27 replies to this topic

[JimTheRat]

It just ocurred to me that I've dropped more money on MWO than I have virtually any other free to play game out there.

... I think part of this might be because I don't feel like I have to.

I mean, usually, it feels like if I don't spend money I won't get a competitive advantage, so naturally it doesn't really matter if I spend money, because some other guy will always spend more, therefore spending money makes no sense at all in terms of being able to enjoy the game more.

But MWO? Other than premium time, the stuff to spend money on is almost all like collectibles and useful things that I don't need in order to play well but can get if I think they're fun, like the new cockpit-statues (one of which I intend to get next time I reward myself) or a hero mech, or even a regular mech variant if I don't feel like grinding out the C-bills for it.

And yet, and yet, somehow this would all come crashing down for me if things took an actual pay-2-win course. I don't want to have my MC purchases turn into some kind of competetive issue. I want to blow ten bucks on paint and mechs because looking cool is as valid a thing to spend money on in this game as hero mechs, cockpit items, heck, even GXP or the new consumables.

Granted, I think a lot of the prices for things are WAY TOO HIGH, and that does prevent me from spending sometimes when I think I would otherwise, but there are occasional things I like and buy, and the way I'm spending over here versus in something like WoT is interesting, I think.

Anyone else had similar and/or/different experiences?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I spend when there is value. Doesn't matter if it's f2p p2w p2p sos ftw. Whatever.

No value in this game currently so my money goes elsewhere.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 05 April 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

It just ocurred to me that I've dropped more money on MWO than I have virtually any other free to play game out there.

... I think part of this might be because I don't feel like I have to.

This, for me, is the mark of a good free to play game. A game that doesn't make players feel like **** for not being paying customers. This makes players feel like paying is their choice which results in a higher rate of sales because people hate feeling forced to do anything. When people feel forced to do something, resentment is the natural reaction and that's just not good for business.

[Dirkdaring]

I've spent $30 and so far don't see any reason at all to spend more. Need more content!

[KingDerp]

I've played for 5+ months, haven't paid one cent.

TBH I doubt MWO will be much more than what it is right now, if MWO becomes more than
an arena shooter I will happily spend but I'm not buying the koolaid PGI is currently selling...

.

[Grimstein]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 05 April 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I spend when there is value. Doesn't matter if it's f2p p2w p2p sos ftw. Whatever.

No value in this game currently so my money goes elsewhere.

How is there no value, this game is crazy fun. They have put a great product together with lots of potential. For an MMO fps it’s very balanced for this stage in the game considering all the moving pieces and balance is key in pvp. The only real problem is too many variants are worthless.


The devs do great job of not being over reactionary to a small group of forum players that constantly complain about some balance issue that isn’t.



Look at the times they did step in and do a quick fix, LRM SRM clearly broken splash damage. They might have over done it a tad but not by much. About to create a clear pay to win coolant flush, changed it at the last second in response to real thought out feedback.

Edited by Grimstein, 05 April 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Levesque, on 05 April 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

It just ocurred to me that I've dropped more money on MWO than I have virtually any other free to play game out there.

... I think part of this might be because I don't feel like I have to.

I mean, usually, it feels like if I don't spend money I won't get a competitive advantage, so naturally it doesn't really matter if I spend money, because some other guy will always spend more, therefore spending money makes no sense at all in terms of being able to enjoy the game more.

But MWO? Other than premium time, the stuff to spend money on is almost all like collectibles and useful things that I don't need in order to play well but can get if I think they're fun, like the new cockpit-statues (one of which I intend to get next time I reward myself) or a hero mech, or even a regular mech variant if I don't feel like grinding out the C-bills for it.

And yet, and yet, somehow this would all come crashing down for me if things took an actual pay-2-win course. I don't want to have my MC purchases turn into some kind of competetive issue. I want to blow ten bucks on paint and mechs because looking cool is as valid a thing to spend money on in this game as hero mechs, cockpit items, heck, even GXP or the new consumables.

Granted, I think a lot of the prices for things are WAY TOO HIGH, and that does prevent me from spending sometimes when I think I would otherwise, but there are occasional things I like and buy, and the way I'm spending over here versus in something like WoT is interesting, I think.

Anyone else had similar and/or/different experiences?

This is why I am terrified of Mechwarrior Tactics... CCG style with my mechs? My bank/wife will hate me.

[Gregory Owen]

no it does not make me want to spend more, but it does make me want to continue playing.

[Forestal]

TOGSolid, on 05 April 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

This, for me, is the mark of a good free to play game. A game that doesn't make players feel like **** for not being paying customers. This makes players feel like paying is their choice which results in a higher rate of sales because people hate feeling forced to do anything. When people feel forced to do something, resentment is the natural reaction and that's just not good for business.

