63 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

We need the apex predators of yesteryear back to give the 3L some competition.

The small lasers need to be unerfed. I believe a while ago diminishing return nerf was put in place to nerf the 6 small laser jenners and the 9 small laser swaybacks.

The Jenner and Swayback need to come back again. Swayback won't be as strong because there is still the engine nerf.
The jenner is a dedicated damage mech. while the ECM raven is supposed to be a scout/support mech.

there is no reason why the Jenner should be weaker than the 3L.

Buff small lasers back to the golden age of Jenners and Swaybacks. We need some 3L hunters back.

Edited by Tennex, 06 April 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Completely disagree.

Want to NERF the 3L?
Make NARC and it's other core components useful.

[skullman86]

Roadbeer, on 06 April 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Completely disagree.

Want to NERF the 3L?
Make NARC and it's other core components useful.

Also lower its base module slot number to 2 and hit it with a nerf stick when the chassis gets its quirks.

[Tennex]

by bringing back the apex preditors of yesteryear. you will be suprised how effective it is to nerf the 3L


the 3L should not be directly nerfed. it was never an issue befrore ECM. meaning the 3L itself is isn't inherently OP

Edited by Tennex, 06 April 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Roadbeer]

skullman86, on 06 April 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Also lower its base module slot number to 2 and hit it with a nerf stick when the chassis gets its quirks.

Don't necessarily agree, once you implement the other components that are SUPPOSED to work on the 3L, those module slots add to it's functionality, just like the DDC. Both of those chassis are to have a VERY niche role on the battlefield, but without a robust IW/RW system in game, they get to be exploited as the ubah model.

Edited by Roadbeer, 06 April 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Zyllos]

Roadbeer, on 06 April 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Completely disagree.

Want to NERF the 3L?
Make NARC and it's other core components useful.

That really won't do anything against the 3L.

BUT, if they made the TAG/NARC slots their own equipment slot, then the 3L would lose a missile and laser slot, which would balance out the mech greatly.

Really, all ECM equipable mechs need to be inferior with their weapon loadouts compared to other variants of the same chassis. ECM is a scouting tool...not a weapon like TAG/NARC.

Then buff NARC along with bringing ECM back to normal, would give meaning to having NARC/TAG slots.

NARC should be the most powerful support equipment, allowing for non-LOS targeting, more accuracy, faster lockon speed, and lasting a long time. But is countered by ECM.

TAG should be a spotting tool, but providing much more accuracy and faster lockon speed than NARC. It can never be countered by ECM.

Edited by Zyllos, 06 April 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Zyllos, on 06 April 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

That really won't do anything against the 3L.

BUT, if they made the TAG/NARC slots their own equipment slot, then the 3L would lose a missile and laser slot, which would balance out the mech greatly.

Really, all ECM equipable mechs need to be inferior with their weapon loadouts compared to other variants of the same chassis. ECM is a scouting tool...not a weapon like TAG/NARC.

I didn't say AGAINST the 3L, look at the stock variant and what it has on it, against what it's bastardized into because that equipment is fairly useless at the moment.

[Inyc]

Tennex, on 06 April 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

The Jenner and Swayback need to come back again. Swayback won't be as strong because there is still the engine nerf.
The jenner is a dedicated damage mech.

The state rewind and fixes to netcode will also prevent the Jenner from being as powerful as it used to be. But this should only be done after missiles are unnerfed.

[Tennex]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

The state rewind and fixes to netcode will also prevent the Jenner from being as powerful as it used to be. But this should only be done after missiles are unnerfed.

people always talk about nerfing things. and you think. if everythign went as people wanted wouldn't everything be nerfed? a balance adjustment should be a buff of surrounding things as well.

[skullman86]

Roadbeer, on 06 April 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Don't necessarily agree, once you implement the other components that are SUPPOSED to work on the 3L, those module slots add to it's functionality, just like the DDC. Both of those chassis are to have a VERY niche role on the battlefield, but without a robust IW/RW system in game, they get to be exploited as the ubah model.

I suggested a module nerf because it is capable of carrying all of that support equipment and still able to pack even more with modules, which makes the other variants look gimped. The 4x, for example, has almost no redeemable features, so why is it stuck with 2 base modules if the 3L -when used correctly- is still a better variant?

Improving Narc and BAP would help with the 3L's intended role, but I don't think improving those components alone is going to do it. Players pick the 3L because it has ECM and they can run around killing people with ease -- they aren't using the variant because they love playing support and are just short on options. The only way it (and other ECM carriers) will turn into a support mech is if PGI goes with the dedicated slot/visible friendlies nerf. Once ECM is unable to separate enemy teammates from each other and is easily targeted, ECM carriers will have no choice but to start playing it safe instead of spearheading assaults.

