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General Observations For Consideration, By A Veteran.


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#1 Prathios

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:43 PM

Salutations to the Mechwarrior community. Despite it's rage and juvenile behavior, it's still not league of legends. As such I decided to do my civic duty and write up a nice, long winded post, about my observation as a veteran of this game and its predecessors. Many of you can't or don't want to read a lengthy post, so just skip to my bullet points if you still care. Before I dive into the post proper, you should know why my opinion might have some merit. I've been playing Mechwarrior since 2, and played the Mechcommander games as well. I've kept up with the tabletop but never really been a player of it. I just love Battletech. I've been playing MWO since closed beta, and consider myself pretty good at it. I've played a couple of matches now, so I think its time to offer my feedback and use the community as a sounding board for it.

(Because this is the internet and "pics or it didn't happen", here is my profile.)
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Ok with that out of the way I'll start on what I think are the biggest problems with the game so far. This is not going to be a rant. It is constructive feedback, and I don't need rants as responses. If you can't debate in a logical and mature fashion please don't reply.

1. Bugs (go figure) Right now the biggest issue is bugs. Interestingly I have had relatively few, but I know from keeping up with the forums, albeit posting little, that I am in the minority. I only suffer from texture dropping and the host of minimap issues. However the minimap issues I suffer from have not been fixed since closed beta. Minimap missing, minimap rainbow, minimap un-moving, minimap displaying things super tiny. My favorite bug that isn't a crash, is the total missing hud bug. Not much fun when I don't have a cross-hair and can't tell who is on my team. They did fix, to my joy, the constant crashing and disconnects for me. They also fixed the yellow screen bug. It concerns me though that so many bugs have persisted for so long, and a few new ones were introduced with the latest patch.

2. Balance This is a big one because it contains several parts.

A) First part is missiles. The hotfix rollback on damage was followed up with a post asking us to feel it out. Well I've felt it out and they are now under-powered. LRM's are pretty far under where they have been for a long time. I miss the days when I could one-shot an awesome with an lrm60, but that is simply overpowered. They feel to me between 20-40% under where they should be, which ironically would put them at about... 1 damage. SRM's don't feel quite as bad but are still under what they should be doing. I'd say 10-20% to low to be justified.

B.) Ballistics. Right now the LBX and the AC10 are just horrible. Now, I have a Jager that gets great damage and has good rounds with 2LBX and 2SRM6. But I know that when I'm point blank hitting an unarmored mech in his core with them and barely changing the color (rather than strait up killing it) that something needs to be done. Ammo types seem to a popular consensus and I agree with them. The AC10 might benefit from a CDR. Right now two AC5 outperform a 10 by light-years and dropping the AC10's CD might fix this and make it useful again.
Then there is the AC20... Oh boy... The AC20 is actually perfect right now. The weapon is right where it should be, but it's also horribly imbalanced. Cat's and Jager's should only be allowed 1 of these weapons if any. The Akimbo Cat and Jagers are ruining a good portion of this game. Look, it doesn't work in the fluff, and it shouldn't work here. Cat's don't have room in the side torso's to equip them. Jager's arms should be immobile to equip them. They have caused a trend in players to use these builds to the exclusion of all others and they are causing a lot of problems for the community. Are they overpowered, yes and no. They cockpit in a single shot, which is horrible, and they core you in 2-5 depending on your build. They are almost impossible to successfully shut down if you don't have range on them. They also have a tendency to one shot the legs on scouts which ruins their games. On the other hand they screw your team out of a more versatile mech. That said, this should not have been allowed to continue as long as it has.

C) Energy weapons - (Heat sinks) - Energy weapons as they are, are fine. They work exactly as intended and I feel are perfectly balanced. They do feel under powered compared to ballistics but they require no ammo or travel time so I can let it go. They do however highlight that the heatsinks in the game are still broken. DHS and SHS are both still not operating at levels that are sufficient. The clan weaponry will be completely destroyed by the current state of heatsinks. I think an great way to fix this issue is by nerfing alpha damage. Create an exponential increase in the amount of heating firing multiple weapons at the same time cause. This would bring dps back into the game and stop the alpha lunacy. I deal with the heat well, because I'm used to it and I make good builds for the current system. New players are completely destroyed and put off by it, and I know many who have already quit because of it.