To use an analogy, it would be like spending some of your own money to dress up (or even ordering some wine/dessert) when someone invites you over for a meal/party-- If the "core experience" was something worth your time to begin with, then you won't really have any qualms about putting in some of your own money to enhance the experience.

Successful free-to-play games do this: the core "gameplay" is so much fun that players actually LOOK OUT for the repeating/changing micro-transactions to spend on-- much like an honoured guest insisting on bringing something to the party-- just so they can increase the "style/troll" meter of their games.


To use an example: Airmech's cosmetics, many of them entirely seasonal, include pets and hats which follow your Airmech around-- and it doesn't bother people that you had Olympic Torches, Mooncakes, Chocolate Bunnies and all manner of inanities, because they are only priced at a couple of bucks and offer minor modifiers (+speed & -damage, etc.)

I am currently very close to getting a Husky pet, cos a dog-on-a-rocket following your Airmech around is just too ridiculous/ cute...

Edited by Forestal, 05 April 2013 - 03:51 PM.

[Shumabot]

I don't play games with pay to win aspects that seriously effect game balance. Pay to win makes me spend nothing. Cosmetic systems tend to get me to spend a lot. I'll likely never pay2notgrind because it feels more like I'm being exploited than when I pay to get something that is otherwise unavailable. I love customization.

Edited by Shumabot, 05 April 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Roflberry Pwncakes]

Somebody has probably already mentioned this, but I'm the type who likes to open his mouth without researching, so here goes....

You all know that little software company called ValvE, right? A few years ago, they made this game collection, and called it the Orange Box. They sold it for dirt cheap, cause those crazy cats seem more concerned with making their customers happy and making some of the most epic bigfuns, rather than concerning themselves with money first and foremost, like some other ****-factories like EA or Activision. Anyway, included with the Orange Box was a fun little game called Team Fortress 2, and someone at ValvE had the idea to sell vanity items, cool and crazy hats to be specific. And not for a whole lot either, usually around $5, but I don't think any item was ever more than $10. They sold weapons too, but if you played the game enough, you would pick up the weapons anyway. They would just drop randomly into a player's inventory. After selling hats and guns for a few months, they looked at the metrics and were astonished to find that they were making money off of it. Not like a 0.01% increase in revenue, but more like a 'Holy **** look at all that cheddar!!!!' kind of increase in revenue. And it wasn't just from the hats, players were spending mad scratch, buying guns that they could have gotten anyway if they would have just trusted in the random number generator to drop it in their inventory. It seems that looking nice is always an incentive for spending money. But more than that it seems that grinding for guns is anti-P2W fun, but when the one you want never drops, the ones you don't want always do, and then you see some scrub running around with the gun that makes you push steel, well there's no bigger incentive to get the checkbook out.

[Daggett]

For me its really easy: The more P2W a game has, the less likely i would play it which leads to no bucks spent by me.

[Shumabot]

Roflberry Pwncakes, on 05 April 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Somebody has probably already mentioned this, but I'm the type who likes to open his mouth without researching, so here goes....

You all know that little software company called ValvE, right? A few years ago, they made this game collection, and called it the Orange Box. They sold it for dirt cheap, cause those crazy cats seem more concerned with making their customers happy and making some of the most epic bigfuns, rather than concerning themselves with money first and foremost, like some other ****-factories like EA or Activision. Anyway, included with the Orange Box was a fun little game called Team Fortress 2, and someone at ValvE had the idea to sell vanity items, cool and crazy hats to be specific. And not for a whole lot either, usually around $5, but I don't think any item was ever more than $10. They sold weapons too, but if you played the game enough, you would pick up the weapons anyway. They would just drop randomly into a player's inventory. After selling hats and guns for a few months, they looked at the metrics and were astonished to find that they were making money off of it. Not like a 0.01% increase in revenue, but more like a 'Holy **** look at all that cheddar!!!!' kind of increase in revenue. And it wasn't just from the hats, players were spending mad scratch, buying guns that they could have gotten anyway if they would have just trusted in the random number generator to drop it in their inventory. It seems that looking nice is always an incentive for spending money. But more than that it seems that grinding for guns is anti-P2W fun, but when the one you want never drops, the ones you don't want always do, and then you see some scrub running around with the gun that makes you push steel, well there's no bigger incentive to get the checkbook out.

Valve makes several billion a year off of steam, TF2 had a titanic built in audience when it went free to play, valve advertised f2p tf2 with millions in direct advertising and it dominated steams front page (which is front page to nearly all computer game players) for months, the TF2 team is like 3 times the size of the MWO team, TF2 is an uncompetitive mess with no pro scene, and valve is taking a loss on Dota doing the exact same thing.

TF2 is a great game and a great way to evangelize taking a game with a large playerbase into f2p, but it's got nothing to do with MWO and none of the lessons learned by it can really translate.

[Mackman]

It's not so much that it being not P2W makes me want to spend more money... it's that if I ever felt like I was at a noticeable disadvantage to people who had paid more than I had, then i'd just quit playing, and PGI would lose any more money I might have spent. I think that's how the majority of the community probably feels as well.