[Pale Jackal]

Tennex, on 06 April 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

The small lasers need to be unerfed. I believe a while ago diminishing return nerf was put in place to nerf the 6 small laser jenners and the 9 small laser swaybacks.

I am pretty sure this diminishing return nerf was never actually implemented. It was considered, but it was never put in place.

Do I think small lasers could use a small buff? Yes. Machine guns could also use a huge buff - it would increase the number of viable light variants.

ECM needs to be broken up into 3 components that take 1.5 tons and 2 crit slots each. I like that they made ECM so game-changing, but mounting ECM is a no-brainer. If you want to be a dedicated scout / team cloaker, you should have to sacrifice something for it.

If you just want to scout, you can mount the "Cloaking Component" - if you want to counter all ECM nearby you can mount the "Counter Component" and if you want to cloak your entire team, you can mount the "Cloaking + Group Cloaking" components (so a minimum of 3 tons and 4 slots, with the option to mount the Counter component).

Edited by Pale Jackal, 06 April 2013 - 10:53 AM.

[Tennex]

Pale Jackal, on 06 April 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

I am pretty sure this diminishing return nerf was never actually implemented. It was considered, but it was never put in place.

Do I think small lasers could use a small buff? Yes. Machine guns could also use a huge buff - it would increase the number of viable light variants.

ECM needs to be broken up into 3 components that take 1.5 tons and 2 crit slots each. I like that they made ECM so game-changing, but mounting ECM is a no-brainer. If you want to be a dedicated scout / team cloaker, you should have to sacrifice something for it.

If you just want to scout, you can mount the "Cloaking Component" - if you want to counter all ECM nearby you can mount the "Counter Component" and if you want to cloak your entire team, you can mount the "Cloaking + Group Cloaking" components (so a minimum of 3 tons and 4 slots, with the option to mount the Counter component).

i'm not sure what happened to the 6small laser jenners then lol. something must have happened for them not to be used anymore.

MG def needs a buff there are no other alternatives on light mechs

Edited by Tennex, 06 April 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[Tor6]

I say we nerf the Raven by giving the Jenner D ECM for 1 week. Then maybe people could see what the -real- problem is.

[Tennex]

Tor6, on 06 April 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

I say we nerf the Raven by giving the Jenner D ECM for 1 week. Then maybe people could see what the -real- problem is.

give all mechs ECM and people will see what the issue is lol.

[Roadbeer]

skullman86, on 06 April 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I suggested a module nerf because it is capable of carrying all of that support equipment and still able to pack even more with modules, which makes the other variants look gimped. The 4x, for example, has almost no redeemable features, so why is it stuck with 2 base modules if the 3L -when used correctly- is still a better variant?

Improving Narc and BAP would help with the 3L's intended role, but I don't think improving those components alone is going to do it. Players pick the 3L because it has ECM and they can run around killing people with ease -- they aren't using the variant because they love playing support and are just short on options. The only way it (and other ECM carriers) will turn into a support mech is if PGI goes with the dedicated slot/visible friendlies nerf. Once ECM is unable to separate enemy teammates from each other and is easily targeted, ECM carriers will have no choice but to start playing it safe instead of spearheading assaults.

Well, that's when you're not looking at the forest for the trees. ECM and by virtue the 3L doesn't need a NERF, IW needs a boost.

When you look at the ECM mechs and say "They're OP", I'm forced to ask why? "Well, because they're invisible, they shield friendly mechs, they're untargetable, etc".

That's not ECMs fault, that is the fault for a lack of effective counters, ergo, the lack of a robust IW.

Once it's all said and done, if ECM, and by default the 3L doesn't become an IW/RW niche choice, it's not the fault of the chassis or the equipment, it's a fundamental flaw with the design of the game.

[MadPanda]

Nerf the 3L by nerfing streaks more. Nobody would complain about it if it didn't have two streak slots, right? Right. So make streaks tonnage to 2.5 instead of the 1.5 which is current. Doesn't make much difference to heavier mech builds, but it makes the light mechs like the 3L consider twice if they want to give up speed or armor for streaks.

[Zylo]

The problem is the SSRM2, not ECM and certainly not the Raven 3L. I'm sure most here remember which mech was the source of complaints pre-ECM - the streak cat A1.

[Roadbeer]

OMGZ

NERF NOTHING, FIX EVERYTHING!

[Lucian Nostra]

It would also help if NARC became just an item like AMS and didn't required a launcher slot. Therefore the 3L would lose it's 2nd launcher.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 06 April 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Lucian Nostra, on 06 April 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

It would also help if NARC became just an item like AMS and didn't required a launcher slot. Therefore the 3L would lose it's 2nd launcher.

You mean the second launcher that is supposed to be used for NARC? The system that's underwhelming, the reason there is only one tube for that missile slot?

Is that the launcher you're talking about removing?