143 replies to this topic

[Raso]

valkyrie, on 04 April 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Occam's Razor suggests they're just idiots. The fact that they may be confined to the steering wheel underhive by ELO reinforces this theory.

Oh yes that MUST be the most simple and sensible conclusion.

[Oriius]

As a Med user myself, there are a few things I have noticed, a lot of people will ignore a med that does hit and runs, I have been able to strip assaults down via this tactic while taking almost no damage. Some med players seem to think they are in a heavy, almost always hunchies I see like this, they stand very still, or at least don't try to get a stronger position and seem to want to go blow for blow, not a always good tactic vs anything but afk'ers. (but don't get me wrong situationaly you CAN go blow for blow, you just need to know if or when to run, and when to pick that fight)

Now as to the issue of role, if you try and play a jack of all trades (lets say fast engine and mix of long and short weapons) you tend to find yourself usless, one of my favorate setups is a close range brawler support, I basicaly backstab people, blast away untill they try to turn on me, then I run, if you do this as support with a heavy it works wonders in my experience.

I feel you need to specialise to work well in a med, as indeed almost all other weights, the thing is, you can't be a heavy or a light, you need to do a more support role, you can't take the hits like an atlas, and you can't run like a spider, so don't try to play like them, pick your fights, and you will tear people up before they even notice you.

[Ngamok]

MacKerris, on 04 April 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

I don't believe that I am going to say this......but the game's not finished. At some point there should be some final balancing act and we can all pray that every mech has a place.

Don't feel bad, I often pilot a spider. Current worst mech in the game.

I will be doing a Flea next month to master.

[OneEyed Jack]

The OP is absolutely correct. If you try to play a Medium as a mini-Heavy, then you would have been better off with a Heavy.

Of course, if you play a Medium and something quicker and more agile than a Heavy, but better armed/armored than a Light, then you can show just how clueless the OP is. Mediums share the same trade-offs with Lights/Heavies that Heavies have with Mediums/Assaults. If you can't figure out how to take advantage of them, then maybe Mediums aren't for you. You should accept that and find the mech that works for you, rather than ranting that the mech you've pre-chosen doesn't just do it all on it's own.

That doesn't mean they don't serve a role. Expecting them to keep the same "workhorse" role they did in lore is a bit naive. It actually worked with RnR, for the same reasons, but that ship has sailed. Perhaps we'll see it to some extent with CW.

[Queen of RAGE]

Demoned, on 04 April 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

when i go out in my 4SP, i dare teams to focus fire on me

Challenge accepted!

i bring my spider 5v, just for teh lulz.

woops, wrong acc.

Edited by Queen of RAGE, 05 April 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Tremendous Upside]

Mediums are fine in this game. They're not useless, but in general, they're kind of like lights in that they're far and away most effective operating in wolf packs, slashing and focusing-firing their way through teams. If you try to play them in a conventional stand-up, post-up fight against heavier mechs, then yes. You'll be at a disadvantage, and probably should bring something heavier. It's not the mech's fault. It's simply not the right fit for the way you're trying to play.

The guys I drop with run a lot of 8-man pickup groups. We're not ultra try-hards or anything. We don't put a lot of effort into coordinating what we drop with - but we do occasionally change things up and run "all-medium" hit squads. They're surprisingly effective, and an absolute blast to play.

[Coralld]

I do pretty good in my Hunchback 4G with dual Utra5s, or my Gauss-Back. I am also a light mech pilot and I am ok with them. Never used a Heavy before nor do I feel the need to. However, I would agree that mediums could use a small size reduction to help make them just a bit harder to hit, and probably buff their turning radius so they can turn faster. Other then that they are just fine.

[Braggart]

TruePoindexter, on 05 April 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

You definitely do not need to have an XL to mount good weapons:

4SP 5 ML 2 SSRM2 http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3a60ed72b18a69f
4H 5 ML 1 UAC5 http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aea76091b79e3e2
4G 3 ML 1 Gauss http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a7580ea3633b3f8
4P 7 ML 2 MPL http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ad12cacaa2b8fb0

Hrmmm... never realized how I throw ML's around like candy.

congratz, you have just a little bit more firepower than a light. With none of the speed or survivability.

Edited by Braggart, 05 April 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[DaZur]

TruePoindexter, on 05 April 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

High alphas have been here since the dawn of time and for better or for worse are not going away. What's killing fast is precision fire on someone not distributing their damage around their mech. If there's one thing I've noticed since coming back from my hiatus is that people spend far too much time standing still and getting shot in the same place over and over again - not that I'm complaining

I totally agree that high alphas are a core meta and I agree that they are further exacerbated boy players who as you mentioned do not spread the damage.

The point I was making was that the community presently leans to the heavies and assaults for their ability to provide necessary high-alpha builds in the current meta because Mediums are more widely designed asymmetrically to be flexible and host a load-out that can touch at any range and lights because of their speed and "present" survivability...

Right now Mediums just don't fit the death-match meta. That's not to say they are not good Mechs...

[TruePoindexter]

Braggart, on 05 April 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

congratz, you have just a little bit more firepower than a light. With none of the speed or survivability.

Please avoid vacuum logic. Yes the number isn't that much larger but pay attention to how firepower scales with increases in weight. The curve is actually quite shallow with substantially larger mechs not having numbers that much greater. Consider stability as a weapons platform. and how the mech interacts with teammates.