3. Mechlab A lot of you will wonder why I even bring this up. The reason is simple, the arm on Raven is the same size as the arm on a Stalker. What's worse is that it's bigger by two slots than the arm on an Atlas because the poor Atlas had the misfortune of having real arms and hands which can't be used. Perhaps you feel that is a sufficient trade for lateral movement, but the size difference is preposterous. This exact problem is the reason the tiny machine gun slots on a catapult can slot an AC20, but the arms on anything with hands gets screwed. Just take a casual glance at the pod on a hunchback or the side mount on an Atlas and then back at the Catapult and tell me you can squeeze more than an engine and some machine guns in there. You need some system to adjust the amount of space mechs have to work with, and the amount a weight a limb can hold.

4. Miscellaneous other concerns. The above are my three biggest concerns, but here I'll toss in other things that worry me or are worth mentioning.

1. New content - I think they are actually getting new content out at a reasonable pace. People complain about new maps but honestly, a lot of work goes into them and they are putting them out pretty quick. I'd like to see River city about half as much but with the new vision modes the map is more tolerable. The Heavy Metal launching before the stock builds is a little odd, but I'm not going to cry havoc over it.

2. Matchmaking - This deserves to be a point above but I can't offer anything constructive. It sucks, and I hate it... Watching 6 members of your lance run off to get Kappa on Tourmaline while the rest of the map gets capped is just infuriating. I'm not sure what the elo ranking is doing, but on average at least 4 people on my team act like they have never played a game in their life. I'm dropping consistently with trial mechs and I can't understand why. I feel bad for the trials on the other side because it's like free kills for me, and that's not even remotely fair.

3. PGI - This one is a hot button issue, but I think a lot of people will agree with me on this. First, we can see the duck, we can smell the duck, and even hear the duck, so it must be a duck. This may be called a beta, but it really isn't. So that excuses nothing in my book. The minute you take my money for a product you are accountable to me for delivering on that product. (For those of you who want to mince words, please take an economics class. Because it's digital and f2p does not keep it from being a product or an economic investment on the part of the buyer.) I DO NOT​ think PGI is doing a bad job. I don't think its a great job either. But I have no hatred toward them or spite. I think they have a few pretty glaring issues that need fixing immediately, but so far I have not been overly disappointed. I just want them to be straight with me, and take a little bit more care with the license they are using.

So these are some of my thoughts. I think PGI takes too much flack for most of the issues out there, but I feel for some of the really angry people for some of the bugs that still have not been fixed and some of the balancing issues that have outstayed their welcome. I'd appreciate any constructive feedback you guys have on any of these points.

Edited by Prathios, 04 April 2013 - 11:17 PM.


#2 Scratx

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:09 PM

Oookay...

A) Agreed missiles need a buff, but I'd rather the base problem is fixed first, then damage gets balanced. The fix is temporary, after all.

:P Agreed on AC/10 and LB10X... Completely disagreed on the akimbo Jagers and Catapults. Especially on Catapults, actually. In fact, your main argument reeks of "Not that dead horse again!!" as you use the same, discredited argument a lot of people threw... "There's no room on the side torsos for that gun!" ... there's 12 critical slots there to be used and a bloody hardpoint. It fits, period. Plus, now we can even see the damned guns on the 3D model, in case you didn't notice... (and am I the only one that likes to kill those jagers and catapults at range? I _have_ killed several already. And if they got close to you, especially the catapults, then they're playing the game well and shouldn't be punished for it. They're SLOW, dammit. Even the Jaeger is slow with that kind of loadout, despite being able to use XL, unlike the catapult)

C) Clan weaponry should be mostly fine. Hell, if the sinks are buffed considerably, clan mechs will be unstoppable. Just look at the Nova. Twelve extended range medium lasers for an alpha of 84 damage at large laser range. You want that build to be able to alpha, then shoot a smaller burst quickly afterwards to finish off anything it didn't brutally murder on the first shot??? Jesus, I'd neither want nor need any other mech, just put me in a Nova and I'll kill entire spheroid teams...

Mechlab) You talking about the fact a Commando has as many critical slots as an Atlas? Chalk it to space magic, it's a battletech mechanic that isn't changing.

4.3) Yeah, they do need to fix some glaring issues like a complete lack of a playable tutorial. And they wonder why they can't catch new players?

#3 Prathios

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:34 PM

I actually addressed what you said in point C already with the possibility of increasing alpha strike heat increase. As for the dual AC20, if it was a dead horse, they would be out of the game already. My arguments would be discredited if you were not pointing to the problem for justification that it is correct. The only reason anyone defends these builds is if they like playing with cheese. I'm sorry but I can't see any reason to defend it other than, it gets you kills so you like it.

