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WoT tiers for MWO?


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#21 Reitar

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:13 AM

View PostPhaid Knott, on 03 June 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

One of the nice balancing acts done by WoT was how you earn Exp/Credits in game. Basically you get extra exp/credits by detecting/damaging higher tier tanks. There are 10 tiers of tanks with the break even point at about Tier 7.

No, you get overall more credits for obliterating lesser tier tanks. In theory you can get more credits with a sherman, but that 450 hitpoint buffer and 70mm of armor will not save you should one 122mm shell with 175mm pen and 390 damage...one shot cripples the sherman and the next just puts it down, lets not forget that a less pen gun on a sherman can bounce more often then that 122mm against the sherman. Really, its harder to make more credits since the odds of survival are lower (again, a sherman with 450 hitpoints vs an IS-3 or Lowe with 1500...not so much in favor for the sherman if it penns or HE against the IS-3/Lowe since even a newb in tier 8 has that extra safety net in the hitpoint buffer and armor)

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On FTP(WoT) you need to play T5-6 tanks to earn money, you then "dip your toe" into the upper tiers (as these matches can loose you money). So players keep a number of tanks around to play T10 tanks.

Overall this gives a nice mix of tiers in the matches and stops everyone grinding to T10 and getting bored (ie you are never at the top of the tree 100% of the time).

I laugh at these two lines. 9/10 matches drop my tier 5/6/7 in with tier 8/9/10 often...to often for me to care and all I see are tier 8+ the majority of the time as the match maker is saturated with tier 8-10 tanks (its sighly better with the KV-2 change, but still to often for me to enjoy a tier 6 tank match that doesn't have at least 5 tier 8+ in it). Its not that I don't want to be on the top all the time, I just don't want to be middle weighted or on the bottom facing tier 8+ nearly all damn day in a crappy sluggish tank that even with 100mm of armor and 800ish hitpoints...those 260 pen 400+ damage shells just go right through me every time.

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If this model is followed, then pilots will work their way up to Mediums/Heavies and will have to keep using then to fund an assault class mech (with lights still being used for their scouting ability). This should stop everyone all appearing in Assault classes all the time. HOWEVER with the pilot skills earned by players (assuming some are assault specific), this drops a spanner in the works.

Except lights make terrible scouts...because all you have to do is lead the target, click the mouse button, his armor is penned, and he is pretty much dead. There are great scout players, but the mechanic is terrible since if two tanks stationary 100m apart can't see each other and the scout starts to move making himselve visible and lights himself up for incomming fire but nothing can force the other tank to move unless he is restless. End result, the guy who isn't moving still has the upper hand for a split second.

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Dunno how you would feel about this one, I like the mix "mandated" by the above model, but other players might not like the idea they can't play an assault mech 100% of the time.

I prefer to penn and damage my own targets instead of relying on my team, I still dislike hanging my *** on the line and have to rely on other random dudes to kill something while I only get 50% of the generated exp with a high chance to die in the process. Just the other day, managed to sneak across half the field of campinovka, plop behind a bush, light a KV, and like 5 tanks can only get it down to 25% percent of its hitpoints since they were all terrible shots...match ends in a fail, I die, and get 53 experience for being exposed to high amounts of danger should someone of seen me before I tried to just blitz to the other side of the map.

#22 Canas

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:13 AM

View PostPhaid Knott, on 03 June 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

One of the nice balancing acts done by WoT was how you earn Exp/Credits in game. Basically you get extra exp/credits by detecting/damaging higher tier tanks. There are 10 tiers of tanks with the break even point at about Tier 7.

On FTP(WoT) you need to play T5-6 tanks to earn money, you then "dip your toe" into the upper tiers (as these matches can loose you money). So players keep a number of tanks around to play T10 tanks.

On "premium" (ie you pay a monthly sub) you can effectively play at T9 without loosing money.

Overall this gives a nice mix of tiers in the matches and stops everyone grinding to T10 and getting bored (ie you are never at the top of the tree 100% of the time).

If this model is followed, then pilots will work their way up to Mediums/Heavies and will have to keep using then to fund an assault class mech (with lights still being used for their scouting ability). This should stop everyone all appearing in Assault classes all the time. HOWEVER with the pilot skills earned by players (assuming some are assault specific), this drops a spanner in the works.

Dunno how you would feel about this one, I like the mix "mandated" by the above model, but other players might not like the idea they can't play an assault mech 100% of the time.

No thanks

#23 pursang

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:14 AM

Oh hell naw.

