160 replies to this topic

[Sifright]

mania3c, on 05 April 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

You are too focused to to XP cost.. but you are clearly denying fact, that module slot to improve ECM is indeed a downside...

You have to sacrifice something to have powerful tool.. which is thing I can agree with.. maybe even overpowered tool is okey if you have to sacrifice other options (and if it has solid counter)..

Module slots are such a minor part of a mech and really there are only basically 2 or 3 good modules any way. So any mech that fits ECM will be able to get what it wants with no problems.

[Ghogiel]

I like it because people get annoyed by it.

Also for the sake of light mechs viability.

[mania3c]

Sifright, on 05 April 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Module slots are such a minor part of a mech and really there are only basically 2 or 3 good modules any way. So any mech that fits ECM will be able to get what it wants with no problems.

So we are building balance around current systems or around systems which are supposed to be there at release?

Module slots is something, which is not supposed to be weak.. In future, there should be tons of modules to choose from.

[Jakob Knight]

I like it because it makes my 30-ton, one laser, light armor unit more valuable than any other 'mech in the game when those mechs -don't- have ECM, and I like how I can single-handedly decide the outcome of a battle because I alone brought ECM to the fight.

I also like how it makes me completely immune to any LRM boats, which can only die because their weapons cannot be used at all when I'm on the field. I especially like how it also lets me hide for the entire game if I want, and watch the battle from the sidelines, waiting for a free payout without ever getting spotted and therefore never needing to participate or help my team if I don't feel like it.

Oh wait, my bad. Those are why I -don't- like ECM. Guess I got confused.

[Krondor]

DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I'm seeing a trend. People who like ECM dislike the pillar of role warfare where all play styles are suppose to be effective, and are completely fine with the fact that ECM cleaves certain roles from the game.

This.

[Jetfire]

ECM has to be played around, but is not an invincibility cloak. It was very powerful originally, but is now countered several ways and only affects LRMS and Streaks strongly. This is basically what I wanted from ECM. Hard point limiting and removing interference with enemy hud are likely the last needed adjustments.

ECM is essentially balanced, it is tonnage and mech specific for E-warfare.

The remaining imbalance is largely due to specific mechs such as the raven having poor hitboxes, NARC hardpoints mounting SSRM's and the 3L being at the speed limit. The 3L should not be much faster than the other ravens and definately not able to keep up with Spiders.

[Lugh]

I love ECM it makes people think they are invinceable when all you have to do is have people tagging them and they die fast (because they forget to bring AMS as ECM is uber LOL)

[jay35]

StalaggtIKE, on 04 April 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

The question is in the title. Just as we have people that hate how ECM is within MWO, we have those that love it. Here's your chance to share why.

I like it more than I hate it because this game needs a stealth component to it in order to allow for a broad sweep of play styles.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it blocks your friendly radar signatures if the enemy ECM is affecting you. I understand why it does that, but for gameplay's sake it's quite annoying and could be disconcerting for newer players.

The only aspect of ECM that feels unbalanced is when it's a Raven 3L or Commando 2D with their ECM+Streaks combo, yet they cannot be hit by Streaks themselves. With Streaks being the most reliable way to hit a Light mech, this gives them a significant advantage over every other mech, particularly other Lights without ECM to counter theirs and Assaults other than the DDC for the same reason.

[Odanan]

I don't.

[HammerForge]

The only weapon that it makes rather useless is SSRM2s in something other than a ECM Mech, because if you aren't and ECM mech they are really only good against lights and mediums, and while there still seem to be a lot of TREBs out there, not enough to make SSRM2 better than some regular SRM launchers, and lights are generally with ECM unless you run into the occasional Jenner.

People QQ about it making LRMs useless, they aren't using them well, there is TAG and to spot and I have seen plenty of people running LRMs out there up until the latest missle hotfix. Unless you are running a Cat A1 LRM monster, you have the option of running with TAG, realize you might need it, and use it. It was LRM warrior before ECM, it has been LRM warrior a couple times with ECM, it would seem to me that is proof enough that ECM doesn't completely remove the LRMs like people cry about.

I can't think of any other role that is drastically effected by ECM, spotters can still spot, brawlers can still brawl, snipers can still snipe, harassers can still harass, scouts can still scout.

I currently am running a LRM Hunchie, and I am not a great pilot, although I would like to think I am decent, and I can pull over 300-400 damage often, even with the drop in LRM damage, and I haven't added tag in place of my small laser yet. And this isn't even a very good dedicated LRM boat, but it's what I'm using to fill basics in my Hunchies.

I do believe ECM is a tad OP, but not in need of the the NERF beat down some would like, more like a minor tweak which I have outline many times and am not doing so again here. People have adapted, state rewind has helped, hit boxes are better, if you still can't destroy ECM lights, it might be time to start looking in the mirror and ask what you are doing wrong that isn't effecting most of the other warriors out there.

[Roadbeer]

I'm ok with ECM as it is.

The reason is, as IW goes, it's probably the 'unique' item in it, making it the benchmark that the rest of the IW 'pillar' is built around. You have to have a benchmark in a system to build the rest of your system around. Which is why the Devs say that ECM is "Working as intended"

The reason it feels OP. The platforms that it's on, haven't have the REST of their core components implemented. With NARC being underwhelming, the 3L pilots have swapped it out for RECOCKULOUS firepower for it's class. Same goes for the DDC pilots not needing to put the rest of the C&C package in and taking what's supposed to be a support mech into the furball.

If you want a good example of what these mechs are SUPPOSED to be like, look at the CDA-3M. Yes, you have ECM, but for it's weight class, it's pretty meh.

Really don't have much to add.

[Zylo]

For me the answer is simple - ECM prevents LRMs and SSRMs from being overused.

