313 replies to this topic

[DocBach]

Kristov Kerensky, on 09 April 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

Yes, you can clearly see the expertise of the writers at FASA back in the day, ECM only works when you are real close to it, as opposed to how it works in the real world, where it works miles and miles out....

So PGI made ECM in the game work more in line with reality instead of the silly way FASA originally had it work, and I don't have a problem with that.

Ah, except your logic fails you - this is a video game based on a system in which FASA created for balance. Changing their system in one way but leaving the rest of it the same creates massive imbalances -- like we have. Real life war is not a game, and it isn't balanced. I wish I could ask the insurgents we smoked when ECM like the DUKE protected us from their IED's how much fun they had playing with our ECM, but alas my KDR is higher than them, and respawns were turned off.

Edited by DocBach, 09 April 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[Xyroc]

Ravens arnt even OP any more thanks to their legs being able to get shot off so ECM really isnt that big of an issue

[Crockdaddy]

Tie Ma, on 03 April 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

i would love ECM to be used as an actual scout tool.

with things as they are 3Ls are alpha light mechs. not scout mechs.

Until a few patches ago the 3L was the ALPHA of all mechs and that included the Atlas D-DC.

[ElLocoMarko]

This is a half of a "no".
Hiding allies position - that is a good thing as the current system just flat out promotes friendly-fire kills on brawlers.
Putting it in a fixed location adds weakness... are you kidding me?

Watching PGI "weaken" ECM is like watching the grass grow.

[DocBach]

ElLocoMarko, on 09 April 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

This is a half of a "no".
Hiding allies position - that is a good thing as the current system just flat out promotes friendly-fire kills on brawlers.
Putting it in a fixed location adds weakness... are you kidding me?

Watching PGI "weaken" ECM is like watching the grass grow.

But it can be destroyed! That means it's balanced, right?

[StalaggtIKE]

Kristov Kerensky, on 09 April 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

Yes, you can clearly see the expertise of the writers at FASA back in the day, ECM only works when you are real close to it, as opposed to how it works in the real world, where it works miles and miles out....

So PGI made ECM in the game work more in line with reality instead of the silly way FASA originally had it work, and I don't have a problem with that.

Logic fail. Most of the maps hardly cover miles and miles out. It's even funnier considering that guided missiles have the range capacity for 2+miles. The game consist of a confined space, obviously all things must adhere to this limitation on order to maintain balance..., you know the big picture.

I guess this is a foreign concept.

[Foust]

Garth Erlam, on 08 April 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Where does it say there are no upcoming changes other than the two community suggested ones?

I imagine the confusion comes from specifically calling out two things that you will change, yet not mentioning changes that are under consideration. Additionally by saying that "Guardian ECM, like all features in the game, is very close to where we want it to be." carries with it the notion that other than what is spelled out in that post, nothing else will be changed. Devoting the majority of the post to the reasoning behind the minimal changes listed further supports the idea that those two changes are the only two being considered. Sometimes not saying something, says a great deal.

So I suppose that those who wish to see additional changes to ECM (myself included, my opinions are listed in the giant ECM thread) should be happy to see your post above. I understand that you have to carefully craft those types of posts considering that this fan base will dissect every letter of it, however I will ask if is it possible for you spell out some of the changes that are being considered, if any, and what changes are fully off the table?

Edited by Foust, 09 April 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[AC]

Caleb Lee, on 08 April 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Stealth Armor - Can't target them... (Something that should ONLY go on a mech with ECM equipped and the armor is a lot heavier, think opposite of FF).
Null Signature - Can't ID them for focus fire... (Really nerfs teamwork, especially for lonewolfs).

So one tiny device that weighs very little breaks multiple weapon systems, requires still others to help counter then and the matchmaker doesn't even take it into account.

Yeah, I chalk this up to another 'learning experience' for PGI. No more $$ till this and other issues are resolved properly.

That is a good point! PGI is screwing future technology. How will they release stealth armor when ECM already does that? How will they release Nul SiG (IFF Jammer) when ECM already does this? I simply can't understand why ECM can't just do what ECM is suppose to do. (Nullify Artimus, Tag, Narc, and BAP.) This can be translated in game as longer lockon times for missiles and much longer data gathering in the target with ECM. (Help scouts run accross short distances, unlike now where they wander around in the open with their ECM bubble of invisibility)

[Aeolus Drift]

TruePoindexter, on 04 April 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

The radar disruption only occurs at extreme close range. Is it normal for an intelligence gathering scout to be with in smelling distance of the enemy?