#24 Lagavulin

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:16 AM

I don't play WoT anymore, but I'm trying to wrap my head around why you'd need this sort of system you are all talking about. I don't see these hordes of atlas's running about Lyran scouting ( that's a good term, I'm going to start using that in day-to-day), simply because a tactic will be created that negates the advantage of said assaults. Assault mechs aren't the be all and the end all, and anyone that thinks it is can say hello to Mr. NARC and Senor Artemis IV aka targeting laser.

#25 Roland

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:26 AM

The tiers aspect of WoT was one of its worst aspects, for a few reasons.

First, the fact that high tier tanks were literally invinciple to low tier tanks, was garbage. Any tank should be able to damage any other tank, if they get in a good shot. If I put my cannon into your tread and pull the trigger, that tread should be destroyed, regardless of what tank you're driving. But WoT didn't do this, and thus introduced points in the gameplay where you were guaranteed to lose against another tank, because you could do no damage at all to them.

Second, it required you to play through tanks which you had no intention of playing, just to get to the tanks you wanted. This, again, was crap. I still remember playing through the freaking KV tank.. that was pretty much the opposite of fun.

There's no reason for any of that stuff in MWO. The longevity of a mechwarrior game comes from solid tactical gameplay, and playing against intelligent opponents. It's not about grinding.

#26 KC Spaz

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:35 AM

A tier system for MWO simply won't work, at least, not the way we are all thinking of WoT style tiers. I'm more hoping for something like various types of PUG matchmaking. Maybe the matchmaking will tier up instead of our machines. One set could restrict a team of 12 to only weighing 450 tons, resulting in mostly lights with a few mediums to be anchor points. next tier could be a team of 12 for around 600-700 tons, mixing lights, mediums and a few heavies.... so on and so forth. This is what i would like to see.

#27 Orion Pirate

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:42 AM

I forgot to say it earlier...

No. No Thank you. No way would I ever want this.

P.S. To the OP, please look at how League of Legends works as a FTP model... :rolleyes:

#28 Oswin Aurelius

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:49 AM

The only place Tiers belong in Mechwarrior is whenever they come out with Solaris, and even then, it should only group together weight classes of mechs that WANT to fight the same tier.

#29 SwordofLight

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:51 AM

Terrible idea considering all the QQ thats associated with the tiering system in WoT. Now, you put my KV-2 in pretty much every battle with tier 10s like the E-100, and its broken - but I'm still going to accept the challenge, and I've had games where I've owned as a low tier. This is especially true when you look at a vehicle like the Marder II, which I dont think I've ever seen the top of the MM. Yet I get Top Gun awards and several Halonen medals for slaughtering higher tier tanks.

No, its not that the system is broken - its that to many players want an easy button, and whine and moan about how unfair it is that they're not precisely matched with their opposition. What they actually mean is 'why am I not always the best tank on the field?' and resent having to fight for a victory.

-Don

#30 MadBoris

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:52 AM

After about tier 3 I started noticing I wanted to grind through matches faster because some of the costs to research were going to take hundreds of games. How unfair to the team wanting to have fun.

It was actually the matches that were supposed to be the fun of the game, and it was until the grind aspect hit me, acquiring carrots isn't what I came to do but subtly they got me doing it.

Then I came to find, I really didn't want to go too far aboveT3,4 anyway, for the most fun games.

WOT model tries to convince you, you need to grind, only to get a new craptastic tank now being blown up by even some higher tier enemies your newly matched with now. It's a convenience/inconvenience model, the more inconvenience they can subtly place on you the more willing you may be to make a purchase for "convenience", to avoid the crap.

Obviously one is supposed to come to the obvious conclusion, grind or buy your way to T10 is the solution, only to find it's very costly to to maintain T10, again taking away from the fun of just tanking.

I just wanted to play war with tanks on a battlefield, it did that great, then their F2P model hits you. I still have a variety of tanks, but almost everytime I get into a match where I am 4,5 tiers underpowered, it changes the game play drastically compared to more evenly matched Tiers. I know why they put the 5 tier distinction in the matchmaker, to make people want to grind more, buy new tanks/weapons, obviously.

Edited by MadBoris, 03 June 2012 - 08:58 AM.


#31 Oswin Aurelius

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:55 AM

View PostSwordofLight, on 03 June 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

No, its not that the system is broken - its that to many players want an easy button, and whine and moan about how unfair it is that they're not precisely matched with their opposition. What they actually mean is 'why am I not always the best tank on the field?' and resent having to fight for a victory.

The system is broken. It matches players against tanks that they literally cannot defeat. Imagine it if you were in a Jenner that had no weapons, or if some mechs had armor that could completely stop damage from certain weapons. How fun would it be to fight anything?