[Krondor]

HammerForge, on 05 April 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

The only weapon that it makes rather useless is SSRM2s in something other than a ECM Mech, because if you aren't and ECM mech they are really only good against lights and mediums, and while there still seem to be a lot of TREBs out there, not enough to make SSRM2 better than some regular SRM launchers, and lights are generally with ECM unless you run into the occasional Jenner.

People QQ about it making LRMs useless, they aren't using them well, there is TAG and to spot and I have seen plenty of people running LRMs out there up until the latest missle hotfix. Unless you are running a Cat A1 LRM monster, you have the option of running with TAG, realize you might need it, and use it. It was LRM warrior before ECM, it has been LRM warrior a couple times with ECM, it would seem to me that is proof enough that ECM doesn't completely remove the LRMs like people cry about.

I can't think of any other role that is drastically effected by ECM, spotters can still spot, brawlers can still brawl, snipers can still snipe, harassers can still harass, scouts can still scout.

I currently am running a LRM Hunchie, and I am not a great pilot, although I would like to think I am decent, and I can pull over 300-400 damage often, even with the drop in LRM damage, and I haven't added tag in place of my small laser yet. And this isn't even a very good dedicated LRM boat, but it's what I'm using to fill basics in my Hunchies.

I do believe ECM is a tad OP, but not in need of the the NERF beat down some would like, more like a minor tweak which I have outline many times and am not doing so again here. People have adapted, state rewind has helped, hit boxes are better, if you still can't destroy ECM lights, it might be time to start looking in the mirror and ask what you are doing wrong that isn't effecting most of the other warriors out there.

It may not remove LRMs, but it reduces them to the point where putting the tonnage into LRMs over something else makes zero sense. LRMs have become a "novelty weapon" that the only reason to run is if you specifically want to play with missiles.

Edited by Krondor, 05 April 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[Abivard]

ECM adds layers of complexity and tactics to the game that it was lacking beforehand.

But PGI did not introduce it to the game very well, PGI's revisionist history now states that ECM had to be added to the game because the Raven 3L was being released and it was centered around ECM however;

Change log:

October 23, 2012: RVN-3L Variant introduced to game.
November 27, 2012: Right Arm displays if no energy weapons are mounted.
December 4, 2012: Became Guardian ECM capable.

It was not ECM that made lights especially ravens have god mode, it was exploits like hitboxes,lag shield, netcode, and PGI turning a rather blind eye to the massive exploitation of said game bugs.

ECM does not negate 1/3 of the weapon systems, nor a whole class, it negates ONLY SSRM.s! (this was part of god-mode as well)
It Takes away the limited 'Tracking' ability of LRM's (I don't recall LRM's having tracking in TT -shrugs-) but still allows dumb fire.
If you think it is ok for PGI to veer from TT when it is something you want or like but throw up the 'That is not TT' argument against anything you dislike or fear you are being a hypocrite.

If ECM makes everything so easy why do you have trouble defeating ECM now and why was it you could only do well playing bugged exploited raven3L streak builds?

We need to get away from this narrow inside the sandbox thinking, black and white, hot cold, 'good thing must have equal bad thing making thing not good or bad makes balance mentality' tic tac toe and rock paper scissors are little children's games because they haven't learnt the lessons yet.

I want something more to a game then simple clicking on a KB when a message or prompt appears, I am no Pavlov's Dog!

[Inertiamon]

It's incredible that this ECM thread hasn't reached the usual fifty pages yet.

[Mancu]

DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I'm seeing a trend. People who like ECM dislike the pillar of role warfare where all play styles are suppose to be effective, and are completely fine with the fact that ECM cleaves certain roles from the game.

"It doesn't affect my build, or the weapons I use, so I don't care that it limits what the rest of the player base can bring to a game and be effective."

Very true. A great many players don't like variety and prefer a much more one dimensional game that suits only their style of play.

[Abivard]

Change Narc intended mechs to a narc HP why don't we? there goes one of the ravens OP HP's!
ECM is already a 'well, we don't really need ecm bring a different mech' why nerf it more?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

I'm seeing a trend. People who like ECM dislike the pillar of role warfare where all play styles are suppose to be effective, and are completely fine with the fact that ECM cleaves certain roles from the game.

"It doesn't affect my build, or the weapons I use, so I don't care that it limits what the rest of the player base can bring to a game and be effective."

It's funny how no one really answered his question.

Even better is, everyone's answers are regarding using it offensively.

"I don't want LRM's, I don't want Streaks, I use it to kill people".

No one really uses it because of the information warfare pillar.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 05 April 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Abivard]

How in the world does ECM which increases the roles needed in combat, adds new dimensions of tactics, complexity, and skill to the game, encourages team play and balanced team compostions , combined arms philosophy and a multitude of new equipment and variants to play with suddenly become:


(Posted Today, 10:11 AM
DocBach, on 05 April 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:
I'm seeing a trend. People who like ECM dislike the pillar of role warfare where all play styles are suppose to be effective, and are completely fine with the fact that ECM cleaves certain roles from the game.

"It doesn't affect my build, or the weapons I use, so I don't care that it limits what the rest of the player base can bring to a game and be effective."

Mancu;
Very true. A great many players don't like variety and prefer a much more one dimensional game that suits only their style of play. )

All play styles can not all be effective all the time against everything always. That is an illogical and not rational statement and thought process.

Saying That just because 'it' doesn't effect the majority of players That that simple fact alone means 'it' is OP'd? WTF?
yet at the same time claiming because it took away the easy button for your preferred weapon you alone have the right to demand something be nerfed?

You can not be for real can you?

[Abivard]

Exactly what roles does ECM 'cleave from the battlefield'?

How does it make things one dimensional?

Why should your play-style and skill and load-outs be always as effective or superior to anyone else?

Why does only your view count?