Well in the hypothetical that they are acting as a forward intel. scout, the answer would be no. However in my experience, and I think in the experience of many others, light mechs have only been sparingly serviced for the purpose of scouting, particularly after the introduction of ECM. Currently the majority of light mechs seem to be ran as strikers, harassers, and skirmishers. And their ability to do this only gets better with ECM, since ECM provides the additional bonus of almost entirely removing the enemy's sensory suite within the ECM bubble. this sensory shutdown also came with a complete shutdown of their guidance systems, so you don't have to worry about their streaks, but they certainly should fear yours. At this point the conversation becomes less about the practicality for the function of a forward intel scout, but why even play the forward intel scout when you could put the fear of god into them and do the damage needed yourself.

[StalaggtIKE]

AC, on 09 April 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

That is a good point! PGI is screwing future technology. How will they release stealth armor when ECM already does that? How will they release Nul SiG (IFF Jammer) when ECM already does this? I simply can't understand why ECM can't just do what ECM is suppose to do. (Nullify Artimus, Tag, Narc, and BAP.) This can be translated in game as longer lockon times for missiles and much longer data gathering in the target with ECM. (Help scouts run accross short distances, unlike now where they wander around in the open with their ECM bubble of invisibility)

Exactly. The current form of ECM is basically supporting all of IW, with no room for expansion. This includes future techs. Why? Because ECM already does it, without any penalty and for multiple team members. It would be superior to them before they're even released.

Let's not get started on how much better clan ECM and Angel ECM must be. I guess those grab the missiles out the air and throw 'em back for you.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 09 April 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Stanton Langley]

While not displeased by the progression of ECM from the initial implementation to the current state, it is still a very strong piece of equipment for a nominal weight and no drawback to use (no heat or negative affects on the using mech). At the very least, there should be ECM balancing in matchmaker groups--don't drop a group with 3 ECM against a group with zero.

[Mack1]

Sine the huge LRM and SSRM nerf (thx to the kids that can't play) ECM is not even needed, I hardly ever see anyone use them now, why waste valuable tonnage on a worthless bit of tec.

[AdmirableAdmiral]

anyone else getting the feeling that people are forgetting the other types of ECM?
they took the friendly bubble away from the guardian version because technically that should be on the Angel version

[AC]

Stanton Langley, on 09 April 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

While not displeased by the progression of ECM from the initial implementation to the current state, it is still a very strong piece of equipment for a nominal weight and no drawback to use (no heat or negative affects on the using mech). At the very least, there should be ECM balancing in matchmaker groups--don't drop a group with 3 ECM against a group with zero.

If ECM was balanced, there wouldn't be an issue dropping 3ECM team vs 0 ECM team. Heck... if it was truely balanced it would be available on EVERY mech like BAP is.....

[Solis Obscuri]

Garth Erlam, on 08 April 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Where does it say there are no upcoming changes other than the two community suggested ones?

Nowhere. But when a lead designer says

Paul Inouye said:

Guardian ECM... is very close to where we want it to be.

And then goes on to opine about how the laziest EZ-mode I've ever seen in a PvP game brings in "more skill and strategy", and then blames all ECM imbalance on "ping related issues", it really doesn't get my hopes up.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Solis Obscuri, on 09 April 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Nowhere. But when a lead designer says

And then goes on to opine about how the laziest EZ-mode I've ever seen in a PvP game brings in "more skill and strategy", and then blames all ECM imbalance on "ping related issues", it really doesn't get my hopes up.

and them going "its working as intended" at first, then saying theyll look into it to appease the forumites, then after "looking at it" saying basically "its working as intended"

Doesnt precisely foster hope.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 April 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[mattkachu]

PGI says:

Edited by mattkachu, 09 April 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[Khell DarkWolf]

all of what PGI proposed for the ECM changes look good but.

ECM needs to hinder missile lock speed when under the bubble, not prevent locks entirely.

It opens up streaks being used more often against lights and adds more viable light chassis's.

Afraid of streak cats? well, the lights can just hang back until the bigger boys eat them alive so its more safer.

But by definition in the current light role. No ECM, no streaks vs light duels. No Missile locks, No LRMs :|

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Khell DarkWolf, on 09 April 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

But by definition in the current light role. No ECM, no streaks vs light duels. No Missile locks, No LRMs :|

That does seem to be what people want, particularly the last one

[Solis Obscuri]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 April 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

and them going "its working as intended" at first, then saying theyll look into it to appease the forumites, then after "looking at it" saying basically "its working as intended"

Doesnt precisely foster hope.

It's also just bizarre that PGI made initial statements about restricting ECM to certain chassis because "some builds like a dual Guass K2 might be overpowered with ECM", yet they put in a wide-area full-team cloaking field for ECM, and now (surprise surprise) almost all the players who aren't in ECM 'mechs are pop-tart snipers hiding under a D-DCs cloaking field.