#32 Adrienne Vorton

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:55 AM

keep WoT out of MWO.... thats all i gonna say :rolleyes:

#33 Weird Beard

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:56 AM

No no no no no PLEASE no! WoT is a bad system designed by an inexperienced game company. It is rife with game breaking balance issues. It is the sort of game that was a great idea with so much potential but will not have any true staying power because of the business model and tier system.

If I was to create a game I would look to ones that have been around for years and still have a good player base. The best example to me would be EVE:
-Everything in a game should be purchasable with in-game currency.
-PLEX system allows for players to spend real money on the game to get either game time or currency while allowing others to play for free if they're willing to put the time in to buy PLEXs with (genius idea here) in-game currency.
CCPs biggest mistake so far was the creation of the AUR system which almost cost them a substantial portion of their steady player base.

The big difference between EVE and MWO is the fact that you should get access (providing you have the cash) to all the mechs from the start (In EVE there is a long skill progression to get bigger badder ships). It is a false assumption that everyone will take assault mechs if the game has been designed as Pirahna Games has said.

So a big NO NO NO to getting ideas from WoT. Don't break my Battletech!

#34 Hypernaut

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:58 AM

I play WoT and it enrages me on a regular basis because of so many inconsistencies (e.g. line of sight mechanics just plainly sucks; TDs soft hull while there is almost no terrain to use them as they were supposed to), implausibilties (T9 tank hitting a T3 or T4 but with no damage at all maybe detracking if you got lucky), matchmaking sucks, interface sucks, lousy CPU performance, moronic teams with triggerhappy iditiots who don't understand that the real rewards come from winning and not from kill steals if you lose anyway, endless grinding with no gain, scouting aint much worth and is badly implemented as far as mechanics go etc. etc. etc.

Anyways, Weight ain't no good for matchmaking either in MWO, if anything then good old Battle Value System is the fairest balancing IMO. So there is no need at all for tiers.
Scouting should be rewarded each time you uncover a hidden unit, not only the first time. If you are in a random battle then after first contact you still have a purpose AND a reward.
Also a few years back EA had a MMO planned called Battletech 3025 but unfortunately they axed it. The interesting thing was that there were different attacks zones on the IS map corresponding to the weight classes of mechs. meaning, the were low tier provinces, and these could only be conqeured with light mechs. the higher the zone tier was the higher the weight class of the mechs were allowed to fight in. So if u wanted you could support a assault lance with your scout or actually could fight "on your own" because for many zones light mechs were mandatory needed. This was really a good system and worked fine. (WoT clanwars map system is really ****** too IMO)

#35 Arnie1808

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:03 AM

View PostToothman, on 03 June 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

You should bounce off a T-34 frequently. Thats how that tank stood up do the german doorstoppers.


So your saying that this shell shouldn't penetrate a t-34 coz of its sloped armour?
Posted Image

:( :D :rolleyes:

#36 Der Kopfsammler

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:03 AM

The MWO Devs said that there wont be a mech "stronger" than another or a mech "more usefull" than other in one of their interviews... so just that erases that possibility.

Which is a good thing i guess btw... Eveyone that played WoT knows the nightmare it is for low tiers to find a higher tier ahead of him...

Its as bad as "vini... vidi... ahh ****... mori..." xD

#37 Oswin Aurelius

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:05 AM

View PostHypernaut, on 03 June 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

The interesting thing was that there were different attacks zones on the IS map corresponding to the weight classes of mechs. meaning, the were low tier provinces, and these could only be conqeured with light mechs. the higher the zone tier was the higher the weight class of the mechs were allowed to fight in.


No. Save this for Solaris, or at most specific matchmaking options, but do not make it a REQUIREMENT for anything.

#38 Arnie1808

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:16 AM

Unless you buy a premium account you will find it VERY hard to make any progress in WoT when at a higher tier and even with a Premium account I still think they are stingy considering the price you pay and what you actually get :(

I hope that MWO isn't as tight arsed when it comes to dishing out the C-bills as WoT is with its Credits, I don't mean they have to go mad and give you bucket loads but at least make it feel like if you do well you will get a decent reward :rolleyes:

#39 Adrienne Vorton

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:18 AM

View PostAdrienne Vorton, on 03 June 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

keep WoT out of MWO.... thats all i gonna say :rolleyes:

*coughs* :(

#40 Haroldwolf

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:19 AM

Please erase WoT from our vocabulary!! WoT is what happens when devs drink too much Vodka!





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