105 replies to this topic

[Sheraf]

realism to me is more kaboom stuff

[sC4r]

why endo steel takes up space in only few places when the ENTIRE mech is composed of it?
why ferro fibrous does the same as endo?
how can a raven shoot AC20 without falling down or even twitching its torso?
how can you effectively dissipitate heat coming from right hand energy weapon with left hand heatsinks?
why doesnt cockpit get damaged if you hit 1mm next to it with ac20?
why cant i see heat signatures on thermal vision when mech with core that has several hundreeds Celsium goes behind some punny building?
why why why why why why?

Edited by sC4r, 04 April 2013 - 06:11 AM.

[N0ni]

Darius Deadeye, on 04 April 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Thats the thing though - even with just 18 responses it's obvious the community is torn between freedom and realism.

edit: *realism within the world of giant walking robots, that is.

Freedom > Realism. It's a video game after all.

[Pyrometheus]

JSmith7784, on 04 April 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

I have been a mechwarrior fan since the games in the early 90's. I have most of the books and technical manuals.

I just don't understand why we are allowed to keep ammo in the legs. I know this isn't a perfect simulation, but there can be no physical way to move tons of ammo from the lower leg to the arms or upper torso. It seems like abusing the system to me.

I can understand mounting heat sinks and electronics in the legs, but ammo? How could missle or large ballistic rounds possibly be stored then moved from the legs, which are moving themselves, without constand loading jams etc?

"One should always be careful never to sacrifice fun on the altar of realism"
-E. Gary Gygax

Best GMing advice I ever read.

[Darius Deadeye]

Dead Eye 01, on 04 April 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Freedom > Realism. It's a video game after all.

Video games with no aspects of realism, boundaries, rule sets, limitations = what exactly?

All games need restrictions to make gameplay viable, balanced and appealing to all.

The biggest problem with freedom (in a non-looting system) is how it invites a large majority of players to play exactly the same, using whichever chassis or build gives you the most edge/advantage. Thus making (in part, due to freedom of choice) many builds obsolete within the gameplay boundaries.

[John Norad]

If I remember correctly, there are a few mechs with weapons and/or ammo in their legs.
From the top of my head at least the Crusader had it's SRMs leg-mounted, so the ammo-feeding mechanism has to run through it. The direction in which the ammo moves really should be irrelevant.

But indeed it is not common to put either weapons or ammo there.

Easy way to prevent or at least limit that and in the process even provide additional balancing options?
-> Ammo hardpoints

Darius Deadeye, on 04 April 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Video games with no aspects of realism, boundaries, rule sets, limitations = what exactly?

Boring. Because there are no obstacles or limitations to overcome or to adapt to.

But hey, an increasing number of players nowadays only seeks to pad their ego, kill or defeat as many opponents as possible, and boast with stats (or show off their awesome equip. on the marketsquare or whatnot). They don't care how or with what. Might as well be a ten foot pole or an ugly stick.
Guess that explains why developers seem to ignore some aspects of games more and more.

Edited by John Norad, 04 April 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[N0ni]

Darius Deadeye, on 04 April 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

The biggest problem with freedom (in a non-looting system) is how it invites a large majority of players to play exactly the same, using whichever chassis or build gives you the most edge/advantage. Thus making (in part, due to freedom of choice) many builds obsolete within the gameplay boundaries.

Just because you consider some build obsolete doesn't make it so for everyone else. At the end of the day, it comes down to the pilot... not the mech.

[xZaOx]

Seriously? Seriously? We have no officially complained about every single possible thing in this game. We can now shutdown these forums.

[Darius Deadeye]

Pyrometheus, on 04 April 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

"One should always be careful never to sacrifice fun on the altar of realism"
-E. Gary Gygax

Best GMing advice I ever read.

Thats the thing though. In D&D the use of MAGIC and FANTASY completely removes the need for realistic settings. Nevertheless, rulebooks apply in all games, and dice rolls, character traits are within certain preset boundaries with room for change. A human warrior can't triple-wield swords for instance, because he only has two arms. Orc's have high strength, low intelligence (usually) and the list goes on.

Mechwarrior works within the laws of nature, physics, etc. Human limitations also apply.

[Shard Phoenix]

Suspend the reality!