#4 Kiiyor

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:37 PM

I don't have a problem with the ac20 Yagers, their profile means killing them isn't as big an issue. AC20 cats on the other hand can take a heck of a beating if they don't sit still long enough to allow you to explode their fat faces. Their lack of speed compared to an ac20 Yager is a convenient drawback though.

The trouble is not seeing them. If they get all over you without you noticing, there's a good chance they'll pop you.

Each time I've met them face to face though, I've stood a good chance of nailing them.

#5 jeffsw6

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:40 PM

I think working in-game VOIP is a more important priority than anything else, including bugs.

Better communication from PGI to players would also be nice.

#6 Donnie Silveray

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:47 PM

I do agree, I cannot stand Boomcats or Bamgermechs as it feels like a cheap tactic. But PGI has gone on record that they are to be kept in. I suppose the fact that they are essentially gimping their mechs for anything but close range burst damage is a sort of tradeoff. I have killed MANY of those kinds of mechs in the past, even in brawls... in my Yen Lo Wang... with 1 AC20 to their two :P . I do accept that the AC10 feels a tad off. I'm going to be experimenting with my new Cataphract on how it works with other weapons. The AC20 does feel rather..... spot on. The thing bloody stings and feels like a good equalizer to popping Assaults or (with skill) showing Lights who's boss.

#7 MadPanda

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:00 PM

View PostPrathios, on 04 April 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

The only reason anyone defends these builds is if they like playing with cheese. I'm sorry but I can't see any reason to defend it other than, it gets you kills so you like it.


A fun build that gets you kills, isn't that what every build should be? Weird argument to use against it. Oh right, it's "cheese", I really hate that word. Make a real argument instead of just one word.

#8 Product9

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:01 PM

View PostPrathios, on 04 April 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

This may be called a beta, but it really isn't. So that excuses nothing in my book. The minute you take my money for a product you are accountable to me for delivering on that product.


100% agreed. Nowadays, a company can update their game through its useful life thanks to online distribution. The word beta in this context MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It's a product, I paid money into it, thus it is out of its testing phase. What's to keep them from calling it a beta forever?


View PostMadPanda, on 04 April 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

A fun build that gets you kills, isn't that what every build should be? Weird argument to use against it. Oh right, it's "cheese", I really hate that word. Make a real argument instead of just one word.


The point of balance in a game that is all about customization is to keep players from all using the same exact build. When you see several instances of a single mech variant, configured exactly the same every single match, then there is a problem and it should be fixed.

Edited by Product9, 04 April 2013 - 09:03 PM.


#9 Prathios

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:53 PM

View PostMadPanda, on 04 April 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:


A fun build that gets you kills, isn't that what every build should be? Weird argument to use against it. Oh right, it's "cheese", I really hate that word. Make a real argument instead of just one word.


I don't think it's particularly fun to walk around a corner and have my cockpit blown out in one shot. I don't think it's fun for anyone to die with their entire mech intact because their cockpit got destroyed in a single round. That, is the definition of a cheese build. It also flies in the face of the Battletech universe. This is why PGI should respect its property more.

#10 MadPanda

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostPrathios, on 04 April 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:


I don't think it's particularly fun to walk around a corner and have my cockpit blown out in one shot. I don't think it's fun for anyone to die with their entire mech intact because their cockpit got destroyed in a single round. That, is the definition of a cheese build. It also flies in the face of the Battletech universe. This is why PGI should respect its property more.


You are exaggerating. Headshots don't happen so often. Any headshot made on a moving target is 95% luck.

#11 Prathios

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

View PostMadPanda, on 04 April 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:


You are exaggerating. Headshots don't happen so often. Any headshot made on a moving target is 95% luck.


So because you don't think it's a problem it isn't? It has happened to me 4 games in a row. In an Atlas no less. It ruins the game for me.

#12 Pihoqahiak

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:10 PM

View PostPrathios, on 04 April 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

The clan weaponry will be completely destroyed by the current state of heatsinks.


I doubt Clan weaponry will be affected as much as many people think they will. They'll be able to carry a minimum of 3 more double heat sinks due to the Clan double heat sinks only occupying 2 critical locations instead of 3. That will be a very noticeable difference for several builds.

