, all mechs where viable. LRMS have taken WAY to much of a hit from ECM. the long range stealth bubble was a godaweful idea.

But most importantly exactly what this man said - right before ECM came in, and LRMS had been sorta nurfed, MWO was in an INCREDIBLE sweet spot and the whole game was really starting to play amazing.

ECM destroyed 8 mans. it brought in ECM/huddle bubble/poptarting and completly pulled radar from the game - a huge mistake for a game that has always been based on radar. PUGS and 4 mans are still ok because ECM isnt the go to mech. But in 8 mans the ECM bubble create a gigantic cluster****

End of the day, the truth is that ECM has done NOTHING positive for this game, and has done all kinds of bad. LRMS are so bad now that ECM is no longer needed to stop ANYTHING ... EXCEPT SSRM boats - and again, thats an SSRM problem.

pull ECM. Fix LRMS & SSRMS. go to a mech4 type active/passive radar system for long range stealth. Make BAP & NARC worth more than ***** tonnage.

What exactly does ECM do for the game these days? nothing. Why is it in the game? no reason. The game just changed - direct fire guns only, tighter huddles. I never see teams flanking with LRMS anymore, or trying to flush the enemy from cover. It's not doable due to ECM. Now with LRMS gooned its even less doable. I don't see god tactics, because in 8 mans, no tactic but "rush the eenmy base" really exists or is worthwhile, everything else is inefficient and haphazard due to ECM. Before ECM we found the enemy, we had strategy, there was no ghostwarrior online.

overall ECM remains a complete fail imho. I've tried defending it, but outside of the 180m disruption effect ALL the other effects are mainly just craptastic and have done NOTHING for this game but cost it players.

NA TS and EU TS where PACKED in the weeks before ECM. They remain shadows of their former selves, and unless everyone ran off to other servers, if indeed player counts are hugely high, well then I guess all is well.

But I just somehow doubt it honestly. And if PGI really is in fact dumb enough to "Stay the course" with the current system while player numbers keep falling - well that would just be really really sad.

So, hopefully Russ is right, ECM is loved by all, and player numbers and money funneling in is proving Russ right and us whiners.

Otherwise the games in deeper trouble than mere ECM troubles anyhow.

[DocBach]

Well, they didn't run off to my teamspeak server. We use to have around 20-30 players nightly. Right now there's two on.

[Ghost-Wolf]

A New Idea: How about making ECM only useable for Pilots which are qualified in Electronic Warfare (Pilots Pilot Tree Skill). And therefore have to spend their XP in getting better with it (Disrupt, Counter etc.)?

[MasterBLB]

Joachim Wolf, on 09 April 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

A New Idea: How about making ECM only useable for Pilots which are qualified in Electronic Warfare (Pilots Pilot Tree Skill). And therefore have to spend their XP in getting better with it (Disrupt, Counter etc.)?

No.
You can even invent that ECM is obainable only by performing ancient ritual during full moon,but that won't solve the main problem - which is completely wrong design.