[TruePoindexter]

DaZur, on 05 April 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

I totally agree that high alphas are a core meta and I agree that they are further exacerbated boy players who as you mentioned do not spread the damage.

The point I was making was that the community presently leans to the heavies and assaults for their ability to provide necessary high-alpha builds in the current meta because Mediums are more widely designed asymmetrically to be flexible and host a load-out that can touch at any range and lights because of their speed and "present" survivability...

Right now Mediums just don't fit the death-match meta. That's not to say they are not good Mechs...

It's a mixed bag. I think on their own they're not as strong as they probably should be. In a team coordinating with another they're extraordinarily dangerous. Their mobility lets them get into flanking positions very quickly when working with someone else while they can mount almost as much firepower as heavier mechs. On the flip side they can't achieve speeds that they really should due to the heat sink/engine arrangement and they don't have the armor of larger mechs making them much less forgiving. A Jenner could just run out of a bad situation and Cataphract could lumber out of a bad spot surviving enemy fire but a Hunchback is likely to die before successfully disengaging.

[DaZur]

TruePoindexter, on 05 April 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's a mixed bag. I think on their own they're not as strong as they probably should be. In a team coordinating with another they're extraordinarily dangerous. Their mobility lets them get into flanking positions very quickly when working with someone else while they can mount almost as much firepower as heavier mechs. On the flip side they can't achieve speeds that they really should due to the heat sink/engine arrangement and they don't have the armor of larger mechs making them much less forgiving. A Jenner could just run out of a bad situation and Cataphract could lumber out of a bad spot surviving enemy fire but a Hunchback is likely to die before successfully disengaging.

Agree on all points.

I've been spun around and forced to suffered "posterior prison violation" from a gaggle of mediums (and lights) more times than I care to admit publicly...

[Applecrow]

Slow mediums can't survive in the days of high alpha, but fast mediums are still viable and very dangerous in the right hands.

[DevilJade]

Demoned, on 04 April 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

when i go out in my 4SP, i dare teams to focus fire on me

The 4SP is one of my favorites, though I only take it out every now and then.

[Riffleman]

OneEyed Jack, on 05 April 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

The OP is absolutely correct. If you try to play a Medium as a mini-Heavy, then you would have been better off with a Heavy.

Of course, if you play a Medium and something quicker and more agile than a Heavy, but better armed/armored than a Light, then you can show just how clueless the OP is. Mediums share the same trade-offs with Lights/Heavies that Heavies have with Mediums/Assaults. If you can't figure out how to take advantage of them, then maybe Mediums aren't for you. You should accept that and find the mech that works for you, rather than ranting that the mech you've pre-chosen doesn't just do it all on it's own.

That doesn't mean they don't serve a role. Expecting them to keep the same "workhorse" role they did in lore is a bit naive. It actually worked with RnR, for the same reasons, but that ship has sailed. Perhaps we'll see it to some extent with CW.

Way to kill any credability with personal attacks. What if I told you I was better than you in a medium, but still found them underperforming. I guess my opinion trumps yours. And your self righteous opinions mean jack, when you can look at hard numbers in the top tier of the game, where balance is ACTUALLY reflected, not slumming it in pug ghetto where any fun bulid can be super. See how many teams run mediums. They dont because good build heavies do everything you say you can do in your medium and better. And the 200 foot tall trebuchets that go 120 are under firepowered, a good jenner or, ugh, raven pilot would do his job 2x better. Because that 90kph hunch isnt nearly as effective as that 82kph cat, or 75 kph pracht, or anything well built besides mabye a dragon.

[borisof007]

Me in my hunchback 4sp, 245XL, 3 LL's, 2 SSRM's, TAG, Adv Sensor, Adv Targ decay, 9x9 cool shot.

Mediums are fine, play according to your mech/build.

[Riffleman]

DevilJade, on 05 April 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

The 4SP is one of my favorites, though I only take it out every now and then.

Have you tried it since the srm nerf? Also if mediums are so fine why is most of your time split between heavy use of lights, and assaults,

[Riffleman]

borisof007, on 05 April 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Me in my hunchback 4sp, 245XL, 3 LL's, 2 SSRM's, TAG, Adv Sensor, Adv Targ decay, 9x9 cool shot.

Mediums are fine, play according to your mech/build.

one screenshot where you did well dosent prove that the game dosent need a better weight balancing mechanic to make it more fair overall. I could pull up half a dozen 7 kill games between my a1 cheeze cat and cataprachts that would counter this arguement. Most with higher damage too. No 8 kills tho, someone always managed to get the last one from me.

There really isnt much point to trying to convince others anymore. Its like listening to an american soccer fan, getting excited about the big game they had against mexico where they managed to tie, and placing 37th overall in the world. If your happy with sub par standing, im not going to convince you otherwise

Edited by Riffleman, 05 April 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[DevilJade]

Riffleman, on 05 April 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Have you tried it since the srm nerf? Also if mediums are so fine why is most of your time split between heavy use of lights, and assaults,

3 of the 4 matches are actually since the nerf. Where did I state mediums are fine?

[Appogee]

I just got my first medium, and top-scored in two of my first four games.

So I'm one happy medium pilot.