14 replies to this topic

[jeffsw6]

I just learned that, each time I change a mech from Endo to Standard structure, or install / remove Ferro Armor, I am blowing a bunch of CB. I thought swapping back and forth on the same chassis to experiment with load-outs would not cause me to repeatedly spend CB on the same upgrade!

This person explains how I think it should work much better than I have:

MuKen, on 06 April 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

Agree that sucks. I think it should be that you buy for example "endo-steel for spiders" and now you can freely put that component in any variant of a spider. I mean it sucks when I see someone with a raven-2x or something on my team, and I know that since he's probably just levelling this up for elite, he's probably using SHS and standard internals and armor.

If it worked the way I said, he could buy "endo for ravens", "ferro for ravens", "dhs for ravens", and use those as he levels up each variant, and then put them in his 3l when he's done. There'd be less PUG teams that get randomly gimped because somebody is working on his variants.

From his post in the General forum on the same topic, http://mwomercs.com/...63#entry2195763

[MuKen]

Lol, it has my vote:P

[stjobe]

There's precious few CB sinks as it is, and this one actually has some lore merit. You are, after all, replacing every "bone" in your 'mech's skeleton.

So I vote to keep it as it is.

Edited by stjobe, 06 April 2013 - 01:59 AM.

[MuKen]

There's no in-game economy, it's not like there's some need or any benefit to the gameplay whatsoever in having more c-bill sinks. C-bills are basically just another kind of xp.

Edited by MuKen, 06 April 2013 - 02:07 AM.

[loliza]

MuKen, on 06 April 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

There's no in-game economy, it's not like there's some need or any benefit to the gameplay whatsoever in having more c-bill sinks. C-bills are basically just another kind of xp.

youre wrong about that the cbill sinks do that you cant aquire everything just like that and tbh if you are eliting out mechs i see no problem on spending 350k-800k for endo

also lore wise and realisticly speaking its not doable (comparing cars to ravens): imagine you have 3 cars all toyota 2 of the sameish ground model little difference in bhp and engine size and then you have the last toyota its a raven 3L its build in a completely different way with a MUCH larger engine.

thats your cars now here is what you wanna do : '
you want to buy 1 body kit(ferro) and apply it to all 3 cars
you want to buy 1 new suspension kit (endo)to lower the suspension of all 3 cars
lastly you want to buy 1 new exhaust(DHS) and fit it on your 3 cars

do you get why this is a lame suggestion ?

[MuKen]

loliza, on 06 April 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

also lore wise and realisticly speaking its not doable

It's got nothing to do with realism, it's about good gameplay which always trumps realism. That's why we got rid of RnR. RnR made people play gimped mechs (which hurts their team) to save some bucks (which only helps them). This current system does that too, by encouraging people to play incomplete builds while they grind out variants.

I'm not suggesting this for my own money, I've already ground out the variants for every chassis and have all the builds I want sitting in my mechbays while I stockpile c-bills I don't use and wait for the next interesting chassis to come out. I'm suggesting this because its annoying to see somebody playing some "grinder" variant on my team, and know that he probably didn't put in DHS or anything else a decent build for that variant would need, in order to save himself a couple million c-bills. Meanwhile, he got matched to me based on an ELO score that he got while playing his "real" mechs, so while I have a player who's playing a purposely crappy build, the system is matching the other team up with someone who'll contribute more to his team.

Edited by MuKen, 06 April 2013 - 03:15 AM.

[loliza]

MuKen, on 06 April 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

It's got nothing to do with realism, good gameplay trumps realism. That's why we got rid of RnR. The system as is encourages people to gimp their team while they are grinding variants, and thus should be removed. Again, that is the exact reasoning we got rid of RnR, RnR made people play gimped mechs (which hurts their team) to save some bucks (which only helps them). The current system does that too.

I'm not suggesting this for my own money, I've already ground out the variants for every chassis, have all the builds I want, and all the stuff I need for any side builds I want. I'm suggesting this because its annoying to see somebody playing some variant on my team, and know that he probably didn't put in DHS or anything else a good build for that variant would need, in order to save himself some bucks. Meanwhile, he got matched to me based on an ELO score that he got while playing his "real" mechs, so while I have a player who's playing a purposely crappy build, the system is matching the other team up with someone who'll contribute more to his team.

well now im gonna argue with the undetaking of replacing all armor on a mech prolly no biggie but still a task to be done
then endo-steel i think this is a HUGE upgrade since you swap out the internal structure for more lightweight composits
and double heatsink have u seen those ******** they need bigger sockets thats for sure.

so what im asking is how would you even remotely explain just having to buy 1 for each chassis and then slam it on all variants and i dont hear the complaints from atlas drivers that they need to buy new ac20s for each atlas, hell why not just buy 1 medium laser and u can fit all the lasers u want and what about hero mechs? i bought a x-5 it has ferro/endo/dhs if i bought that 1 i would never need to buy a dhs again for a cicada? this is encouraging pay 2 win.

i seriously hope that there isnt a single soul on pgi´s paylist that spends as much as a fraction of a second looking at this nonsense suggestion

[MuKen]

loliza, on 06 April 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

so what im asking is how would you even remotely explain just having to buy 1 for each chassis and then slam it on all variants

How do you explain removing RnR? How do you explain getting money bonuses for TAGging people before they get hit by LRMs? How do you explain buying ammo to equip, then never having to pay for ammo use again? None of the "economics" of this game comes with an explanation, why do you require one for this?

This suggestion makes the gameplay better, that should be end of discussion.

Quote

hell why not just buy 1 medium laser and u can fit all the lasers u want and what about hero mechs?

Because that doesn't cause the issue that this whole discussion is about (mentioned in both of my posts). Are you going to comment on that issue at some point?

Quote

this is encouraging pay 2 win.

How exactly? Spending MC in that case didn't do anything spending c-bills wouldn't do.

Edited by MuKen, 06 April 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[loliza]

all these features you mention is all pay for 1 get 1, like ammo you pay for a ton you can equip that ton of ammo to 1 mech ONLY,

money magically appearing from tagging has nothing to do with this discussion as tagging isnt a piece of equipment, but the tag laser again is 1 tag laser bought 1 tag laser equippable on 1 mech with a laser HP, but maybe if you were to go on a mercenary mission you would get extra bonus pay for extra bonus intel? i dont know this im not a mercenary, but it makes a little sense if you think about it this way

RnR was removed we all know the tons of reasons why RnR was a bad idea in a fps simulator

the pay2win i mentioned is like in my case i bought x-5 first has all upgrades something you wont get in a standard version this would make the p2win kids scream since you would get all other cicade upgrades with a swing of your credit card hence the p2win

now where this topic fails is when you want to buy 1 thing and equip it on 3 different mechs im sorry i see no logic in this what so ever and when there is 5 mechs in a chassis line like hunch you would get 5 upgrades for the price of 1, some of the other "realistic" features in this game is sketchy at best but this is just pure magic and im sorry i do not think it has place in a mechwarrior game

ps. the game is a mech sim, so dont come say everything is unrealsitic most stuff if u want it to actually makes good sense with a little lore to back it up

[MuKen]

Despite the fact that I've stated it twice and directly asked you to comment on it, you continue to ignore and refuse to comment on or discuss the primary motivation and problem that this suggestion is intended to address: that the current system causes people to bring builds that make them play below their elo and hurt their teams. Until you do, I will not continue discussing with you.

[Deathlike]

I won't only be amenable to lowering costs IF you had purchased BOTH standard and endo on the chassis before. Outside of that, there's really no good reason for doing this change that often. You're putting this into a literal c-bill sinkhole.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 April 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[loliza]

MuKen, on 06 April 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Despite the fact that I've stated it twice and directly asked you to comment on it, you continue to ignore and refuse to comment on or discuss the primary motivation and problem that this suggestion is intended to address: that the current system causes people to bring builds that make them play below their elo and hurt their teams. Until you do, I will not continue discussing with you.

to hell with this keep the suggestion going and see if it ever make it into game, its laughable at best

[Durant Carlyle]

Technically, you should have to pay for each and every change you make to a 'Mech. Want to swap that medium laser for a medium pulse laser? Sure. Just pay the conversion fee. Want to swap back? Sure. You already own the medium laser, but you still have to pay the conversion fee. Want to add armor? Sure. Just pay the fee and we'll get to swapping plates out for you. New engine? Sure. Just pay the fee and we'll get to modifying your existing chassis to have a bigger engine bay.

Thankfully, we don't have to pay all of those fees. We just have one set of main upgrades where the swaps aren't free. Get used to it.

I do not support any idea that makes those main conversions free.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 06 April 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Durant Carlyle, on 06 April 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

Technically, you should have to pay for each and every change you make to a 'Mech. Want to swap that medium laser for a medium pulse laser? Sure. Just pay the conversion fee. Want to swap back? Sure. You already own the medium laser, but you still have to pay the conversion fee. Want to add armor? Sure. Just pay the fee and we'll get to swapping plates out for you. New engine? Sure. Just pay the fee and we'll get to modifying your existing chassis to have a bigger engine bay.

Thankfully, we don't have to pay all of those fees. We just have one set of main upgrades where the swaps aren't free. Get used to it.

I do not support any idea that makes those main conversions free.

I always thought a 10% fee based on the cost of the equipment being added was a reasonable idea. This would only apply for equipment already in the owned inventory, and not on equipment pulled off and back on again. It would represent the time required to do so.

As for the OP. I disagree. The cost of ripping out the internal structure and replacing it is not detrimental. It is a change a player needs to commit to.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 06 April 2013 - 10:39 PM.

[Egomane]

Poll closed!

If you want to redo it, within the rules, outlined in the following thread, please contact me:
http://mwomercs.com/...estion-polling/