[xhrit]

Gregory Owen, on 05 April 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

no it does not make me want to spend more, but it does make me want to continue playing.

Aye. It does not necessarily make want me to spend more, but it does keep me from wanting to spend less, since I would not spend anything at all if I did not play.

Edited by xhrit, 05 April 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[Roflberry Pwncakes]

Shumabot, on 05 April 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Valve makes several billion a year off of steam, TF2 had a titanic built in audience when it went free to play, valve advertised f2p tf2 with millions in direct advertising and it dominated steams front page (which is front page to nearly all computer game players) for months, the TF2 team is like 3 times the size of the MWO team, TF2 is an uncompetitive mess with no pro scene, and valve is taking a loss on Dota doing the exact same thing.

TF2 is a great game and a great way to evangelize taking a game with a large playerbase into f2p, but it's got nothing to do with MWO and none of the lessons learned by it can really translate.

Fail. You fail to see the point that I was trying to make, that back before the game went F2P, they discovered that individual sales of vanity items and weapon sales with a built in framework that took the P2W factor out, made truckloads of money. The lessons learned from that translate directly into business practices that PGI and IGP are using with MWO.
As an aside...
I don't see what the 'pro scene' has to do with any of the rest of what we're talking about. Counterstrike 2 source is where the 'pro srs bsns' is lol. That didn't make the TF2 crowd any less competitive. I think it's hard for some people (you, for example) to consider a game with cell shaded cartoon models to have a 'pro' player base. Also, the so called TF2 'team' you refer to is a myth. ValvE devs work on what they are into at the time. They code whatever their hearts desire, that way nobody gets burnout from programming a game that they are fed up with. About a year after TF2 dropped, they couldn't get enough dev manpower to get any work done doing any class updates because most of ValvE got hit with zombie fever and were too busy working on Left 4 Dead 2 and couldn't be bothered with TF2. Much of the content that has been released for TF2 in the last year to year and a half has been contributed by aspiring community developers.

Edited by Roflberry Pwncakes, 05 April 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[Shumabot]

Quote

Fail. You fail to see the point that I was trying to make, that back before the game went F2P, they discovered that individual sales of vanity items and weapon sales with a built in framework that took the P2W factor out, made truckloads of money. The lessons learned from that translate directly into business practices that PGI and IGP are using with MWO.

How do they translate, precisely? TF2 wasn't even close to the first game to go F2P, no by a decade, the way it went free to play is totally dissimilar to this games and was hamfisted and kinda dumb (it took over a year before they started doing player made content, these were just experiments by valve to try steam microtransaction integration). The way TF2 went free to play isn't something MWO could do because it requires a gamble, a pre installed gigantic player base, control of steam, and titanic clout in the industry to secure cross platform and even cross industry promotionals.

Quote

As an aside...

Oh boy, time to get lectured by another gold.

Quote

I don't see what the 'pro scene' has to do with any of the rest of what we're talking about. Counterstrike 2 source is where the 'pro srs bsns' is lol. That didn't make the TF2 crowd any less competitive. I think it's hard for some people (you, for example) to consider a game with cell shaded cartoon models to have a 'pro' player base.

It had one before hat fortress, the competitive balance of TF2 was destroyed by their free to play systems. That makes them a questionable example to follow. Your arguments are kinda dumb here, you're losing the thrust of your initial argument and going into the weeds.

Quote

Also, the so called TF2 'team' you refer to is a myth. ValvE devs work on what they are into at the time. They code whatever their hearts desire, that way nobody gets burnout from programming a game that they are fed up with.

You fundamentally have no idea what you're talking about. TF2 has a team, a rather large one. They mostly do system and back end work now, since the artistic load has been moved to the players, but it certainly has a team. You should probably lose the mystified wonderment at valves magic palace, they're a revolutionary company with a lot of unique practices, but they certainly don't have vagrant coders doing whatever they want. They follow an 80/20 rule and give people the time and money to pursue pet projects, but that's not their actual business.

Quote

About a year after TF2 dropped, they couldn't get enough dev manpower to get any work done doing any class updates because most of ValvE got hit with zombie fever and were too busy working on Left 4 Dead 2 and couldn't be bothered with TF2. Much of the content that has been released for TF2 in the last year to year and a half has been contributed by aspiring community developers.

You have a very skewed idea of history. Skewed means wrong in this case.

[anonymous175]

Not selling power is a good thing even though it would increase sales.

Not selling anything worth buying will not increase sales.

Selling stuff worth buying would increase sales.

Worth is subjective but as of right now, nothing crosses my mind.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

Oh boy, time to get lectured by another gold.

Hey, I take offense to that. He's kinda bronze coloured, I'M a gold!

Edited by TOGSolid, 05 April 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Chavette]

Yes.