#13 MadPanda

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:13 PM

View PostPrathios, on 04 April 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:


So because you don't think it's a problem it isn't? It has happened to me 4 games in a row. In an Atlas no less. It ruins the game for me.


Well if you wanna make it personal then let me throw it back at you; you think its a problem so it is?

#14 Prathios

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostMadPanda, on 04 April 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:


Well if you wanna make it personal then let me throw it back at you; you think its a problem so it is?


You made a statistic up to back your argument. By saying it's not that common you agreed with me that cockpiting is an issue with the build. I literally just played a match with no less than four ac20 jagers and 1 ac20 cat. Three of my team got cockpited. The rest of us got cored in one hit each. Game lasted maybe, maybe 4 minutes. I can't tell you how much fun I had. This build is a problem, and it bothers me so many people defend it so much. Would the game really be so much less fun if you couldn't ac20 boat? I mean, it tells me half of what I need to know about if it's broken that 60% of the Jagers and k2's I see are ac20 builds. If I see a Jager or a K2 I know what build they have without having to see it shoot... It's an epidemic.

#15 KinLuu

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostPrathios, on 04 April 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:


I don't think it's particularly fun to walk around a corner and have my cockpit blown out in one shot. I don't think it's fun for anyone to die with their entire mech intact because their cockpit got destroyed in a single round. That, is the definition of a cheese build. It also flies in the face of the Battletech universe. This is why PGI should respect its property more.


So... You want PGI to be more true to the BT IP, but you want them to change the critical slot system of TT?

You Sir, are a flip-flop.

#16 Utilyan

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:27 PM

I think when you bought MC.......you bought MC.....MC is the product. Delivered 100% what you paid for. :P

Ever heard of the game monopoly?, its a game just like this is......A GAME. I can Legally sell you hundreds in FUNNY money for thousands of dollars. Who would buy funny money with real money? :D

The rest is entertainment........Mechwarrior land could have a pony drought. All the MC's magically disapears.

The mech gods farted and you could end up with millions of MC. Thats why you don't have a title or mech note......even the idea of "ownership" is game design, Jabba the hutt might own all mechs according to lore.

You never bought a mech.........you bought MC.

They can even put back your MC, lock you from buying anything.......and guess what they 100% delivered......your mc is right there.


"First, we can see the duck, we can smell the duck, and even hear the duck, so it must be a duck. This may be called a beta, but it really isn't."


So if looks like half-a-game, smells like half-a-game, and sounds like half-a-game, THEN it can't be BETA..... :P

#17 Prathios

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:39 PM

View PostKinLuu, on 04 April 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:


So... You want PGI to be more true to the BT IP, but you want them to change the critical slot system of TT?

You Sir, are a flip-flop.


I'm a flip flop because I think the model of Catapult that House Kurita designed to be able to mount PPC's got bastardized by this community to have dual AC20's where it's supposed to have machine guns? Those ballistic mounts are for machine guns. And previous Mechwarrior games did change the critical slot system for better or worse. Please find yourself a less asinine personal attack for an argument.

#18 aniviron

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:46 PM

View PostScratx, on 04 April 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

C) Clan weaponry should be mostly fine. Hell, if the sinks are buffed considerably, clan mechs will be unstoppable. Just look at the Nova. Twelve extended range medium lasers for an alpha of 84 damage at large laser range. You want that build to be able to alpha, then shoot a smaller burst quickly afterwards to finish off anything it didn't brutally murder on the first shot??? Jesus, I'd neither want nor need any other mech, just put me in a Nova and I'll kill entire spheroid teams...


As someone who has beaten the entire MW2 campaign with just a primary config Nova, yes please. HBK-4P is pretty amazing for 50 tons right now, but the Nova is better than it in every single regard, but half the size.

#19 SneakyNZ

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:48 PM

I agree completely with original poster.

Especially on the mega damage builds - This game would be much better without dual ac20 builds (Possibly gauss as well for that matter), it's just not fun. This is coming from someone who has tried it out a bit, it's a little fun at first until you realise you are screwing your team of versatility and being on the receiving end is just plain enraging.

Same goes for PPC4-6x, LRM boating and SRM boating (Pre nerf), poptarting - anything cheese really.

#20 LordDante

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:55 PM

View PostPrathios, on 04 April 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:


So because you don't think it's a problem it isn't? It has happened to me 4 games in a row. In an Atlas no less. It ruins the game for me.


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but ur right about the lrm dammage !when lrms are back it will take some skill to drive the jaeger





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