C'mon now, if you want to be that nitpicky about certain aspects of the game... Take a look at the scale of missile weapons in mech art, then ask yourself how exactly some of these giant stompy robots carry 800 of the darn things. I think it's done through a futuristic "invisible bag of holding"

Edited by Shard Phoenix, 04 April 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Ramrod]

Darius Deadeye, on 04 April 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

Thats the thing though. In D&D the use of MAGIC and FANTASY completely removes the need for realistic settings. Nevertheless, rulebooks apply in all games, and dice rolls, character traits are within certain preset boundaries with room for change. A human warrior can't triple-wield swords for instance, because he only has two arms. Orc's have high strength, low intelligence (usually) and the list goes on.

Mechwarrior works within the laws of nature, physics, etc. Human limitations also apply.

Multiple-story-tall walking tanks aren't fantasy?

Edited by Ramrod, 04 April 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[The Mech behind you]

Micro-Transporters. Beaming the Shell from your Legs right into the Gun

[Sheraf]

You guys can try kerbal space program for realism , otherwise mechwarrior is fun .

[Eric darkstar Marr]

JSmith7784, on 04 April 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

I have been a mechwarrior fan since the games in the early 90's. I have most of the books and technical manuals.

I just don't understand why we are allowed to keep ammo in the legs. I know this isn't a perfect simulation, but there can be no physical way to move tons of ammo from the lower leg to the arms or upper torso. It seems like abusing the system to me.

I can understand mounting heat sinks and electronics in the legs, but ammo? How could missle or large ballistic rounds possibly be stored then moved from the legs, which are moving themselves, without constand loading jams etc?

Hi I would welcome you to re read your TROs and see some mechs though very rare has ammo in the legs. Point is there are a few. Here is one as I refuse to humor you with doing the work.


Your argument is invalid and you should feel bad for thinking you were a PRO at lore.

[AdultPuppetShow]

Darius Deadeye, on 04 April 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

Thats the thing though. In D&D the use of MAGIC and FANTASY completely removes the need for realistic settings. Nevertheless, rulebooks apply in all games, and dice rolls, character traits are within certain preset boundaries with room for change. A human warrior can't triple-wield swords for instance, because he only has two arms. Orc's have high strength, low intelligence (usually) and the list goes on.

Mechwarrior works within the laws of nature, physics, etc. Human limitations also apply.

If the laws of physics applied properly to MechWarrior tanks would be the kings of the battlefield and the Mackie would have died on the design table.

[Steadfast]

Darius Deadeye, on 04 April 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

Thats the thing though. In D&D the use of MAGIC and FANTASY completely removes the need for realistic settings. Nevertheless, rulebooks apply in all games, and dice rolls, character traits are within certain preset boundaries with room for change. A human warrior can't triple-wield swords for instance, because he only has two arms. Orc's have high strength, low intelligence (usually) and the list goes on.

Mechwarrior works within the laws of nature, physics, etc. Human limitations also apply.

Quote

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd Law
To you it sounds like magic, to me it just sounds like immense technological advantages in the respective field which I not understand.

[Hauser]

Being able to store ammo in the legs does make CASE kinda useless.

[N0ni]

Hauser, on 04 April 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Being able to store ammo in the legs does make CASE kinda useless.

If you have excess ammo outside of the legs/head, then you can CASE the torsos/stuff ammo there.

[Steadfast]

Dead Eye 01, on 04 April 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

If you have excess ammo outside of the legs/head, then you can CASE the torsos/stuff ammo there.

Yes please, C.A.S.E. up, right besides your XL Engin... wait...
=D (didn't you just have to love the CASE Versions of the Heavy Trial Contest with XL Engines? ^^)
Cheers
Daniel

Edit: Just a funny thought there, not that I think that you or someone else would think about htat but still... back on topic, I guess as long as I am to allowed to modify anything on my mech its fair game. I would love to have stock only content, but well thats not fpr the masses so this will never happen sadly. Sigh.
I see no reason why it should not be allowed to store amo in the legs, due to feeding mechanism or balance reasons. I believe that engineers would make it work 1000 years in the future.
/Edit

Edited by Steadfast, 04 April 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Tenzek]

Darius Deadeye, on 04 April 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

Thats the thing though. In D&D the use of MAGIC and FANTASY completely removes the need for realistic settings. Nevertheless, rulebooks apply in all games, and dice rolls, character traits are within certain preset boundaries with room for change. A human warrior can't triple-wield swords for instance, because he only has two arms. Orc's have high strength, low intelligence (usually) and the list goes on.

Mechwarrior works within the laws of nature, physics, etc. Human limitations also apply.

We don't have magic in MW/BT universe, but we have technology 1000+ years in the future.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke